Manufacturers of German rolling stock

[wirey33]

How do the various manufacturers of German rolling stock compare to each other?

 

Is Brawa better than Piko?

 

How does Fleischmann fare against Roco? 

 

I see some good prices for a few bits that I'm tempted by, but I don't want to be buying the equivalent of Hornby Railroad when I could spend a few more pennies and get something much better.

 

I'm mostly interested in 1990-to present day.

 

Opinions welcome...

[Andy Hayter]

A bit out of touch now, but some comments from me assuming we are talking HO:

 

Fleischmann is Roco. They were taken over a few years ago. I am not sure whether Roco have differentiated the ranges though. Before take over, I would have put them a roughly equivalent quality and price.

 

Piko in some areas have a dual range/standard like Hornby and Hornby railroad.

 

Brawa is the higher quality but the prices tend to prove that. Whether the extra cost is value for money will depend on your own views. I have models from all 4 producers.

 

You left out Trix. Newer models (to Maerklin standards) are very good quality. Earlier models did vary a bit, some very good, others a bit on the basic side.

 

 

Beware earlier models many of which were under scale length for most producers. As late as the mid 1990s F and R were both producing coaches at 1:100 length.

[Allegheny1600]

For coaching stock I'd say watch out for coach lengths,

Fleischmann and Trix usually use 1/93 for the LENGTH of modern coaches (26.4m), giving an overall measurement of 282mm when they should be 303mm.

SOME Roco and occasional other makes are worse with a LENGTH scale of 1/100 giving an overall coach length of 265mm. Roco do differentiate between their scale coaches as these are marked up as being 1/87 scale.

This is so the underscale coaches can go around the Christmas tree and other small radius curves.

I hasten to add: these scales are LONGITUDINAL measurements only, the height and width scale are correct 1/87!

 

For freight, it's almost how long is a piece of string?

Most modern stuff is brilliant but expensive.

Brawa is arguably the finest but easiest to lose parts from. Fleischmann possibly among the more robustly made.

Roco has purchased other ranges over the years AND mixed up it's range with Fleischmann so it's hard to tell who made what.

 

"Hobby" ranges indicate more robust but less well detailed models, I think that's about it really.

HTH,

John.

[jjb1970]

I'd echo the comments of others regarding coach scale. The difference between a true 1/87 model and a 1/100 model is very noticeable and so the two scales cannot be mixed. The intermediate scale of 1/93 was a compromise to improve on the older 1/100 models while keeping length a bit shorter, to be honest I never really saw the point as those willing to compromise for trainset curves were probably OK with 1/100 models and those that wanted true scale models wanted 1/87.

With regards models in general, Roco in particular still offer a lot of models dating to the original Roco company (they've gone through bankruptcy and ownership changes) which are surprisingly affordable given the accepted wisdom that HO is way more expensive than OO. These models are not Railroad quality, in fact it is a sad indictment of OO of not that long ago that they don't really give much away to modern OO and are still excellent models with high quality mechanisms.

I'd second the reference to ACME, ACME have limited German interest but the German outline they do make is excellent. I have the ACME Br120 and is is an absolutely superb model, outstanding. I like Italian HO and find ACME Italian outline to be excellent. Hornby do a bit of German HO under their Rivarossi brand and what they offer is pretty good.

My general advice is that Roco are a very safe bet as they make few mediocre models and their average standard is very high, they're also pretty well priced for the most part. Fleischmann are also a pretty safe bet in terms of quality. Trix can be variable, their E10/Br110 with the aero nose (called Chinese 110's in less PC times) is a really great model but some of their stuff is a bit basic. I'm guessing you're already aware that Marklin is 3rail AC, if not then make sure you don't buy Marklin unless you do actually have a three rail AC layout, wagons and coaches are OK as changing wheels is easy enough but locomotives are a different story.

If you have deep pockets then ESU make some wonderful models which come fitted out with lots of digital functionality, not cheap, but very nice.

[jjb1970]

On Piko, I wouldn't rule out their locomotive models as some of them are excellent. The Piko Br103 is a superb model that really captures the look of the prototype, has good detail and is very well finished. Terrific running qualities and it undercuts the Roco model too (though not the Fleischmann model which sits in their starter range and isn't in the same league IMO).

