South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

So, suddenly finding myself bereft of a coach building project to worry about, I’ve embarked on another one.  This is to make an acceptable looking cut’n’shut ersatz Collett suburban coach out of the withdrawn Airfix B set.  Simple enough so far; cut along the line of one of the compartment divider ridges on each coach, glue the compartment ends together, and bin the brake ends.  Should be easy...

 

But you can’t make an all-third, or a composite with the minimum 2 first class compartments for one smoking and one non-smoking, because the bodyshell won’t come out the right length for the underframe.  The only option is a composite with a single first class compartment, and AFAIK, no such vehicles existed apart from B set brake compos.   

 

So, we are well off beam for anything remotely prototypical with this, and the best I can hope for is a passable neverwazza to use as an occasional spare or stregthener.  I am not decided whether it’ll look less unlikely as an all third with an oddly spaced compartment in the middle or as a compo; the former will probably draw less attention to itself.  A 60’ Collett bowended all third, possibly with 9’ Collett bogies (you cut the bogie mounts out and reposition them just inboard of the previous position, and you can do the same in reverse with the coach’s original bogies on an A28/30 auto trailer conversion). 

 

I’ve started, and current sitrep is that the new interior section has been cut out and installed on the underframe, the bodyshell is in one piece and being filed as smooth as I can before attacking it with Milliput while I laze about in front of the telly.  Next tasks after that are to paint (early BR crimson), fit new ventilators so they’re all on the same side in a line, glaze, fit the body, and some decent size buffers. 

 

Suggestions re bogies and number would be appreciated!

[Budgie]

Couldn't you use a BR Mark 1 suburban coach? Replica makes a kit of the 10-compartment version. Or if you were prepared to acceot a 9-compartment version, Bachmann used to do one RTR.

[The Johnster]

I have an old Bachmann mk 1 9 compartment already, Jane, some of which were used in South Wales; this wee projectette is basically a ploy to use up parts of an Airfix B set which as it stood was not suitable for my particular area and is to be eventually replaced with a Comet flat ender B set.  I am not good at throwing things away if they can be used, and the price is right; the only thing I have to buy for it are the new buffers, so it's a cheap and reasonably effective looking coach for my layout for not much work and not much outlay.  It's fun easy modelling, and satisfying.

 

This mk 1 is in the 'to do' box at the moment pending a repaint into crimson or unlined maroon (I've set the period as 1948-58, so a lined maroon coach is pushing the time envelope)  and renumbering to a WR coach.  Not sure how old it is as I bought it secondhand, but it has Mainline type couplers and not NEMs.  I think someone does a bodyshell kit or 3D print for a Hawkworth 64' 10 compartment all third as well, which goes on the Hornby Hawksworth chassis, but that'd mean 3 'strengthener/spares', all all thirds (seconds) which seems overprovision on what is not a large layout!

 

My auto trailers are all correct and correctly numbered for Tondu allocations, but other passenger stock is a bit of a compromise for which I cite Rule 1 as authority.  A Comet C66/75 which can double as an intermediate compartment auto trailer is fine, and I have a pair of new Hornby suburbans which at least look similar to the 5 coach sets used in South Wales.  An E116 originally acquired as a bogie donor that I decided to make up anyways (ancient K's kit worked up with a floor and interior) is very much a Rule 1 beast, though,  as will be the new coach, but the situation is much better than it was a year ago, when the trailers were not yet correctly numbered and the only alternative was the incorrect Airfix B set (they were used in South Wales, but not at Tondu).  An A44 'Cyclops' driving trailer is also on the shopping list from Comet.  Basically the current situation is that I have 2 two coach auto rakes, and 3 loco hauled including Hornby shortie clerestory 3 coach rake for a miner's workmans, enough for the timetable but I'd like to be able to rotate the stock a bit for variety.

 

South Wales' ex GW routes are not well served in terms of non-gangwayed compartment stock by RTR, and an amount of compromise is inevitable.  The GW's habit of building sets specifically for certain areas  which led to a lot of similar looking but different length stock does not play to the sort of standardisation enjoyed by the LMS or LNER that RTR can exploit.  The recent Hornby suburbans have made a difference, and I'm glad to have them but they are really only suitable for the London or Birmingham area 4 coach trains, with a few sets at Chester; South Wales and Bristol had 5 coach sets with larger brake compartments and all thirds.  Hopefully somebody will turn up with body kits or side overlays to go on the Hornby coaches...

