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Renumbering Blood And Custard Stock


gwrrob

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I'm struggling to find some 4mm scale transfers for renumbering ex GWR coaches that are in the blood and custard of the late '50s.My preference is usually waterslide from Fox/Modelmaster but no joy found on their websites.The transfers would also be useful for a renumber of the Hornby Colletts too.W prefix numbers are required.

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I know that Modelmaster's website is under reconstruction at the moment but Fox's should be OK.  MM do specimen numbers for pre-nationalisation coaches which will probably involve cutting up the given numbers to produce those that you actually want.  IIRC Fox do sheets of number blocks from which one can assemble the desired identity and sheets of individual numbers from which you select those that you want.

 

If you are looking for a list of which coaches were in blood and custard and which were maroon on a given date, join the club.  I doubt very much that such a thing exists though I am more than happy to be proved wrong.

 

Chris

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I'm struggling to find some 4mm scale transfers for renumbering ex GWR coaches that are in the blood and custard of the late '50s.My preference is usually waterslide from Fox/Modelmaster but no joy found on their websites.The transfers would also be useful for a renumber of the Hornby Colletts too.W prefix numbers are required.

 

I have produced several made up number waterslide transfer sheets for BR Mk.1, ex-SR, ex-LMS and ex-LNER coaches in co-operation with knowledgeable customers who requested them. All sheets are suitable for crimson, crimson & cream, maroon and green liveries as appropriate. (See http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm ).

 

If anyone is sufficiently knowledgeable to provide lists of suitable numbers for RTR ex-GWR coaches - I think immediately of Airfix / Dapol B-sets, Airfix / Hornby autocoaches, Bachmann autocoaches, Airfix / Hornby(?) Centenary stock, Hornby Colletts (latest), etc. - I would probably be able to produce a sheet / sheets of transfers for renumbering, which would not involve cutting and compiling individual characters.

 

This sheet / these sheets would, as usual, be made available in 2mm., 3mm., 3.5mm., S, 7mm. scales & Gauge 1, as well as 4mm. scale.

 

Over to the membership !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

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Thanks John.I could give you the numbers of all the diagrams that are applicable to the new Hornby Collett releases.That would be a start.

 

Rob,

 

That would certainly be a start, thanks.

 

That said, all of the previous sheets have been exhaustive in coverage, as I find it inevitable that any RTR type available which is omitted will be requested the moment the sheet content is finalised.

 

So - it is essential that all prototypical ex-GWR RTR models, either current or previously available, are included in the numbering list provided.

 

I do have the relevant books in my library but I am not a GWR expert, so quite a bit of time would have to be devoted to research; time which I currently do not have.

 

In passing, can I draw the attention of members to the forthcoming temporary closure of Cambridge Custom Transfers, from mid-January to mid-February? Non-railway commitments force this hiatus; I regret any inconvenience caused. I would request that any urgent orders are sent immediately; I will not be able to deal with a rush of orders sent immediately prior to the closure date.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

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If anyone is sufficiently knowledgeable to provide lists of suitable numbers for RTR ex-GWR coaches - I think immediately of Airfix / Dapol B-sets, Airfix / Hornby autocoaches, Bachmann autocoaches, Airfix / Hornby(?) Centenary stock, Hornby Colletts (latest), etc.

John

 

Here are diagram numbers for those:

 

Airfix/Hornby/Mainline 4mm B-set - diagram E140  (and Dapol N)

Airfix/Hornby 4mm autocoach - diagram A30  (and Dapol N)

Bachmann 4mm autocoach - diagrams A38/40

Airfix/Hornby 4mm Centenary stock - diagrams E149 (composite) and D120 (brake 3rd)

Hornby 4mm new Colletts - D95* brake 3rd, C54 3rd, E127* compo  (* in r/h and l/h forms)

 

Listings of these and other GWR RTR coaches are here (for 4mm) and here (for N).

 

For running numbers, look at Glyn Jones' excellent listing. (also available as a Word doc in case you want to convert it to a spreadsheet and do some sorting). The Harris book is good of course, but Glyn's listing is somewhat easier to use. * I do not know of a listing that distinguishes the numbers for the r/h and l/h versions.

 

For numbering style and size, see Pete Speller's excellent pdf. (Please note, for those autocoaches repainted crimson and cream, the number size was 7".) (Edit: please see post #14 for further confusion on autocoach numbering size.)

 

A 'W' suffix began to be added to GWR coach designs from 1952, but the process was gradual and adhoc. (chrisf is the man to ask about this can of worms!)

 

General BR(W) coach livery info.

 

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A 'W' suffix began to be added to GWR coach designs from 1952, but the process was gradual and adhoc. (chrisf is the man to ask about this can of worms!)

 

 

Can opener at the ready ...

