009 RTR British trains

[PaulRhB]

Same horse and it rode down again with the train.

[Stevelewis]

Do you know if it was it the same horse pulling the train up the entire line, or did they change over part way to give the beast a rest?

 

According to  'The Ffestiniog Railway  Vol2  Pages  402 onwards.........** 4  horses  were used  for  each  journey  each  train  comprised  25  wagons.+ horse  Dandies,... there  were  various  stabling  locations  along  the  route... up/down trains  were  booked  to  pass each  other  at Tunnel,  Hafod y Lyn & Cae Ednyfed  10 mins  were  allowed  for  the Horse  Change  over  between Up  & Down  Trains....Horses  would  walk  from the  front  of  the  UP train to  the   Horse Dandies in the  rear  of the  Down  Train,   Whilst  the  Horses in the  Down  Train   ( resting  in  the dandies)  would  then  replace  the  Horses removed  from  the  UP  train to  take  the  train onwards  in the  UP direction 

This  process  being repeated at each  passing  point.

 

** To clarify up to  16 horses  would be required for  the  full journey  ie  4  horses  for  each of  the section between horse changing  points.

 

Interesting  reading  in  these  2  volumes  which I  purchased  many  years  ago ( 1986ish from  the  Harbour  Station  Porthmadog)  cost  me  £25 for  the  2  they were   becoming   scarce  volumes  at  that  time!  I had  the  fly  leaves  stamped  with  the  Ffestiniog Rly  stamp

Edited February 3, 2017 by Stevelewis

[Nile]

FOURDEES are producing a limited edition 009 train pack consisting of one of their locos and some coaches and wagons made for them by PECO. See here for details.

http://www.fourdees.co.uk/Limited_Edition_Models.php

 

All that is needed is a PECO brake coach to complete the train. They may commission one in the same livery at a later date.

 

At the bottom of that page you can see the Glyn Valley train pack they have produced exclusively for Rails, again using PECO coaches.

[Edge]

Do you know if it was it the same horse pulling the train up the entire line, or did they change over part way to give the beast a rest?

 

From what I remember, It was actually a couple of horses who would haul the wagons up all the way to the slate quarries from Porthmadog and were then returned with the gravity train. Generally each team of horses would only complete a single round trip in a day.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Edge

[Stevelewis]

From what I remember, It was actually a couple of horses who would haul the wagons up all the way to the slate quarries from Porthmadog and were then returned with the gravity train. Generally each team of horses would only complete a single round trip in a day.

 

If  you  go   back   two or  three posts  on  this  thread  you  will be  able  to  read  how  the actual  system  of  Horse  Haulage  was  worked!!

 

Actually  a  total  of  sixteen  horses  were  used  per   journey  (  4  sets  of  4  as explained in  my 3rd  Feb  post  using  information  from  the  Ffestiniog Railway  volumes   by  James  I  C Boyd)

[cctransuk]

If  you  go   back   two or  three posts  on  this  thread  you  will be  able  to  read  how  the actual  system  of  Horse  Haulage  was  worked!!

 

Actually  a  total  of  sixteen  horses  were  used  per   journey  (  4  sets  of  4  as explained in  my 3rd  Feb  post  using  information  from  the  Ffestiniog Railway  volumes   by  James  I  C Boyd)

 

I'm not so sure that it was as clear-cut as that.

 

The information in the Boyd books may well be correct for the height of the slate traffic on the FR, but the haulage requirements would depend upon the number of slate wagons to be returned to Blaenau Festiniog.

 

In the latter days, it may well have been that a couple of horses would suffice for the limited number of 'returns' arising from the much reduced slate production.

 

As in all things railways, there is the received knowledge of what was supposed to occur or had originally occurred, but the actuality in latter years could be *very* different.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Stevelewis]

Yes  but  reading  several  pages  of  Ffestiniog  information  I have  not  seen  anything  to give    reason to  suppose  that  reduced  'horse power'  was  used!

 

In  any  case  locomotive  haulage  was  in  use  (1863)   long  before  the  slate  industry  declined!.

 

Had  the  slate  industry  been  on  the  decline whilst  Horses  were  still in  use  there  would  have been  little point  in purchasing  locos!

 

Has  to  be  remembered  also  that  Horses  were  not all that  powerful!  Anyone   recalling  the  days  of  horse  drawn  milk  or Beer deliveries  will be  aware  that  one  horse  would  pull a  reasonable  light milk float  for around  2  hours.  Whilst  a  heavier   Beer  Dray  would  require  at  least  2  horses  to  provide  adequate  traction,  so 2  Horses to  haul even  a reduced  load  up  to  BF I think  is  very  unlikely 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Stevelewis

[mcowgill]

A lot of the information in Boyd has to be reconsidered in the light of more recent detailed research.

 

I believe the current understanding is that up trains were short and hauled by 1 or 2 horses.  The formation is very narrow, unlike the back end of a Welsh Cob so I imagine they were harnessed in front of each other when in pairs.