Edited December 17, 2016 by jjb1970

[Taigatrommel]

Like the hobby in Britain, I think each model must be taken on its individual merits.  Some time ago I was very excited about Brawa's release of Halberstadt coaches in H0, and when they arrived, yes, they were finely detailed and well finished, but there was a very visible dimensional error on the solebar.  Without wishing to be hyperbolic, it ruined their appearance in traffic red to the point that I sold the ones I had bought.

 

Another example would be the DR 119 diesel, now available from Gützold, Brawa and Piko.  The Brawa one was my choice up until the Piko model appeared, even though the Piko one was nominally a mid-range model I found it had the visual edge.  Gützold won hands down for running qualities though!

 

Piko's classic range wagons, which offer much for your era, are absolutely superb, but have price tags to match.

 

For modern coaching stock you'll find many smaller brands offering superb products at comparable prices to Roco.  Hobbytrade's double deck stock for instance, and just about anything from ACME or LS Models.  Watch British secondhand markets for bargains, I missed out on a LS Models SNCB 13 a couple of days ago, which sold for just £62.  This would fetch around €200 on the continent.

 

I'm sorry this doesn't help a great deal, I'd simply say that when you want a given type, search for which makes offer it and pore over photos to make your mind up as to which choice you'd make.

[Guest]

Although modelling Spanish railways, not German, this thread has been useful. I had until now assumed that Piko were rather a "budget" or "lower detailed" brand and had somewhat skipped anything with that name. I'll pay more attention.

[jjb1970]

I think it's true that each model needs to be considered on it's own merits. The quality of European HO tends to be very high and there aren't many real lemons but there are models which are better than others and judging based on the manufacturer isn't the best approach. Some manufacturers also have a range which goes from Railroad quality entry level models through to high end models which leads many to dismiss them as purveyors of toys. Piko sometimes suffer from that, another manufacturer that suffers from that is Lima. Lima are the Hornby HO low cost entry range and most of their products are cheap products for the trainset market however the Lima Expert range has some outstanding models which are as good as any HO RTR I've seen, their E636 and E646 articulated electrics are wonderful models.

[SarahJ]

It used to be said that Fleischmann were like Mercedes and Roco BMW. ie Fleischmann were a bit more rugged while Roco were very technical.  These days each company has pluses and minuses.  I have the new Voith 360 shunters from both ESU and Brawa. Each one has pluses and minus points. I like the auto coupler on the ESU, but like the fan and sounds on the Brawa. The smoke has never been great on the ESU, the Brawa has no smoke.  Sometimes PIKO stuff can be great, other times not so. Sometimes prices silly, sometimes, not too bad. All I know is that I came back from a trip to Dortmund and had too much fun.

 

Anyway, the pics shows a mixture of Fleischmann, Roco, Piko, ESU, Trix, Viesmann and Mehano (the 66)

Edited May 22, 2017 by SarahJ

[Vinedusk]

I see that this topic has been pinned for posterity.  Ill add what i can.

 

Fleischmann, Roco, Electrotren and Rivarossi are all owned by Hornby International. Afaik.

 

Fleischmann are now exclusively N gauge and Roco are HO only. As of about 2019.

 

From what I can tell, price equates to detail. Brawa models are the most detailed. Piko are at the inexpensive  end of the market.

[Andy Hayter]

Unless I missed something Fleischmann and Roco are not owned by Hornby but Jouef and Arnold are.

 

Roco bought Fleischmann and that precipitated the scale concentrations in each brand.  

[Gordonwis]

3 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

I see that this topic has been pinned for posterity.  Ill add what i can.

 

Fleischmann, Roco, Electrotren and Rivarossi are all owned by Hornby International. Afaik.

 

Fleischmann are now exclusively N gauge and Roco are HO only. As of about 2019.

 

From what I can tell, price equates to detail. Brawa models are the most detailed. Piko are at the inexpensive  end of the market.

 

Hornby International does not include Fleischmann/Roco

 

The Hornby International portfolio comprises Arnold (N), Jouef, Rivarossi and Electrotren (HO). Each of the HO brands concentrates on the 'home' subject relevant to the original provenance of the company, namely Jouef (France), Rivarossi (Italy), Electrotren (Spain). In N scale, Arnold was a German company but has throughout its history (and this is continued under Hornby) produced models of all European subjects.