 

Generally speaking, under BR coaches of pre-nationalisation design first bore their numbers at the left hand end and without a suffix.  In addition to acquiring a suffix denoting origin and responsibility for maintenance [W, S, M, E] the numbers were moved from the left to the right hand end to match the BR standard coaches which had prefixes only, save for a few suffixes applied in error and for other mysterious reasons.  As Miss Prism states above, this process began in 1952.  However, some vehicles were shopped more frequently than others and there were still coaches running around in 1956 with left hand numbers and no suffix.

 

To answer Rob in post #3, yes if you are prepared to cut the transfers to yield the desired number, but you could run out of Ws fairly soon as the numbers intended for Mk 1s have prefixes only.

 

Finally a word abut the colours of the numerals.  Some stock in blood and custard and most stock in chocolate and cream carried gold numerals.  ModelMaster do not offer these but Fox do.  ModelMaster sell transfers in yellow, which suit blood and custard, and cream, which suit maroon.  There must have been coaches which carried cream instead of yellow or vice versa.  Fox offer old gold or straw which some users prefer.

 

I'll go and have my lunch now ...

 

Chris

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John

 

Here are diagram numbers for those:

 

Airfix/Hornby/Mainline 4mm B-set - diagram E140  (and Dapol N)

Airfix/Hornby 4mm autocoach - diagram A30  (and Dapol N)

Bachmann 4mm autocoach - diagrams A38/40

Airfix/Hornby 4mm Centenary stock - diagrams E149 (composite) and D120 (brake 3rd)

Hornby 4mm new Colletts - D95* brake 3rd, C54 3rd, E127* compo  (* in r/h and l/h forms)

 

Listings of these and other GWR RTR coaches are here (for 4mm) and here (for N).

 

For running numbers, look at Glyn Jones' excellent listing. (also available as a Word doc in case you want to convert it to a spreadsheet and do some sorting). The Harris book is good of course, but Glyn's listing is somewhat easier to use. * I do not know of a listing that distinguishes the numbers for the r/h and l/h versions.

 

For numbering style and size, see Pete Speller's excellent pdf. (Please note, for those autocoaches repainted crimson and cream, the number size was 7".)

 

A 'W' suffix began to be added to GWR coach designs from 1952, but the process was gradual and adhoc. (chrisf is the man to ask about this can of worms!)

 

General BR(W) coach livery info.

 

 

Thank you so much for those links - extremely useful!

 

Using them and the 'FIND' search tool, I have compiled the list below :-

 

 

PROTOTYPICAL RTR BR ex-GWR COACHES

 

A23 – HAWKSWORTH FK – Hornby : 8001-8003, 8053-8064, 8112-8125

 

A30 - AUTOCOACH - AIRFIX / Hornby : 187-196

 

A38 - AUTOCOACH - Bachmann : 220-234

 

C54 – COLLETT SK – Hornby (CURRENT) : 4545-4562, 4776-4912

 

C77 – COLLETT SK - MAINLINE / REPLICA / Bachmann : 501-595, 1080-1089, 1091, 1093-1098, 1100-1116, 1118-112, 1130-1134, 1136-1155

 

C82 – HAWKSWORTH SK – Hornby : 781-832, 855-924, 2107-2136

 

D95 – COLLETT BSK – Hornby (CURRENT) : 4913-4944, 5087-5132

 

D120 - CENTENARY BSK – AIRFIX / Hornby : 4575-4580

 

D133 – HAWKSWORTH BSK – Hornby : 1772-1786, 2137-2185, 2187-2223, 2225-2238, 2240-2259

 

E127 – COLLETT CK – Hornby (CURRENT) : 6024, 6026, 6029-6030, 6034, 6037, 6050, 6068, 6099, 6105, 6135, 6137-6138, 6145-6146, 6149-6150, 6155-6156, 6158, 6160, 6167, 6181, 6187, 6192, 6194, 6198, 6201, 6203, 6209, 6211, 6519, 6525-6528,  6530-6532, 6536

 

E140 - B-SET - AIRFIX / MAINLINE / Hornby : 6261-6262, 6365-6366, 6371-6372, 6374-6375, 6381-6382, 6409-6414, 6445-6457, 6459-6465, 6470-6471, 6523-6524, 6534-6535, 6537-6538, 6541-6542, 6548-6549, 6554-6555, 6557-6558, 6589-6590, 6656-6657, 6703-6704, 6722-6723, 6894-6895, 6968-6969, 6975-6978, 6979-6980, 6983-6984, 6986-6987, 6989-6990, 6995-6996, 6999-7000

 

E149 – CENTENARY CK – AIRFIX / Hornby : 6658-6661

 