[Happy Hippo]

Mousa Models are working on resin  5  coach sets for the S Wales brigade.

 

http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/kits/gwr_coaches4.html

[The Johnster]

And a Diagram N auto trailer; very bad news indeed for my wallet!  A diagram N, specifically No.38 photographed at Bridgend by H C Casserley on an Abergwynfi working in the 50s in Lewis, is going to be impossible to resist.  There's no room on my layout for a full Cardiff Valleys 5 coach set of bowenders and I'll prolly learn to live with the Hornbys.

 

I'd forgotten about Mousa, and will be looking into this!

[The Johnster]

Back to the bowended 'all third'; today has seen the gap filled with Milliput, the ventilators cut off one end, and holes drilled for the new ventilators.  I'll have to wait now for the Milliput to go off before smoothing it down before repainting the coach, and nothing is planned for tomorrow so I might well do it then.  While I've got the grey out to do the roof and the new ventilators (Comet, that I had in stock anyway), I might as well give the A31's roof a coat.  

 

But no more for tonight; it's pub time soon!  It'll be a couple of weeks before this project is finished as I have to order decent buffers for it; the silly little blobby plastic Airfix ones will not do at all, and ultimately I may well replace the bogies with Stafford Works Shapeways, or even the superb Hornbys if I go for 7 footers.  Bogie choice will depend on number choice, or vice versa, and I still need to some basic research re numbers!  Current front runner is W 5472 W which appears as a crimson liveried C63/5 all third on the Comet site, about as close as this mongrel is going to get to being anything, so 7' bogies will do.  It really shouldn't be doing service as a spare single coach at Tondu, having it's work cut out in 5 coach sets in the Cardiff Valleys in reality at this time, so I'll run it with the E116 which also has no real right to be there...

Edited May 26, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Except that 5472 is listed as a C66 on the GW site, and the number range for C63 is 5672-88.  So, for the moment, it's somewhere in that range until somebody tells me otherwise.  I'm sort of considering the vehicle as a C63 despite it's differences from that coach, and will proceed on that basis.

 

Onwards and upwards...

[Budgie]

Hugh Longworth (BR pre-Nationalisation coaching stock) gives 5472 as C66, and the C63s as you state.

[The Johnster]

Thank you for this confirmation, Jane, my coach will be numbered somewhere in the 5672-88 series.  To be fair to the Comet picture, if you blow it up on a computer screen it it difficult to be certain what the second number is.  As I have recently built a Comet C66, I thought I recognised the 54xx series as belonging to that diagram, I'd actually numbered mine as 5461!

[The Johnster]

There are, it is alleged, other things in the world besides Collett non-gangwayed compartment coaches despite the fact that these have been my principal obsession for most of 2019 so far, and some of the Woodland Scenics foliage has sprouted.  It is about the colour of Hawthorn or Blackberry, and a stretch along the station approach path does not keep it's berries for very long once they are ripe...  

[The Johnster]

The C63 is essentially complete after this evening's session; painted, glazed, no-smoking compartments (taken from the Comet photo, 3rd and 6th from the end with the communication cord linkage pipes and rods), and numbered, purely because it was easy to do as a cut and shut from numbers on a CCT sheet, as W 5684 W.  The bodyshell is reattached to the underframe, and all that remains to do is to attach the extra ventilators, holes already drilled, paint the roof, and fit the new buffers.  This will be the last job, as they will be ordered from Comet on Wednesday, which is pension day...  I need to cut off the communication cord linkage gear from one end as well and file/rub everything down smooth.  The number transfers are drying out as I write and will be sealed in with varnish as the first job during the next session, probably Thursday now.

 

It looks a bit like a C63 at first glance, but the spacing for the erstwhile B set first class compartment gives the game away.  In order to avoid attracting attention to this more than I absolutely have to, it's carrying 1956 unlined maroon livery which is the darkest alternative available to me.  If it run it in a set with the Hornby suburbans, it'll be well shown up, so I'll avoid that and it's running partner will be the E116.  This means that there is no non-smoking first class compartment in the set, which bothers me a little but I'll learn to live with it; after all the E116 is pretty unlikely in South Wales in any case as is a lone wolf C63.  I've made one of the smoking compartments and one next to it 'Ladies Only', as there are labels for this on a sheet of Fox no smoking triangles and first class sausages I already had, which sort of suggests use on the ROF Tremains workman's to me as a good number of women were employed on the Tremains industrial estate.  This workman's is based on a real train in the 1960 Summer Passenger WTT that ran from Abergwynfi.  I don't actually recall any such compartments on real stock anywhere in South Wales, and the malachite suggests that they were a Southern Region thing, but perhaps not; the dark blue first class sausages weren't an Eastern Region thing particularly...

