South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

Tempting though 04s and As, not to mention Rhymney Rs, are, Tondu never had any so there is no chance of indiscipline there!  44xx and Collett 31xx are another matter...  I wouldn't mind another 42xx either.

[The Johnster]

The first time both 57xx have been at Cwmdibath.  5756 has made up it's pickup working and only needs the lamp putting on to be ready for the off.  The driver is in the signalbox awaiting the token, which will be shortly delivered by the 5705's driver when he has brought his passenger working from Bridgend to a stand; the photo catches this train running in.  Once the token formalities are complete and the loop starter pulled off, 5756 will be right away Tondu with the pickup, complete with the fireman's bike on the bunker hooks.

[The Johnster]

Cardiff show today; A Grand Day Out!  Good to chat to old chums and the standard of layouts was very high.  Promised myself I wasn't going to buy anything and guess what happened...

 

It's another K's whitemetal A31 auto trailer, nicely made up in 1945-7 chocolate/cream livery and in perfect condition, and in what I think might be it's original box.  Yet to decide where to go with it as far as prototype is concerned. as the research I did for the other one shows that there were never any A31s with double doors and American bogies as the kit depicts.  So at the very least it will have to have new doors (possibly donated by the Airfix A28/30 that'll be withdrawn from service) or new bogies to represent a double door trailer.  A31s were built at Swindon and by Gloucester RCW, the Swindon trailers having the usual wide single door but the Gloucesters having double doors as per the K's kit, but no Gloucesters had American bogies.  

 

This is not to say that all the Swindon ones did, and there were 3 types of bogies used on A31s, the Americans, the 8'6" 'Fishbellys', and Collett 7'.  My initial thought is to go for a South Walian example with Collett bogies and keep the double doors, as my other one, W 107 W, has had Stafford Rd/Shapeways Fishbellys fitted and I have Americans represented on the layout by retrofit Staffords on an ancient Mainline Siphon H.  We'll see.  I've already decided to keep the 1945-7 livery.  

 

Whatever bogies it ends up with, they'll probably be Stafford Roads. as these come with NEM mounts.  It remains to be seen if 5555 is powerful enough to manage the two cast whitemetal lumps coupled together; I doubt a Baccy 64xx could cope, or anyone's 14xx without the traction tyres!  5555 can manage W 107 W plus an Airfix A28/30, but will slip if handled roughly. 

 

I'll start a thread over on Mod & Det RTR in case anyone's interested.  It'll need a floor and an interior, and as it's in a different state of being made up to 107, which was a full reconstruction project, and I don't want to dismantle it, I'll have to make up plug in floor/seating modules that can be attached from beneath the coach.  W 107 W has plated toplights but I'm not doing that on this one.  It's currently carrying no. 100, probably from the transfers in the original kit, but mounted in the wrong place!

 

Nothing much else has happened at Cwmdimbath since the last post.  I've upped the voltage for the Dapol signals from 5 to 6 to ensure reliable operation but the lamps are now too bright for my taste, an issue which must be addressed soon as it's beginning to bother me.  Current thinking is to dull them with a thin coat of white or light grey over the leds and maybe try to obscure light spilling from between the lamp and the rear of the spectacle plate glass.

[The Johnster]

Trip to town today; I've got to go back in tomoz but I'm hoping I can get away with it until after xmas and the sales now.  It's already packed with the half term kids and becoming increasingly unpleasant because of the beggars, who seem to be everywhere.  Back to the point; I popped in to Cardiff Antiques just in case they had anything worth buying, and came out with two items.  First, for £7.50, a Baccy GW van in BR grey and nicely weathered, a livery I don't have this vehicle in.  I have 2 others, a BR bauxite and late GW slate grey.  It's not the most recent tooling, and is lacking some chassis detail, but has separate handbrake levers and NEM couplings.  The proprietor would not let me buy it on the card unless I spent a minimum of £10, which persuaded me to lash out on an Oxford short wheelbase split screen SWB soft top Land Rover.