E159 – COLLETT BCK – MAINLINE / REPLICA / Bachmann : 6355-6356, 6408, 6421, 6485, 6487, 6533, 6539-6540, 6543-6544, 6546, 6550, 6552, 6559, 6562, 6564, 6595, 6599-6600, 6603, 6605, 6608-6610, 6705-6706, 6713, 6829, 7060-7064, 7341-7346, 7357-7371,

 

E163 – HAWKSWORTH CK – Hornby : 7252-7262

 

E164 – HAWKSWORTH BCK – Hornby : 7372-7385, 7838-7867

 

K45 – HAWKSWORTH BG – Hornby : 290-324

 

Now this was a purely 'extraction of data' exercise - I know little or nothing about the subject of GWR coaching stock. Please let me know of ANY omissions and anomalies that you may find; remembering that these numbers will be used on the transfer sheets with BR W prefixes and suffixes. If any of the listed vehicles did NOT exist under BR in their listed format, either due to withdrawal of rebuilding, I would be pleased to hear of the fact.

 

If this sheet of transfers is to be available this side of mid-February I will have to have definitive number listings VERY soon.

 

Thanks in anticipation for any and all help that you may be able to offer.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

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Chris F mentioned that some prefer gold or straw numbers but my preference would definitely be whatever the colour is on this C54.It would match the Hornby offering very nicely.

 

post-126-0-24458400-1481472535_thumb.jpg

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Chris F mentioned that some prefer gold or straw numbers but my preference would definitely be whatever the colour is on this C54.It would match the Hornby offering very nicely.

 

attachicon.gifCollett coach..jpg

 

My transfers will be a very close match to your illustration; I do not offer the gold option.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

(PS. I would call that straw).

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John - the note in my previous post about the size of numbering on the Autocoaches is suspect or incomplete. Compare two crimson and cream autocoaches here and here. The numbers are clearly different sizes. W 231 is 7", whereas W 220 W is smaller (possibly standard 4"?).

Perhaps Pete Speller (K14 here) might be able to shed some light on this.

(There is a long RMweb thread on the Bachmann autocoach, which I have only just discovered.)

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E140 - B-SET - AIRFIX / MAINLINE / Hornby : 6261-6262, 6365-6366, 6371-6372, 6374-6375, 6381-6382, 6409-6414, 6445-6457, 6459-6465, 6470-6471, 6523-6524, 6534-6535, 6537-6538, 6541-6542, 6548-6549, 6554-6555, 6557-6558, 6589-6590, 6656-6657, 6703-6704, 6722-6723, 6894-6895, 6968-6969, 6975-6978, 6979-6980, 6983-6984, 6986-6987, 6989-6990, 6995-6996, 6999-7000

 

 John - you missed 6240-6241.

 

Btw, some sample end brandings (white letters, about 3") are given in:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

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Yes they did. The 'stroke' of the characters was 5/8", with a black perimeter of 1/16".

 

1/16" in 4mm scale is, err, a bit small...

 

I see what you mean. I make it around 0.02mm, but my maths is not good.

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My transfers will be a very close match to your illustration; I do not offer the gold option.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

(PS. I would call that straw).

 

I have now prepared the transfer sheet in draft format.

 

post-2274-0-15726900-1481499678_thumb.jpg

 

Thank you to those who have added number groups - I had more than enough to fill the sheet, thanks!

 

If anyone interested could cast their eye over the draft for any discrepancies, I would be grateful.

 

Subject to that, the sheet will be added to my web-site tomorrow.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

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John - please see my post #14. The crimson and cream autocoaches seem to have carried either 7" or 4" lettering, and I don't know which carried which size. Maybe it would wise to make the autocoach numbers in 4" as well, which will have the added benefit of being useful for the all-crimson and all-maroon liveries.

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John - please see my post #14. The crimson and cream autocoaches seem to have carried either 7" or 4" lettering, and I don't know which carried which size. Maybe it would wise to make the autocoach numbers in 4" as well, which will have the added benefit of being useful for the all-crimson and all-maroon liveries.

 

If you revisit my recent posting, (refresh your browser), you will see that I have done just that - a selection of both.

 

Regards,

John.

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I have now prepared the transfer sheet in draft format.

 

attachicon.gif4BL0171 small.jpg

 

Thank you to those who have added number groups - I had more than enough to fill the sheet, thanks!

 

If anyone interested could cast their eye over the draft for any discrepancies, I would be grateful.

 

Subject to that, the sheet will be added to my web-site tomorrow.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

 

Right - after a few typos have been corrected, this sheet is now available to order; I will add it to my web-site ASAP.

 

See http://www.cctrans.org.uk/latest.htm .

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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A question about the number positions.Did they vary as the Hornby C54 has them under the window but my kit built E127/8s have them under the grab rail.

 

Post 480 by Coachmann tells me where they go.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99267-collett-bow-ended-standard-57-corridor-stock-coaches-for-2016/page-20

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