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South Wales Valleys in the 50s


The Johnster
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59905B67-8E6D-4BC7-B5E1-AB4520FEFFC4.jpeg.e487a83bb7951ef634cb66f34dc7a8f4.jpegNext, please.  Parkside 21ton riveted, BR Diag. 1/110.  Still needs varnishing to seal the transfers, and decent drawhooks.  Buffers, which didn’t look too bad, are a weak point on this kit, and two have already broken off; the shaft may be scale but is very flimsy in plastic.  These really need to be turned metal, and not just for appearance’s sake!

 

The ‘Return To South Wales Coalfields’ (I didn’t know we had them in the plural) notice is placed from memory and may be incorrect; there is no guidance in the instructions.  The white end door indicator stripe had to be trimmed to fit properly.  Interior has not been painted yet. 

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

The ‘Return To South Wales Coalfields’ (I didn’t know we had them in the plural) notice.......... 

P'raps the Pembrokeshire Coalfield was considered separately?  Although by 1948, it didn't really exist any more.

I guess to the authorities, Amman, Garw, Rhondda etc. were considered different.  I wonder if, to the locals but not the miners themselves, it was similar; how many people went over the mountain into the next valley system at all frequently?  My impression of the Valleys is that each can be quite separate communities from the next, the mountains forming a natural barrier that the industrial revolution didn't breach.

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5 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

P'raps the Pembrokeshire Coalfield was considered separately?  Although by 1948, it didn't really exist any more.

I guess to the authorities, Amman, Garw, Rhondda etc. were considered different.  I wonder if, to the locals but not the miners themselves, it was similar; how many people went over the mountain into the next valley system at all frequently?  My impression of the Valleys is that each can be quite separate communities from the next, the mountains forming a natural barrier that the industrial revolution didn't breach.

 

5 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

P'raps the Pembrokeshire Coalfield was considered separately?  Although by 1948, it didn't really exist any more.

I guess to the authorities, Amman, Garw, Rhondda etc. were considered different.  I wonder if, to the locals but not the miners themselves, it was similar; how many people went over the mountain into the next valley system at all frequently?  My impression of the Valleys is that each can be quite separate communities from the next, the mountains forming a natural barrier that the industrial revolution didn't breach.

I think you are so right on this point that I decided to quote you twice. The people of Brecon reckoned they could work out your valley by the differences in accent, and that just from asking for pints of beer! 

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Very true.  Yet...

 

Before the search for coal opened up the valley bottoms away from the northern edge the field, where ironmaking had already developed, these areas were mostly heavily wooded and boggy wildernesses.  The farming communities lived on the top of the mountains were the best grazing could be found, and centred on ancient villages like Mynyddislwyn, Llanwonno, Rudry or Llangwynyd,  The area's holy sites, such as at Penrhys, are in such places.  In that sense the high ground joined the valleys rather than separating them.  And a look at the OS map will show a network of tracks crossing the high ground between the later valley communities, it being easier to cross the mountain than go around if the weather was reasonable.  Men who could not find work in their own valley crossed the mountain to find it in the next one, settled, married, and started a regular hillwalking traffic to visit relatives.  

 

The mountains were undermined by the coal workings as well, so that mines connected in galleries below ground, and as the work moved along the seam nearer another shaft than the one it was first worked from, coal and men came up the new shaft, but the men still had to walk back over the mountain or get the bus around to get home.  From the 1920s on, with the coal trade in a slow but terminal decline, efforts of one sort or another were made to provide alternative employment, which tended to centralise on the larger towns like Maesteg, Pontypridd, or Caerphilly, which tapped the labour resources of more than one valley, further breaking down such social barriers as ever existed on an individual valley basis.  The massive wartime ROF factory at Tremains, Bridgend, attracted rail and bus workmen's services from all of the Central Glamorgan 'Bridgend' valleys as well as the Afan, Rhondda, and Ely; a railway station was built on the SWML to serve it and this was still in use in 1960 to serve the huge trading estate that had build up on the site.  At it's height of production, some 16,000 people worked there, far more than could have been found in the immediate area.