 

Down trains were combined with multiple dandy wagons at the rear to accommodate the returning horses.  Down gravity trains would still be fairly leisurely and stop at all the loops to let the horses out so that they continued to work on the same section - each of the 4 sections of line was contracted out to different operators so normally horses would stay put on that section apart from some rotation to get them to farriers at Boston Lodge and Blaenau Ffestiniog.

 

The line was running at full capacity in the early 1860s before steam was introduced, at which point there would have been a quick cutover and retirement of horses due to the haulage capacity and speed of the new technology.  This was also the point at which non-stop down gravity trains may have begun as there was no need to stop to swap horses at staging loops on the way down.

 

For more details I would take a look at https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Horse_operation  

 

Martin

[Corbs]

So when is the RTR Welsh Cob coming out?

[Stevelewis]

So when is the RTR Welsh Cob coming out?

 

I remember seeing   some  pics  of  a  layout  based  on  a  brewery,  which  had a  motorised  horse  to  shunt  wagons  into  the  buildings  from  the  wagon  turntables in  thee  yard,  I  think  it  was  powered  by  a  Tenshodo  or  Black beetle  motor bogie, I am unsure  how  it  looked  when  it  moved though!!

[HonestTom]

I note with interest that Bachmann have recently released a set of slate wagons in their Thomas range. Now, I assumed that they'd just use the Peco models, as with their other narrow gauge rolling stock. However, looking at the actual models (see https://www.tootallythomas.co.uk/ourshop/prod_6046734-Set-of-3-Narrow-Gauge-Slate-WagonS-w-load-HOn30-Scale-Bachmann-Thomas-and-Friends.html),they actually appear to have tooled up a new wagon that looks to be based on the Talyllyn's 2-bar slate wagon. Even the livery is correct.

 

What I find particularly interesting is that it doesn't look much like the wagons in the TV series, which were much more generic. I'm guessing that the success of Skarloey among serious 009 modellers must have prompted them to produce rolling stock aimed at that market.

[PaulRhB]

The price is eye watering though for a long train at nearly £20 each over double what the new Peco ones cost

They do look nice though

[Chameleon]

I agree with Paul, Nice looking wagons but way too expensive. Doubt even continental ones would fetch that sorta price. I'll stick with the peco ones, any chance of soomeone doing decent loads for them? Don't think the Bachmann ones will fit.

 

Oi! Dave!

Edited May 16, 2017 by Chameleon

[Nile]

I almost forgot about the new Fourdees train pack, but bought one last week. Here is what you get for nearly £200.

 

Plenty of detail in the cab. The white thing on the cab floor is part of the Kato chassis that powers the loco.

 

 

Until they produce a matching brake van a GVT one will do. I'll wait rather then repaint this one.

[brian777999]

I remember seeing   some  pics  of  a  layout  based  on  a  brewery,  which  had a  motorised  horse  to  shunt  wagons  into  the  buildings  from  the  wagon  turntables in  thee  yard,  I  think  it  was  powered  by  a  Tenshodo  or  Black beetle  motor bogie, I am unsure  how  it  looked  when  it  moved though!!

 

Did it have DCC sound ?

[Chameleon]

Neigh!

[Nile]

Good news everyone! A matching brake van is now available from Fourdees, produced exclusively for them by PECO.

 

Here it is with the matching coaches.

 

It's now possible to form a complete matching train, using the train pack plus the new brake coach.

[Stevelewis]

Nice  Pics!

 

Mike Buttel  has  some  pics on  NGRM forum  as well,  in  the trade Topics  section

[Mike Buttell]

14B794AA-DD23-49A5-91AD-3FD9CFC58CF1 by mike buttell, on Flickr

[Nile]

A new arrival today from Minitrains.

Although not a British prototype it could be used on a preserved line as it's OO scale, not HO. That's a Peco L&B van behind it.

[Quarryscapes]

A new arrival today from Minitrains.

MD_01.jpg

Although not a British prototype it could be used on a preserved line as it's OO scale, not HO. That's a Peco L&B van behind it.

 

Beautiful bodywork on a god awful chassis. I wonder if it could be adapted onto an N gauge BR80, or even a Roco NG one? 

[Nile]

It could do with some valve gear, and black wheels.

There's a 3D printed body that fits on the Roco chassis. With a bit of work you could get a better looking model for less than the Minitrains one.

[BernardTPM]

Beautiful bodywork on a god awful chassis.

The wheels and lack of motion may not look so good, but the current MinitrainS Chassis run very well, probably better than the Roco chassis.

[Nile]

The first item from Bachmann's new narrow gauge range has arrived, the WD D class open wagon dating from WW1.

 

The Bemo type couplings can be replaced with anything that will fit into a NEM355 socket, such as these Greenwich couplings.

 

The bogie.

 

Comparison with the Dundas Models kit.

[brian777999]

I remember seeing   some  pics  of  a  layout  based  on  a  brewery,  which  had a  motorised  horse  to  shunt  wagons  into  the  buildings  from  the  wagon  turntables in  thee  yard,  I  think  it  was  powered  by  a  Tenshodo  or  Black beetle  motor bogie, I am unsure  how  it  looked  when  it  moved though!!

 

Who makes the best OO gauge white metal or plastic  horses ?

Edited January 9, 2018 by brian777999