 

Next coach job should be a Comet cyclops A44 auto trailer, W 256 W, but I'm going to have a break from coaches for a while now.  They have been, as I alluded in the previous post, a bit of an obsession and a change might be healthy!  There's plenty else to do; I do not have enough open general merchandise goods wagons and some Parkside kits should see to that and the coaching stock situation is much better than it was 6 months ago.  

[The Johnster]

Bit of an impulse buy down at Lord & Butler’s today, a Parkside ‘French Type’ mineral with cupboard doors.  This means I can withdraw an Oxford 5 plank which is one of two with duplicated numbers to be replaced with the new wagon.  This is the last of my duplicate numbers, at least until the next time I buy another one of something I’ve already got.   I’m running out of different types of 9’ wheelbase minerals to include on the layout!

 

I’m sort of glad to be taking a break from coaches, if only temporarily.   A 21tonner, GW 5 planker, and a BR standard 5 planker, also from Parkside, are on the way from Rails of Sheffield, and if they arrive tomorrow will precipitate a wagon building session for Sunday, which’ll improve the van/open ratio for the general merchandise fleet and release another mineral for general traffic (we need a mineral to deliver stone occasionally to the colliery in connection with the foundations for the pithead baths the NCB are building down there). 

Edited May 31, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

The Rails order turned up from Sheffield this morning in the post, so we are on for a bit of a wagon building session tomorrrow.  I doubt I'll get them all done; I could 'production line' them but that in my experience is a sure way to get parts mixed up, so it's probably best to do them one at a time at least as builds.  Painting and numbering them all in one go is a more sensible idea!  

 

I like Parkside's approach to numbering, with a choice of numbers and the opportunity to buy more of the same kit without duplicating the numbers.  I think it's a shame that the GW livery is not catered for in the open kit (it was with the Mica, the only other full Parkside kit I've built), but should I buy another one, a distinct possibility, GW livery is well within my comfort zone; the other kits are pure BR anyway as I doubt any of the cupboard door minerals ran in the UK in SNCF livery!  

 

I very nearly bought an LNER plywood van in L & B's yesterday, but resisted as there are already too many vans on the layout in proportion to opens.  2 or 3 more opens will redress the balance as my fleet is not large, and I'm going for about 50% vans and 50% others including lowfits and conflats for the general merchandise fleet; this is about right, I think, for the mid 50s.  But the LNER plywood is an attractive little thing with a completely different door to my Bachmann LNER vans, and I would not be amazed to see one on Cwmdimbath in the not too distant future...

 

Vans represented an increasing proportion of general merchandise stock throughout the first 60 years of the 20th century, and proportions in the 50s were changing rapidly as large numbers of new ones were coming into service. both BR standard and later build big 4 designs, and at the same time the later built big 4 examples were being improved by the Ideal Wagons Committee.  At the same time, inroads were being made to the prevalence of unfitted stock, both new builds and refurbished vans being supplied with vacuum brakes.  The same thing was happening at the same time to the opens, and unfitted examples were rare by the 60s and unknown in the 70s, by which time about 80% of the fleet were vans.  Vehicles in BR livery on my layout are generally quite lightly weathered and one or two are presented fresh from the paint shop; this reflects the general appearance of the stock at the time.

 

It was a lot longer before much impact was made on the mineral fleet, though, and I have only one fitted 16tonner.

Edited June 1, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

I've done the O11 GW open, and will after this tea break paint it and put the transfers on.  You can make an 015 as well, but I've made mine up as an O11 to be in BR grey unfitted livery, sans tiebars or tarp bar as suggested in the instruction sheet's brief history.  As this livery would have been fairly recently applied during my layout's period, I will not weather it too heavily.  

 

It went together pretty easily, but I don't like the fiddly handbrake levers, which could just as effectively been moulded with their brackets.  This seems to be making the kit unnecessarily difficult to my mind; my attitude to kits is that they are labour saving ways of providing models that for some reason cannot be easily or profitably done in RTR, not to prove that you are skilled enough to build them!  

 

One wagon completed, painted, transfers applied, and put into service will be enough for today, and I won't start any of the others just yet.  Next on the list is the 'French' 16ton steel mineral, perhaps during the week.