 

There are places where the ground between the valleys is not so high or precipitous, so places like Ystrad Mynach, Pontllanfraith, and Nelson almost coalesce with each other through arable countryside.  And the old hilltop villages still survive, almost unaffected by it all.  The tracks are not overgrown, which means people are still using them as short cuts.  Those larger towns were always shopping centres that attracted customers from the various valleys that converged on them, so the mountain barrier, while very real and solid, was not impenetrable.  

 

Not that there weren't places where it always actually was impenetrable, mind.  Mynydd Machen, for instance, has always been an effective barrier to a natural line of travel between the Sirhowy and Rhymni valleys, despite several schemes to build tunnels under it, one of the reasons Newport developed as a port before Cardiff did.  1,600 feet of Pennant Sandstone, precipitous on both sides, has withstood any such attempt and even modern road improvements circumvent it.  

 

This brings up another way in which communities in adjoining valleys were, and still are, connected; railway tunnels at Blaenrhondda, Caerau, and between Aberdare and Merthyr were supplemented by road passes built as employment relief measures in the pre-war depression which opened up opportunities for local bus routes, weather permitting (they are prone to icing and snow blockage in winter and can be a bit hairy even in summer on a rough night).   Treherbert-Rhigos, Maerdy-Aberdare, Treorchy-Abergwynfi/Ogmore Vale.  There's also the Heads of the Valleys route of course, both road and rail though that's just a cycle track now, connecting Merthyr and Abergavenny right through the ironworks country of the early industrial revolution.

 

 

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Today I are mostly building the next mineral, Parkside diag 109 riveted 16ton.  This is a little different again, with a choice of pressed or made up end door panels and parts for a full chassis despite having buffer beams integrally moulded with the ends.  It's got some nice internal rivet detail including the inside of the end door, and will thus be allocated to the empties train so this is not buried in coal.  To this end, I have cut down a ballast weight from a withdrawn Bachmann to clear the coupling mountings and superglued it to the underside of the floor.  There are now 2 remaining kits, which I am hoping to have completed by the end of the week but have made myself no promises, a standard welded type 16ton mineral and, pushed to the back of the queue while I sorted the duplicates in the mineral trains out, a BR 5-plank open with corrugated steel ends. 

 

This latest riveted mineral introduces another sort of variation to the mineral fleet, a steel wagon with brakes on one side only.  It can be made with brakes both sides, but it is not clear from the instructions or potted history Parkside provide which numbers are suitable for which type, so I'm going to guesstimate and have a single side brake type carrying the lowest running number (haven't even looked what they are, yet).  Whichever wagon comes out of the empty train, most likely a standard welded Baccy 16tonner, will be allocated to the general merchandise fleet as outlined earlier, for the odd delivery of coal to the industrial estate or one of the private sidings down the branch, or maybe gravel for building work down at the colliery.

 

This flurry of kitbuilding should (note that I haven't gone as far as making a statement that it will) mark the end of my wagon acquisition, and I will have a reasonable ratio for my period of opens to vans, wooden to steel minerals, fitted to unfitted, and Big 4 to BR liveries, all overlapping a bit.  A livery not represented yet is early BR unpainted austerity wooden, and I am considering repainting one of my 7-plank XPOs to show this, but the chances of getting one with a correct number are not high!  As I believe all of my current freight and mineral stock is currently correctly numbered with no duplicates (allowing for the odd generic RTR XPO) , this is bothering me a little.  A bit of research into what is available in the way of XPO numbers from that nice Mr Isherwood in conjunction with a visit to that nice Mr Bartlett's website might resolve matters, but I'm busy building wagons this week.

 

There may well be further purchases, of course, and my policy for the future is that I will buy one open for every 2 vans.  Parkside do an LNER vanfit with different doors to Bachmann's that I've got my eye on, and I want a plywood 'Ashford' as well, but these can be put back until the 94xx is bought and paid for; this must take priority now.  

