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South Wales Valleys in the 50s


The Johnster
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gwr.org's list attributes a 31xx to PDK models, but I can't find any reference to it on their website; perhaps it is a proposed model.  It would be too expensive for me anyway by the time wheels, gears, and motor are taken into account.  I'll stick with my kitbash idea.

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On 10/10/2020 at 20:36, Northmoor said:

I'm sure there was a model of a 3100 shown on the gwr.org site (and the build explained), but I can't find it now.  Worth a trawl of the site although I'm sure you have done anyway.

I remember this but I'm not sure it was on gwr.org  - it may even have been on here. I recall that it was about backdating a 51XX/5101 large prairie to the original Churchward condition when they were still numbered in the 31XX series though, not a conversion to a large boiler 3150 or the 1938 Collett 31XX.

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Confusion is understandable!

 

I reckon Collett got bored and thought it would be fun to mess about with the large prairies so that nobody knew what they were on about, or if they did, they had to explain which loco they were talking about at the time.  'I know', he said to himself 'I'll make a whole new class by changing the numbers to a different series and making some minor changes to the appearance (Churchward 31xx to 5101), starting off with rebuilds and continuing with the new number serious out of sequence, then I'll design an identical looking loco with a completely different number series by with higher pressure (61xx), then, I'll make another one that looks very nearly the same but has wheels slightly smaller, so that a new one of the latest type looks very close to one of the older ones, by the way it's also higher pressure (81xx).  Then, just to fox those who say all of them are the same thing, I'll design a really different one (1938 31xx), but I'll use the same number series as we started out with since I've just finished rebuilding the last of the originals.  I won't mess around with the original 3150s, or build any more of them despite that they are perfectly ok, but with luck people will confuse my 31xx with both the original 31xx and the 3150.  Mwa ha ha ha ha...' (changes into bat and flies out of the window to show how proper eeeeeeevil he is).

 

Cwmdimbath news; I've been catching up with various jobs, finding more couplings to replace with the surplus of Bachmann straight short NEM t/ls that I now have after fitting the mineral rakes with 3D printed couplings, building and painting the GWR monogram seats i bought, one of them anyway, and finding out a bit more about Boundary Posts.  This is the aftermath of last weeks retail therapy, but the main thing is that I've finally got to grips with the 2nd of my two K's A31 trailers, giving it a floor, interior, new glazing, general tidy up, and new identity.  It's previous owner, probably the guy who bought and built it all those years ago before it ended up on a show stall at Penarth, last year, built it well enough, square and true, and painted it in 1945-7 livery, but for some odd reason numbered it as '100' at the bottom right hand end of the sides.  I have finished it off as W 209 in 1948 WR 'transition' livery, as photographed at Gordon Road Sidings, Newport, in John Lewis' Auto Trailer book.

 

If anyone is interested enough in the whys and hows of this, then you need to get a life, but I have recorded the proceedings in Skills and Knowledge Kits and Scratches anyway, with photos.

 

Apropos photos...

 

IMG_0674.jpg.f5d1fea29045f7f07d87c522b68afee6.jpg

 

... here is the beastie.  Note the large lettering for the coach number (courtesy Dunsignalling of this Parish)  So, there are currently 2 auto sets working at Cwmdimbath, this one and a plain crimson liveried A31/30 combo with the first A31 which you may recall I worked up as W 207 W with plated in toplights.  The reason for this is that the A31s are too heavy as a matching set for the Bachmann 4575s to handle,  They can manage, just, on the straights but the no.4 setrack curvature at the fy throat defeats them.  They can manage one A31 and a plastic A30!  This means that an operating variation can be to shunt a recently arrived auto to the loop while another auto runs in, changes the lamps around, and runs out again, the sort of thing that might be required to get things back in order if one is running late and the paths have to be restored.