 

I've rebuilt the barrow crossing using Ratio bits.  IIRC the original was Peco Scalescenes but I can't see the difference.  Learning from the mistakes last time, I've trimmed the outside planks to clear flanges, and 'eased' the fit of the side pieces.  Everything clears nicely now and perfect running over the crossing has been achieved.  

Edited June 3, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

I’ve had a closer look at my fleet of minerals, all 22 of ‘em, and discovered 2 additional duplicate running numbers.  This means that, short of renumbering the wagons with individual bombers from an HMRS sheet, I can justify another 2 new minerals. 

 

Ordered from Rails/Sheffield again, more Parksides, a riveted 16tonner and a ‘normal’ one, further biodiversifying my mineral fleet.  June is going to be ‘The Month Of The Wagons’ at Cwmdimbath!

 

Here’s the first build, GW O11 without tiebars or tarp rail as suggested in Parkside instruction history. 

[88D]

I like the way that you justify new kits for duplicates, instead of just renumbering. Pure class!

[The Johnster]

Good, innit!  I use the excuse that my eyesight is no longer up to individual numbers of that size, but of course there are complete numbers available that are suitable from sources other than HMRS.  Bit of self delusion does no harm, though, and a riveted mineral will be a new sort, as will a 21 ton double door all steel BR standard.  I am by nature a lazy sod though, and any of my erstwhile bosses will confirm that I am perfectly suited to a life of complete idleness, so it is quite possible that the 16tonner on the way from Sheffield could end up as a transfer donor for the others and the kit ends up in the spares box.  Or not; I like building Parkside kits, a job that can be done with a tray on the sofa while watching tv, or even on the patio if it's not too windy.

 

The lightness of the Parkside kits and the difficulty of providing ballast for open wagons modelled empty means that the kit wagons will go into the loaded train where the (real) coal will steady them up a bit.  As the coal trains are limited by siding space to 11 wagons, some of the existing stock will be emptied and transferred to use in the empty train.  I should end up with a spare for use in general freight, perhaps delivering coal to the Remploy industrial estate siding, hiding at the back of it for a few operating 'Cwmdimbath Timetable' days while the coal is unloaded and returning later.  I have a 'Fina' fuel oil tanker that already does this and as the siding disappears into the hidden section behind the break, the unloading facility is only modelled in my imagination, which can make it oil or coal as the mood takes me.  There are private sidings further down the branch that may require such occasional delivery, in which case the empty turns up at Cwmdimbath having been picked up by the, um, pickup.  But it still needs to not be a duplicate number of a wagon in either the loaded or MT coal train in case that appears at the same time.

 

When this sort out and building program of minerals is complete, of 23 minerals on the layout I will have represented 10 distinct different types, including 5 distinct variations of standard 16ton all steel wagons and not including livery variations, and none are fitted.  Who said wagons were boring?  And I'm thinking in terms of Dapol Felix Pole with a Parkside chassis as well. 

[The Johnster]

Putting the riveted 'French' 16 tonner together this evening, and I'm sorry to say I can't give it the unreserved thumbs up I've given the other 2 Parksides and 4 chassis I've made up.  4 grouses; 1) the wheels are a bit undersized when compared to Bachmann's, 2) The axles are the same length, and neither sit comfortably in the bearings.  They are too loose, despite the sideframes being as far in as they can be set. and I've had to angle the axleboxes in a little to stop them falling out when the wagon is picked up, and 3) this is presumably quite an old production as there are no NEM mounts in the kit.  I have some spare, so this is not a big deal.  The wagon rides at the correct height, by which I mean the same height as all my other stock, fitted with Bachmann 3-hole disc wheels.  4th grouse is that I had to trim the solebars to fit between the ends, which loses rivet detail at the ends of the solebars and risks putting your wheels out of alignment, but mine runs ok (so far, touch wood; it hasn't had a full test yet...).

 

This wagon will replace one of my P11136 Baccy XPOs, which will donate it's couplings and buffers; these buffers are turned metal and much better than the Parkside plastic blobs.  It will also donate it's coal load.  Once in service and in the train, the wagon should remain on the track by and large and the wheels will hopefully stay put!

 

It's all come good in the end, but only because I had Parkside NEM mounts and Bachmann disc wheels in stock.  I mention this not to be critical of Parkside, who offer one of the best value for money products about deze daze, but to inform anyone else thinking of getting one of these 'French' 16tonners that parts not in the kit will be needed to get you running properly.  If I was doing another one, I'd mount the bearings a little proud of the inside of the axlebox surface to get a tighter fit for the wheelsets.  I'll be watching this point on future kits.