 

The tea break that generated this missive was to allow the cement to go off on the solebars before springing the wheels in, which it should have by now, so, vaguely onwards and a bit upwards...   Plan is to finish and paint the wagon this evening, and weather it tomorrow, but my plans are not the most reliable; watch this space!

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Johnster, the sides on my recent build Parkside 1/109 mineral have taken on a distinct inwards bow! It is therefore unsuitable for use unloaded, darn it! I’ve just received another four from Hattons, doh!

Tim T

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Finished the build; the drawhooks were much less objectionable on this kit and I used them.  A weathered Bachmann 16tonner, B120883 from a 3 wagon set has been taken out of the empties train to make space for this wagon tomorrow, and transferred to the General Goods Department; it already has a Bachmann gravel load in it!  The plain 16ton mineral that arrived with the riveted one this morning is in fact surplus to my immediate requirements, and will be stored pending possible future use if the layout is ever enlarged and more minerals can be fitted in, so the next, and for now final, build, will be the 5-planker.  

 

I now have a spare 'fabricated' end with the end doors moulded in, and could use this to rebuild an older Bachmann 'MoT' 16 tonner whose end door has fallen off, but the chassis of this is a bit rough (it does have separate handbrake levers) compared to current Baccy production, and I don't think I'll bother.  It was given to me with a load of various scrap firmly superglued into it years ago, and has no real role to play on Cwmdimbath; any of that sort of work that crops up can be done by B120883.  The MoT livery is represented by a current Bachmann slope sider.  I like a bit of variety in my minerals!

 

Back to the Diag 109, the interior has been painted dark grey, and the next job is the exterior, matt black for the chassis, and dabs of white on the handbrake handle ends, then the transfers and that'll be enough for today.

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1 hour ago, timbowilts said:

Johnster, the sides on my recent build Parkside 1/109 mineral have taken on a distinct inwards bow! It is therefore unsuitable for use unloaded, darn it! I’ve just received another four from Hattons, doh!

Tim T

Mine seems solid enough, touch wood (he says putting a finger to his head).  It's not the end of the world if they do bow in a little; I can always load it and use a Bachmann from the loaded train with the coal taken out in it's place.  The sides are a bit unsupported if you just glue them to the ends and then glue the ends to the floor, as the instructions suggest, but I run cement along the side/floor join as well.  If you're not doing this, try it on the Hatton's 4.

 

But you've highlighted what I consider a problem, that of the lack of interior detail in open wagons generally and minerals in particular.  Minerals run half their mileage empty, though they spend more than half of the time loaded as a rule, and general merchandise wagons loaded to branch termini rarely find return loads, so a proper representation requires a good number of empty open wagons.  I appreciate that it is difficult to manage this in RTR toolings because of the way the bodyshell has to be extracted from the mould, but there is some detail in there and it can be seen if the wagon is running empty.  I have opens that live permanently under tarpaulins because of this' and are thus restricted to working in or out of sidings not actually represented on Cwmdimbath , and some empty minerals (Bachmann 16 tonners) with no interior detail whatsoever.  Kits really should provide this, though, and my recent riveted 'French' 16tonner had to be loaded because despite having excellent rivet detail on the sides and the plain end, and representation of the cupboard doors inside, it had none on the door end which is completely plain and, IMHO, an annoying missed opportunity.  I have planked wagons with plank detail represented but no interior indication of the doors, both kit and RTR.  

 

Hornby, who can't manage a 9' wheelbase mineral, do a bit better in this respect; I have a 21ton hopper and 4 LNER 21ton 9 plankers with very good detail inside, including planking on the floors and the hopper doors on the LNER wagons.  These 4 are quite old production, pre-NEM with moulded handbrake levers, and need bringing up to scratch in that respect.

Edited by The Johnster
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On 09/06/2019 at 19:30, The Johnster said:

Men who could not find work in their own valley crossed the mountain to find it in the next one, settled, married, and started a regular hillwalking traffic to visit relatives.  

I forgot to add that two things could unite men from different Valleys of South Wales:

1. The National Union of Mineworkers

2. An International Rugby match, especially against England.

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Re. wagon interior detail; quite agree!