 

I've mentioned before that a feature of actual working at Abergwynfi seems to have been the use of auto trailers with 'normal' locos, not auto fitted ones, which thus have to run around at the terminus for the return working.  This is common enough to be a noticeable feature of photos of Abergwynfi, a particularly photogenic station with a lot more google image presence than the other Tondu branches.  I assume that this was the result of a shortage of auto-fitted locos at the shed, which had to provide locos for 5 branches and seems to have never had more than 5 auto locos on the roster at the same time.  This leaves no spare capacity to cover boiler washouts, works visits, or any other reason a loco, or just it's auto gear, was out of service.   Manning may have been an issue as well; the fireman for an auto working is left alone on the footplate for half of the duty and needs to be an experienced man; auto link work was the preserve of passed firemen, so if insufficient experienced firemen were available, the working may have worked as hauled stock,

 

Now, it may be that Abergwynfi was the default working for non auto fitted replacement locos with auto trailers for some reason, but I am working to the assumption that this was a problem that affected all of the Tondu branches and thus Cwmdimbath as well.  This gives me the option of using my auto sets as conventional hauled trains, and it is my intention to provide a 3rd set eventually but not provide any more auto locos than the 2 4575s I already have.  Biodiversity is the intention, and I am looking at Rue d'Etropal of this parish's 3D bodyshells, so this will have to go on the back burner pending funds, but there's room for more A28/30s, especially in 1945-7 'double lines' livery or 1942-5 Austerity brown; mind, this goes for my coaching stock in general.

 

There are always minor tasks that come up unplanned, but for now I'm up to date with all the projects, and am taking a sabbatical from buying new stuff or starting new projects until the Next Big Thing, which is of course the infamous 94xx.  I'll be skint for a while after that, and my hiatus may well last into the new year.  My pigeon van will have to wait!

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You're quite right. There are lots of photos of panniers on the Penygraig autos.  No doubt only having 4871 on the strength would mean substituting  whenever said loco was stopped. Anything above the load of the 48xx would have a pannier on the job. 

 

Approximately where does the Dimbath valley becomes single line? 

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It is a part of the network of single lines radiating from Tondu.  Dimbath Jc. is between Blackmill, where the Nant-y-Moel branch diverges, and Glynogwr.  The 'main' branch is to Ogmore Vale and Hendreforgan, this being a means of accessing the Penygraig branch at Thomastown, between Coed Ely and Tonyrefail.   Dimbath Jc is a simple divergence of single tracks, no passing loops or anything, but there is a sawmill, foundry, and refrigerated food warehouse just on the Cwmdimbath branch, with a trailing connection to a set of shared sidings in the up direction, so traffic for these places has to come up to the terminus with the pickup and be run around.  Access is via a ground frame released by the electric token system.

 

If you check the OS map of the area, follow the A 4093 northeast out of Blackmill, and you will see Dimbath Lane branching off to the north; it forms a loop serving a couple of farms, crosses Nant Dimbath, and returns to join the A 4093 just west of Glynogwr.  The OS shows a very evenly curved farm track between it and the main road that could almost be part of the trackbed of my branch, but the railway actually ran on the southern bank of the Ogwr here and there would have had to have been a bridge crossing the valley which would have meant that my branch would have been on a slightly different alignment.

 

This affects my Working Timetable, as traffic leaving the branch is liable to be held awaiting paths to Blackmill at the Junction Box, Blackmill being the next passing loop.  There might have needed to have been extra loops at Bryncethin and Blackmill to cope with the extra Cwmdimbath traffic, and a good case for doubling the line between those places.  As it was, this area must have seen one of the most intensely worked single track networks anywhere in the world in it's heyday, and Tondu was flat out 24/7.

 

There were two 48xx at Llantrisant, '21 and '71, working the Cowbridge and Penygraig branches respectively, so there was no wobble room and panniers must have done the work when one of them wasn't available.  Newport Area kept a streamlined diesel railcar at Canton as a general auto spare (I can actually remember it on the Marshfield Flyer), no.18, which I have seen photographed on Cowbridge duty both at Cowbridge and leaving Llantrisant.  I believe Metros were used on the Penygraig and Cowbridge branches until around nationalisation, and the 0-4-2Ts were already renumbered in the 14xx series when they replaced the Metros at Llantrisant.  517s were common on auto work in South Wales as well.  As far as I am aware, 64xx were not used at Llantrisant, ever, and only came to Tondu in 1959, after which they were the usual motive power for the Porthcawl autos from Tondu or Bridgend; slightly late for my time frame.