 

Here they are.  The Land Rover will be heavily weathered to look as if it earns it's living on a hill farm, and all that needs doing to the van is a dab of white paint on the handbrake lever ends.

 

 

I rather like the Land Rover, which seems better detailed than the LWB BR one I already have.  It has the hole in the rear lower panel for the power take off for the driven trailer that was available, which the LWB doesn't; I have a friend who's into Land Rovers and he'll be pleased to see this!  The soft top comes off and the aluminium window frames are picked out nicely; a bit of mud and some scratches on the corners where the bare aluminium shows through should complete the illusion.  The grille is a bit overdone, but can easily enough be toned down.

 

I've done a bit of remedial work on the fiddle yard throat, which has been disturbed by a bit of movement between the boards, and matters are much improved and more level.  I'm considering a major relaying and alteration of this area and converting the Remploy estate siding into the colliery exchange siding, with a kickback at the station end for an NCB loco.  Peckett or Andrew Barclay would be perfect of course; I suspect a Hunslet Austerity is overkill for this colliery and too modern for my period, but I'm also drawn to the Sentinel that worked at Ogmore Vale, not a million miles from Cwmdimbath, as well.

Edited October 30, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Coaching stock news; I've just bagged another K's E116 B set coach on 'Bay.  This one's built and in GW livery, has some nice turned brass buffers by the look of things.  It'll be repainted to form a proper B set with the other one, also a 'Bay find but I paid less for this one.  E116s did not run in South Wales, but neither did the bowended Collets in the Tondu valleys (seen photo of one at Maerdy, though).  Eventually, following the acquisition of a round tuit, I'll make a proper Tondu B set with Comet E147s.  Not sure if the new girl has internal detail; it does have a floor, which I know didn't come with the kit, but seats and compartment dividers are something I've got used to now and knocking them up will not be too much trouble.  At least I'll have a B set that looks different to most other peoples'.

 

First time I've watched the 'final countdown' in a 'Bay auction; I really need to get a life, or at least do some modelling!  Had the Dick Barton theme playing for the final minute, then the Hallelujia chorus...  Somebody next door is baking bread and I've started salivating, so off to raid the fridge now...

[The Johnster]

It’s arrived; compartment dividers and a floor included.  Needs repaint into BR 1956 unlined maroon to match it’s running mate, seats, new glazing as the existing is fogged and scratched, usual transfers and new Stafford Road/Shapeways bogies to carry NEM couplings.  Happy bunny; not the finest scale model in the world but looks like an E116, makes a proper B set that isn’t Airfix derived, and cost less than 3 beers even at the low prices we have in Cardiff.  

[The Johnster]

More stock from ‘Bay, ‘buy it now’ bargain Replica (ex Mainline) outside frame Siphon G in GW livery, for only 3 squids!  As they say up the valleys, neis iawn...

[The Johnster]

OF Siphon G came in the post today.  At that price I'm not complaining about missing buffers; I'm going to be replacing them anyway as part of the upgrade.  A missing coupling has already been replaced.  Like a lot of stock from that era, it's pretty good above the solebar but let down by crude and basic underframe.  Nice crisp body moulding and should be easy enough to replace handrails.  It's in pre-1934 livery and will be pretty heavily weathered as even in 1948 it must have been in service for over 14 years at least without a repaint, so I can go to town on it.

 

Plan is to do much the same as I did to the other Siphons; new buffers, underframe detail, my patent lamp irons, and replacement Stafford Road Shapeways bogies with NEM pockets.  It'll be handy for the Remploy traffic and, having fold down shelves inside, can also turn up on the occasional pigeon special.  