 

I have made up some scribing templates from scraps of 40 thou. Plastikard; the one in the picture is for 16 tonners but have got similar for 13T Open Highs, etc.  You put the template inside the wagon against one corner & scribe round it for the top and one side of the doors, then turn it over and scribe round the other side of the jig to produce the other side of the door.

 

This is on a Bachmann pre weathered from a few years ago which on reflection is perhaps not the best but hopefully you get the picture.

 

1070479196_16TdoorjigRMweb.jpg.25910b6a59985d5fda198c367d27cf23.jpg

 

IMG_2319.jpg.b7b0925a52fa98c7c7b6f265e36a11cc.jpg

 

 

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On 10/06/2019 at 20:38, Northmoor said:

I forgot to add that two things could unite men from different Valleys of South Wales:

1. The National Union of Mineworkers

2. An International Rugby match, especially against England.

Even if said match is Scotland, Ireland, France, Hungary, or Italy against the old enemy.

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The turn of the 5 plank today, built without tarp bar as fitted diag. 1/044.   Like the last one, the drawhooks are not too bad and have been used, as have the buffers.  Yet another style of underframe, but no real problems presented, and I have no moans about the internal detail on this kit, which is excellent.  It also presented no problems with the wheels springing in correctly, but again I had to use Bachmann's to get the correct ride height.  It has salvaged Bachmann NEM couplers; unlike the other kits no NEM mounts or tension locks were supplied in the bag, only adaptor mounts for Hornby or Bachmann, presumably pre NEM.

 

I've got as far as painting the interior but that's enough for today; the squeeze wants taking out for some minor debauchery and I've got to start getting ready.  Should finish up tomoz.  The body colour is a pretty close match to a Bachmann BR liveried fitted LMS open I have, so I'll be putting the transfers straight on and matt varnishing it to take the shine off, then light weathering.  Haven't decided on a number yet; Parky's potted history gives specific numbers for unfitted but not tarp bar-less versions; I feel a session on Mr Bartlett's site coming on to see which of the alternatives provided with the kit is closest.  If this does not answer, I'll assume that the 1/044s were later than the 1/039s and go for the highest number...  

 

I don't get too obsessive about this sort of thing but it's nice to get it right if you can!  Potted says that many wagons lost their tarp bars later in their lives but I am modelling 50s.

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Finished 1/044.  Photo cruelly exposes a horrid joint on the nearest corner!  Haven’t painted this except for the buffers and buffer beams, though I’ll be putting a dab of white on the ends of the handbrake levers next time I’ve got the white paint out.   The moulded colour of the body parts isn’t far off BR bauxite, another shade that’s difficult to pin down exactly, and I just applied the transfers and sprayed matt varnish on it; I’m quite happy with the faded painted planks effect that resulted as the base for a little weathering. 

 

I don’t need any more wagons now, and haven’t really got room for any either.  Wonder how long that’s going to last...

E47DF6FE-74BA-4CFB-8884-8993D7DFA746.jpeg

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On 09/06/2019 at 16:31, The Johnster said:

59905B67-8E6D-4BC7-B5E1-AB4520FEFFC4.jpeg.e487a83bb7951ef634cb66f34dc7a8f4.jpegNext, please.  Parkside 21ton riveted, BR Diag. 1/110.  Still needs varnishing to seal the transfers, and decent drawhooks.  Buffers, which didn’t look too bad, are a weak point on this kit, and two have already broken off; the shaft may be scale but is very flimsy in plastic.  These really need to be turned metal, and not just for appearance’s sake!

 

The ‘Return To South Wales Coalfields’ (I didn’t know we had them in the plural) notice is placed from memory and may be incorrect; there is no guidance in the instructions.  The white end door indicator stripe had to be trimmed to fit properly.  Interior has not been painted yet. 

That's still a very nice kit; originally in the Ian Kirk range, dating from the early 1970s. I don't think it's been remastered under Parkside. I don't recollect seeing any of these wagons, nor their welded equivalents, having Routeing Instructions; this was unlike their fitted brethren or their bigger cousins, which were almost all allocated to specific traffics.