 

 

[tomparryharry]

Aaah! Ze naughty French! Actually, I'd wondered if some kits are made for EM-P4  standard, with a pro-rata length in axle.  Strangely, an undersize wheel diameter also.  I'd guess as a short fix is to avail yourself of some EM wheelsets, and gauge them back to 00. I may have some old EM ones knocking about in the spares box.

 

I still haven't started any wagons here: I need a 'roundtwoit.

Edited June 5, 2019 by tomparryharry
Pore Spellinge

[The Johnster]

It'll prolly be ok on the Bachmanns, Ian, and these are in any case an improvement on the kit wheels which have a metal axle but are plastic!  If they give trouble, I reckon a fix is to pull the bearings out and re-fix them with a bit of Milliput preventing them sitting completely home in the hole to tighten things up.

 

Round tuits (I've always spelled them like this) are thin on the ground on the mean streets as well...

Edited June 6, 2019 by The Johnster

[31A]

11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It'll prolly be ok on the Bachmanns, Ian, and these are in any case an improvement on the kit wheels which have a metal axle but are plastic!  If they give trouble, I reckon a fix is to pull the bearings out and re-fix them with a bit of Milliput preventing them sitting completely home in the hole to tighten things up.

 

Round tuits (I've always spelled them like this) are thin on the ground on the mean streets as well...

 

I've had that problem occasionally (axles being too short) and have got round it by making plastikard washers to pack the bearings out from the axleguards.  Drill a 2mm hole in some scrap plastikard, 10 thou is usually suitable, then cut round the hole to reduce the size of the piece - it doesn't need to be neat as long as the piece ends up smaller than the axleguard - and interpose it between the rim of the bearing and the axleguard.  Add or subtract washers (or use a different thickness) until the axle runs nicely in the bearing.  Might be easier than using filler!  When it's been necessary, I've put it down to my hamfisted construction rather than the design of the kit, but may not always be the case!  As far as I know the standard length for 4mm scale wagon axles is 26m over the pointed ends, regardless whether 00 / EM / P4.

[The Johnster]

Good tip, Steve; I'll do it that way next time!  Another thing that might work as washers for this purpose is the remains of broken slitting discs, which usually form a little doughnut on the drill shaft.  I can't find any coupling drawhooks in the kit although the instructions infer/impute their presence.  I'll 'ave another look and then use the ones from the Bachmann donor...

[The Johnster]

‘Ere iz zee petit chou, een all ‘er weathered gloire, mes enfants.   

[timbowilts]

On 06/06/2019 at 12:32, The Johnster said:

I can't find any coupling drawhooks in the kit although the instructions infer/impute their presence.  I'll 'ave another look and then use the ones from the Bachmann donor...

Johnster, you have to have a broad imagination to recognise the poor blobs that masquerade as coupling hooks on the Parkside mouldings! I use Wizard or LMS ones

Tim T

[The Johnster]

Yes I think I can do better than the kit drawhooks!

 

I've put together another Parkside this evening, a BR Diagram 1/110 21ton riveted mineral.  This has some nice interior detail on the sides and non-door end, but plain plastic on the inside of the end door, which is a shame as it discourages the choice of modelling the wagon in an empty state.  So this'll replace another duplicate wagon in the loaded train, probably one of my Hornby LNER wooden 21tonners which have moulded handbrake levers and non-NEM couplers, but I haven't made the final decision yet.  

 

Kit went together easy enough, but is slightly different construction from the others I've done with ends not incorporating the buffer beams.  I have again replaced the kit's plastic wheels with Bachmanns.  Painting and transfers tomoz and weathering when all that's dried off properly.  I've still got a BR 5 planker to build and Rails of Sheffield have taken the money out of my account for the last order, two more 16ton minerals, one riveted and one 'standard'; the standard one may be used as a transfer donor for one of my duplicates, anyway these'll be here soon, tomoz or Monday I'm guessing.  

 

So plenty of wagon kits to keep me going for at least another week or so!  Been enjoying them; it's nice to have a kit you can build in an evening over one session while my coaches have been a bit more of a long game.  I don't like having jobs hanging on and would do everything in one session if I could; it aids my concentration and I like the feeling of accomplishment when they're, er, accomplished...

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by The Johnster