 

The Dimbath Valley Railway Acquisition Committee has been given funding by the board for more 'Bay purchases so long as costs are kept below £5 per item, and has sourced some coach bodies, apparently BSL/Phoenix aluminium.  There are 4, 2x Collett bowended C63 all thirds, and 2x Collett flatended all thirds, not sure of diagram.  They will, eventually, be completed with Comet components, but the next priority has to be an A44 cyclops auto trailer, followed by an E147 B set.  Re B sets, I will crack on over the w/e with the repaint (1956 unlined maroon) and numbering of the recently acquired E116, and the set will be in service soon.  These sets had mini-buffers and a bar link close coupling between the coaches and were semi-permanently coupled, but mine, while featuring the mini buffers, will not be permanently coupled.

[The Johnster]

Recent discussion on this very forum has convinced me that Cwmdimbath needs an occasional visit from a cattle wagon, so one has been purchased.  It’s a Baccy LMS fitted one in an incorrect LNER livery, but my intention is to renumber it with an ‘M’ prefix as an ex LMS wagon in BR bauxite livery, as it has a vacuum cylinder.  I believe this body tooling dates back to Mainline’s original range, but the underframe seems up to current blue box spec. 
 

Perhaps there’s a slaughterhouse somewhere down the branch, or it can deliver stock, which could be sheep or pigs as well as cows, to local hill farms.  I like it; it has a lot of character with it’s outside body framing and slats.  
 

Now to look on HMRS Paul’s site for suitable numbers and details!

[The Johnster]

Apparently the body is too long and the wheelbase too short.  Life’s too short to worry about it, though.  

[tomparryharry]

On 04/01/2020 at 18:41, The Johnster said:

Recent discussion on this very forum has convinced me that Cwmdimbath needs an occasional visit from a cattle wagon, so one has been purchased.  It’s a Baccy LMS fitted one in an incorrect LNER livery, but my intention is to renumber it with an ‘M’ prefix as an ex LMS wagon in BR bauxite livery, as it has a vacuum cylinder.  I believe this body tooling dates back to Mainline’s original range, but the underframe seems up to current blue box spec. 
 

Perhaps there’s a slaughterhouse somewhere down the branch, or it can deliver stock, which could be sheep or pigs as well as cows, to local hill farms.  I like it; it has a lot of character with it’s outside body framing and slats.  
 

Now to look on HMRS Paul’s site for suitable numbers and details!

Lots of sheep up on the slopes. I'm surprised you've only got the one van...

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Lots of sheep up on the slopes. I'm surprised you've only got the one van...

Not all that much transporting of them, though; they’re kept for wool up there, not meat.  An occasional delivery of fresh stock or to a slaughterhouse further down the valley will suffice.  Interesting that livestock vehicles were still described as wagons over a century after roofs were put on them... 

[Compound2632]

On 09/01/2020 at 01:36, The Johnster said:

Interesting that livestock vehicles were still described as wagons over a century after roofs were put on them... 

 

There are open wagons and covered wagons. I'm not at all sure when ordinary covered goods wagons began to be officially termed vans - probably post-Grouping? In earlier days, the tern "van" seems to have been reserved for vehicles dedicated to specific perishable or special traffics: "meat van", "fruit van", "gunpowder van".

[The Johnster]

It makes sense that the terms derive from road use; coach, carriage, van, wagon etc.  Which begs the question of where the idea of a truck, troublesome or otherwise, comes from.  It's railway usage seems to have been restricted to Carriage Trucks, later Covered Carriage Trucks, CCTs (back in the day, the great and good preferred to sit in their own horse drawn carriage on flat railway trucks to mixing with the hoi polloi, even in first class), and for platform/depot handling equipment such as sack trucks; we are now in the world of trolleys and barrows.  Truck is the word used in US railroad practice to describe what we call a bogie.