Looking at the photo, I wonder if there's any potential for conversion to other types; I've recently bought the new Larkin tome, which shows a lot of variations on a theme.

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The bigger cousins, fitted 24½ tonners, were common enough at Tondu working circuit power station coal traffic to Aberthaw A station from the early 60s well into the 80s, but these impressive brutes are sadly a bit to modern for my layout.   They worked on block trains, originally hauled by 42xx and later by D68xx Class 37 diesels. 

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4557, unusually clean for a Tondu loco and in ‘best guess’ lined black livery, is ready for the off to Bridgend with an early evening passenger bathed in the warm light of a fine summer’s evening.  This is the return leg of the evening Tremains ROF workman’s, and is booked time to collect clearance traffic as required from Remploy’s, which it has done this evening. 

1446ADCB-B55F-45BA-A237-838A061E8EB2.jpeg

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I've been giving a bit of thought to redesigning the fiddle yard for better use of the space and increased capacity.  It has developed in a bit of an unplanned way, and the original 4 roads have been added to piecemeal; there are now 7.  I think I can extend the length of at least 6 of them and possibly put in a new short road capable of taking an auto train.  Another minor issue is that the current setup requires all trains to pass over a 3rd to 4th radius curved setrack turnout in the fiddle yard throat, and my Ratio 4 wheelers don't like it.  

 

The idea is to build a new baseboard to overcome the problems of the extensions and their joins.  There's no precise plan yet, and the possibility of a sector plate or part sector plate, or of cassettes, needs to be investigated thoroughly before any work starts, but the current situation is not something I regard as set in stone and beyond developing.

 

Watch this space, but don't hold your breath!

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Couple of 8750s.  9649, just run in on the goods loop with a parcels for Remploy, was built 1946 and allocated new to Tondu.  Livery is probably right; never seen a photo of her in those days to confirm, but that was the standard livery in ‘46.  She’d have probably carried this GWR livery until about 1953. I’m also fairly confident about the top feed, standard on new build 8750s by 1946.  BR ownership is confirmed by the red backed number plates.  She also carries a BR smokebox number plate and shedcode, which cannot be seen in this photo. 

 

Sister 9681, I loco I remember well from her East Dock days, was new build to Tondu in 1949, by which time the unicycling lion had come out.  She’s on a passenger which will leave in a few minutes; the leading coach is the recently built and not quite finished ‘ersatz’ C63!

 

The loco and train have got themselves turned around; the usual valleys convention was smokebox first up the valley.  

 

I’m on the lookout for suitable Tondu prototype 57xx/8750s from my period without topfeeds.  My best photos are of 5756 at Abergwynfi, the 57xx I have modelled, which clearly had topfeed in the mid 50s.  But I’d like at least one pannier with no topfeed if only to prove to Bachmann that I refuse to succumb to their topfeed tyranny...

 

 

 

8D00A7B1-1DB4-4497-A58A-5EAA0A303343.jpeg

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I guess it will be a 'join up' of 2721 body (Hornby) with a chassis from a Baccy 57xx, with an earlier mainline  cab & bunker. I think I've got a spare Mainline body hereabouts you can have. Something for you to do whilst you're awaiting the 94xx......

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

 

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You bad man, ian, you have aroused my interest with another kind offer.  I'd planned to leave the 'no top feed' project til after the 94xx (May 2020, allegedly) and use the 57xx chassis currently under the Limbach 94xx that was the result of another of your kind offers.  There is a photo of my 2721, 2761 withdrawn in May 1950 on the reception roads at Swindon in the August, which shows that that loco carried a top feed,   I also have a Wills 1854 without a top feed needing a new chassis, courtesy of more kindness this time from Philou, but that is probably 18 months away at least.