 

Fleischmann (family firm) ran into financial trouble and was acquired by the same financial organisation as had already rescued Roco. To avoid duplication of work, the combined company decided to concentrate one brand on each scale. Fleischmann had a (sort of) market lead in N scale so was chosen as the N specialist, with Roco the HO specialist

 

Piko is mot certainly not at the 'inexpensive' end of the market any more. A few years ago their prices jumped suddenly from 'bargain' to 'prestige'  level

 

Then there is the Märklin group, covering the brands: Märklin (HO ac system, plus Z scale) , Trix HO and Minitrix N

[rekoboy]

Although a TT modeller I can add to the discussion in that I am thoroughly impressed by the quality and performance of both Roco and Piko products, and can recommend them wholeheartedly. I have three Roco steam locos on my layout (BR 44, BR 38, BR 80) which run beautifully and look absolutely first-rate in terms of details and finish. Similarly, I have several recent locos by Piko - their first steam loco in TT, the BR 55 is awesome. Although it is a mainstream, relatively (!) modestly-priced model the level of detail (including a working oil-pump drive, taken off the valve gear!!) is fantastic - and it runs like a dream. Piko's diesels in TT are also of an admirable quality - just look at the fine detail on the BR 106. And then there's Hornby-Arnold. Their BR 95 and the Kleinlok are also of a very good quality and look superb.

[Vinedusk]

On 25/02/2021 at 12:00, Gordonwis said:

 

Hornby International does not include Fleischmann/Roco

 

The Hornby International portfolio comprises Arnold (N), Jouef, Rivarossi and Electrotren (HO). Each of the HO brands concentrates on the 'home' subject relevant to the original provenance of the company, namely Jouef (France), Rivarossi (Italy), Electrotren (Spain). In N scale, Arnold was a German company but has throughout its history (and this is continued under Hornby) produced models of all European subjects.

 

Fleischmann (family firm) ran into financial trouble and was acquired by the same financial organisation as had already rescued Roco. To avoid duplication of work, the combined company decided to concentrate one brand on each scale. Fleischmann had a (sort of) market lead in N scale so was chosen as the N specialist, with Roco the HO specialist

 

Piko is mot certainly not at the 'inexpensive' end of the market any more. A few years ago their prices jumped suddenly from 'bargain' to 'prestige'  level

 

Then there is the Märklin group, covering the brands: Märklin (HO ac system, plus Z scale) , Trix HO and Minitrix N

 Oops. Yep, you're correct.  I was asleep when I posted this.

[crackedmember]

Not looked recently but is the HAMO range still  available from Marklin (12v dc versions of its range)?

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Since Märklin took over Trix — quite a long time ago now — DC versions of their products are issued under the Trix brand.

[SamThomas]

"Old" Flesichmann (with the 3-pole motor) will run forever with no more attention required than an occasional oil/clean & carbon brushes.

"Old" Roco - either a good one or a bad one, running wise.

"Old" Piko - avoid locomotives - some rolling stock good but it depended on what factory made it (East German was a sort of co-operative).

New Piko is generally good - however, IMHO the differences between Hobby, Expert & such do not always make sense.

Brawa is nice but delicate, not very good on replacements parts.

Hornby Rivarossi/Jouef/Lima is good - some of the last products from this group before Hornby are also good.

Spares for Fleischmann/Roco & Piko are pretty good for models under 10 years old.

 

Some of the smaller manufactures produce some nice (& sometimes rare) models, such as LS Models, Acme, Hobbytrade.

 

Comments based on my own experience.

[maico]

On 11/03/2021 at 16:53, D9020 Nimbus said:

Since Märklin took over Trix — quite a long time ago now — DC versions of their products are issued under the Trix brand.

 

23 years ago!

[Vinedusk]

Here's some recent items:

 

Hobbytrain:

 

 

 

Electrotren:

 

 

plastic spring for coupler mechansim

 

Rivarossi:

 

 

Fleischmann:

 

 

Piko

 

Hobby, I think; factory feathered, set of 3.

 

 

Tillig:

 

 

 

 

I would like to see more Rivarossi and Electrotren items in Era 1 and 2.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Vinedusk
corrections

[readingtype]

I discovered that, as shown in the photo above, the Tillig (ex-Sachsenmodelle) Pwg carries polystyrene dust from its packing wherever it goes, spread around its body like pollen on a honeybee. I threw away the (enormous) box to cure the problem.

[MichaelE]

Watch the older Liliput rolling stock. I could have used the wheels to cut pizza on the Era III coaches I received the other day. Very nicely made and finished though.

 

Those wheels wouldn't roll on Code 83 track, and pushing it through the points was like off-roading. I changed out the wheels and they're fine now.