 

It sort of doesn't matter much; if someone uses the term coal truck I understand that they mean mineral wagon.  My squeeze, who is Polish, calls all railway vehicles that are not 'lokomotiwas' (you pronounce w as a v and vice versa, or maybe wice wersa, in Polish) 'wagones', as do CIWL whose vehicles are as far removed from my concept of a wagon as you can get.  She likes to drive my trains, and has a good feel for it, but I have to supervise because she doesn't know what the next move should be, though she has learned 'run around'.  This means that there are occasional questions to my instruction, so for instance. 'green lokomotiwa backwards to coaches in platform' might result in 'what is coaches', answer; 'red wagones, long'.  'Ah, ok'.

[Compound2632]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

IMy squeeze, who is Polish, 

 

I've just read this to my lexicographer spouse. Her comment is to observe that "coach" is a word of Hungarian origin.

[The Johnster]

Aha, those mad Magyars... 

 

I think 'carriage' originates in military artillery use, as in gun carriage.

[The Johnster]

Back to the faux LNER LMS cattle wagon; I've repainted the body in a more BR looking bauxite, and discovered I've no matt black to do the solebars with; not sure how that happened but there'll be a bus ride to Antics tomoz...  Later tonight when the bauxite's gone off I'll do the roof in dark grey, and send off to that nice Mr Isherwood for some transfers.  

 

I know that the use of lime to disinfect these wagons after use ceased some time between the wars or possibly earlier due to concerns that it was harming the beasts' feet.  Their welfare was always a recognised concern (more so than for 3rd class passengers) and there were rules governing how long they could be kept in the wagons without exercise, feeding, and watering, and I believe that cleaning of the wagons had to take place at the same time.  The question is what was used in place of lime, and did it leave marks or stains on the lower parts of the wagons; if so, I'd like to incorporate it in the general weathering.  

 

I don't have a proper cattle dock with the drainage and any stock that does come up to Cwmdimbath will have to be taken directly off the loading dock by the farmers, but I am considering that the wagon will more frequently be used to deliver stock to a slaughterhouse down the valley, and will appear empty with the pickup and then be taken away again when the shunting is finished.  There's already a sawmill down there and a foundry is being considered in order to include a sand wagon every now and then.

[Northroader]

You can have all the sand you want at Margam, see?

[The Johnster]

There is quite a lot of it around there!

[BMS]

I m making a rather simpler model than most of the correspondents but I am particularly interested in ballast colour in the SW valleys, and rather less SW mainline, esp. pre-grouping. My memory from the 50s would be black (coal dust I imagine) everywhere except where recently replaced. And composed mainly of ash. 

Comments?

[tomparryharry]

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Back to the faux LNER LMS cattle wagon; I've repainted the body in a more BR looking bauxite, and discovered I've no matt black to do the solebars with; not sure how that happened but there'll be a bus ride to Antics tomoz...  Later tonight when the bauxite's gone off I'll do the roof in dark grey, and send off to that nice Mr Isherwood for some transfers.  

 

I know that the use of lime to disinfect these wagons after use ceased some time between the wars or possibly earlier due to concerns that it was harming the beasts' feet.  Their welfare was always a recognised concern (more so than for 3rd class passengers) and there were rules governing how long they could be kept in the wagons without exercise, feeding, and watering, and I believe that cleaning of the wagons had to take place at the same time.  The question is what was used in place of lime, and did it leave marks or stains on the lower parts of the wagons; if so, I'd like to incorporate it in the general weathering.  

 

I don't have a proper cattle dock with the drainage and any stock that does come up to Cwmdimbath will have to be taken directly off the loading dock by the farmers, but I am considering that the wagon will more frequently be used to deliver stock to a slaughterhouse down the valley, and will appear empty with the pickup and then be taken away again when the shunting is finished.  There's already a sawmill down there and a foundry is being considered in order to include a sand wagon every now and then.

You foundry will be using flour to use as a parting powder for castings. Not the best flour, just the sweepings off the floor. Sand,. Fullers Earth, ,and the primary material to make the product. Iron Ore, coke, etc.