 

If I could request your forbearance on the matter of 57xx/8750 bodies until after the 94xx turns up, I would be most grateful; give it to me now and there is the temptation of buying another chassis off 'Bay...  This would also have the advantage of giving me time to try and research suitable candidates for a topfeedectomy.  Ideally I would ultimately want a topfeedless 57xx and an 8750, far too many locos for my timetable.  We don't know any modellers who have too many locos, do we!

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Well, I thought of separating the top off both  2721, and 57xx bodies, then using the 57xx cab & bunker to give you an early version 57xx. Naturally, you'll need the Baccy chassis. I've got your 64xx cab knocking about here, and I've got a Mainline body here also. Bu**ered if I can find it though, it's here somewhere! Whatever you decide, it'll need to get the footplate-wheels relationship right, then it's all systems go.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian. 

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Ah, I see, sorry, bit slow on the uptake on Mondays (and any other day with a y in it).  No, I want to keep my 2721 as 2761.  This is as you know a worked up Hornby and it's body tooling has the splashers correctly incorrectly (if you see what I mean) positioned for the incorrect Triang Hornby generic Jinty chassis it was originally designed for and which makes it unsuitable for use with a correct (for a JInty/1F, but not for a 2721 or 57xx) Bachmann Jinty/1F chassis.  I have seen details of them re-chassised with correct Bachmann 57xx mechs that are incorrect for this model as the wheel/splasher relationship is not right, nor is the fishbelly coupling rod, and as my (recent production) Hornby chassis runs sweetly enough and there are irresolvable skirt and tank pitch issues with this model, I'll keep her as is for an occasional outing on the workman's or a quick clearance trip to relieve her crew's boredom at Control's behest to break the monotony of pilot work at Tondu.  Despite her undeniable shortcomings and probably having been a bag of nails with the ride qualities of an iron mangle hated by everyone at Tondu post 1948, I'm rather fond of the old lady...

 

She has no topfeed, of course, the genesis of your cunning plan, and 2761 in her final guise has been photographed to prove she had no top feed, at least not as withdrawn from Tondu in May 1950.  Don't anyone take that as confirmation that she never had a boiler with a top feed, though, as however unlikely I consider it she may have carried a top feed boiler previously; some 2721s did.  Her last overhaul was at Caerphilly between 1942-5 (the photo is at Swindon Works reception sidings August 1950 and shows her in austerity black with 'grotesque' G W R initials, signifying a Caerphilly job in that time frame) so she's more back story than I know about in pannier guise.

 

The 1854 was going to be 1730, withdrawn on 31/6/48 and pushing the period envelope a bit, in that I doubt she saw much action in 1948, but Rail UK list 1870 as xfer from STJ, date unknown, but not withdrawn from Tondu until 31/10/50, a lot more 'viable'.  I need to try to find out if she had a 57xx type cab; as 2761 is already in service with a half cab I wouldn't mind that, but whoever put her body together made a very neat job and she deserves a proper chassis.  The existing one is probably beyond saving and crude by modern standards.  This loco also has no top feed, but I really would like some 57xx/8750s without top feed.

 

There's also 6762, a steam brake only 6750 variant 8750, new to Tondu 11/48 and at the shed until xfer to Swansea East Dock, a more likely location for a loco with no vacuum brake, 10/59, a long stay by Tondu standards.  My quest for biodiversity requires yet another pannier, but I reckon it's a pretty safe bet that a loco built in 1948 carried a top feed until at least 1955...

 

She's a bit of a mystery, though; why allocate her new to Tondu.  Pilot work is the obvious answer, but having a loco not available for passenger work in 1948, when it was still all loco hauled at Tondu seems an unnecessary restriction and there can't, surely, have been a job that specifically required a steam brake only loco at the shed.  These and the 67xx tended to gravitate towards dock or yard shunting work; doesn't sound much like Tondu to me!  But there she was just the same, for 11 years and at least one overhaul!

 

So, I'll do my Bachmann 57xx/8750 top feed removals the hard way, with a bit of cutting, a good deal of filing and sanding down, probably some filling, and a lot of bad language.  Looking forward to the results rather than the work...

 

You can't have too many panniers, you know.  They're not all the same, honest!!!

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