[The Johnster]

No sand wagon then unless I can send one up to the colliery occasionally.  The NCB. promised pit head baths, and a shower block is under construction down there, along with a new canteen and lockers.  This sees a load of gravel to backfill the footings now and then, and is an excuse for opens with bricks, timber, and pipes as well; sand for the concrete is not too much to expect, nor is the odd van with cement bags. 
 

As for ballast, in pre-grouping days the bigger independents’ main lines were up to good main line standards, with locally sourced limestone being the usual material.  In station and similar areas where staff were about on the track it was often made up close to rail head level with ash.  Sidings were laid with ash up to the sleeper top level.  Coal storage sidings tended to be blackened with coal dust or slurry as a result of dirty water dripping from wagons of recently washed coal. 
 

Smaller railways, such as the BP&GV, had more lightly laid track and often used ironworks slag or similar materials as ballast.  This would degrade quickly into the appearance od ash ballast.
 

So, for the most part passenger lines had well maintained limestone ballast, grey when fresh weathering to a darker grey-brown.  Freight and mineral lines had  dark coloured ash ballast and were indifferently maintained. 

[tomparryharry]

7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

No sand wagon then unless I can send one up to the colliery occasionally.  The NCB. promised pit head baths, and a shower block is under construction down there, along with a new canteen and lockers.  This sees a load of gravel to backfill the footings now and then, and is an excuse for opens with bricks, timber, and pipes as well; sand for the concrete is not too much to expect, nor is the odd van with cement bags. 
 

As for ballast, in pre-grouping days the bigger independents’ main lines were up to good main line standards, with locally sourced limestone being the usual material.  In station and similar areas where staff were about on the track it was often made up close to rail head level with ash.  Sidings were laid with ash up to the sleeper top level.  Coal storage sidings tended to be blackened with coal dust or slurry as a result of dirty water dripping from wagons of recently washed coal. 
 

Smaller railways, such as the BP&GV, had more lightly laid track and often used ironworks slag or similar materials as ballast.  This would degrade quickly into the appearance od ash ballast.
 

So, for the most part passenger lines had well maintained limestone ballast, grey when fresh weathering to a darker grey-brown.  Freight and mineral lines had  dark coloured ash ballast and were indifferently maintained. 

 

Sorry, yes, you would see sand, probably 'as required'.  Cement bags did indeed go 'underground' to provide blast walls  in the event of fire.  I can't remember the term, though.... I can remember lots of places where the 'cess was black, not ballast, where the cant of the curve allowed washed-out dust to discolour the track. Pontypridd is one place I well remember, on the down loop, and the up loop as well, when there was a run-round from Rhondda to Abercwmboi.

[Philou]

This my go at ballasting - main line at the back - sidings to the front. It's graded builders sand as it's all there is around here. Limestone as favoured by most UK lines wasn't always so as it needed to be sourced locally therefore saving in transport costs. Granite was also used and that can have a surprising colour range: greys through to pinks and greens. Ballast, when down for a time will change colour due to oxidation and being affected by whatever would run over it - rusty stains from inevitable leaks from steam locos to greasy black from diesel locos, particularly if at a stand for sometime (stations are a good example). Sand, ash, clinker would also have been used (not necessarily so on running lines of course). If you get hold of old photos of steam sheds you would be forgiven for thinking that there was no ballast at all - just a sea of smooth blackness.

 

 

(Work in progress - ahem)

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[The Johnster]

The Southern Railway, following the lead of the LSWR, used Dartmoor granite ballast from Meldon Quarry, but the cash strapped South Eastern and L,C,& D used chalk, and had a reputation for rough riding as a result.     This was a feature of the Sevenoaks derailment in 1927, considered to have been caused by poor riding of the ‘River’ class 2-6-4T which had apparently run itself off the road due to water surging in the tanks. 
 

Test run on the GNR main line with Maunsell and Gresley on the footplate, a sister loco’s ride was found to be ‘firm’ but quite safe and steady at over 80mph.  The GN and LNER used limestone ballast.