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Ahh, the 64xx; the basis for my 'gripe'. I have photos here of  (Hang on, has a look )  6425 at Cowbridge on the auto in the late 40's - early 50's, so  I assume  they were allocated at one point.  My ever-present gripe is the topfeed issue.  I shouldn't bang on about it, but there we are. 

 

 

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Preaching to the choir when it comes to top feeds, Ian.  It’s much easier to retrofit them and the associated plumbing than it is to remove and make the scars good.   
 

Interesting to hear of 6425 at Cowbridge, which was, from photos in Lewis Auto Trailers, a bit of a hotspot for interesting trailers; there is a 1947 shot of a Metro with a clerestory saloon trailer in austerity brown; I’m in ‘Spoons for breakfast now just so can’t look it up, and another of 1421 with an A9 matchboarded in crimson/cream with plated toplights.  Quite a lot of matchboards were at Llantrisant in the period, and there is a shot of the flat ended no.1 in Llantrisant yard. 
 

BR Database has 2 64xx, ‘09 and ‘39, at Llantrisant, ‘09 for a few months in ‘50 and 39 for two years ‘52-4.  I suspect 6425 was deputising.  I find it interesting that 64xx didn’t come to Tondu until ‘59, given the preponderance of post 1953 auto work at the shed, but I guess the gradients were a bit much for them.  I’ve seen no pictures of them on any of Tondu’s Valleys branches, which were closing to passengers by then; I associate Tondu 64xx with Porthcawl, where the problem was curves more than gradients. 

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50 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I find it interesting that 64xx didn’t come to Tondu until ‘59, given the preponderance of post 1953 auto work at the shed, but I guess the gradients were a bit much for them.  I’ve seen no pictures of them on any of Tondu’s Valleys branches, which were closing to passengers by then; I associate Tondu 64xx with Porthcawl, where the problem was curves more than gradients. 

 

Wasn't '59 the year the DMUs started work in the Cardiff Valleys? The 64xx that ran the autotrains before then would have become spare, so they would have had one or two to send to Tondu.

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A year earlier, Budgie, but it’s a good point.  Some auto workings remained until about 1961, where traffic did not justify a 3-car dmu.  

 

Are you thinking of JB, aka the St Fagans Pullman?  A dmu was found for this diagram from September 1960 until it ceased two years later.  I don't think the volume of traffic had anything to do with it.

 

Chris

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Not especially, Chris.  Tondu’s Porthcawl workings, and Pontypool-Monmouth jobs (stretching the ‘Valleys’ definition a bit but still South Walian) retained auto working to the end, though JB, the Barry auto workings, and the Bute Rd-Corytons went to the all conquering 116s.  Not sure when the PC&N services finished, but these too were steam auto to the end, as were the Merthyr-Aberdare and Merthyr-Pontsticill.  All these closed before Beeching, never mind the end of steam, and those auto locos not withdrawn went to Plymouth Area and Gloucester.   Some came ‘home’ to South Wales courtesy of Dai Woodham, and survive in presevation. 

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The PC&N service finished in 1956.  Let us not forget Aberdare LL - Abercynon and Porth - Maerdy, both of which were dieselised in 1958.  Caerphilly - Senghenydd was covered by the Coryton autos which had become dmu worked by June 1958.  Bute Road - Maindy suffered badly in the economy cuts of June 1958, leaving it with one trip until closure at the end of the 1958 summer timetable.  The auto was replaced by a six car dmu on a fill-in turn.

 

I think you meant Merthyr - Hirwaun.

 

Chris

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Two of Tondu's 56xx meet at Cwmdimbath.  It's gone 8am on a bright but overcast morning, and 6642 has just arrived with the first empties of the day, to encounter shed and class mate 6621 on the Tremains workmans, originally for the ROF but now for the burgeoning trading estate on the site as well.  Out of shot, Forest no.1, the NCB's W4 Peckett, has marshalled the loaded from the night shift and is waiting for the empties on her headshunt, her crew having time for a cuppa in their small cabin.  6621's have had theirs and are ready for the off at 08.15 for the 35 minute all stops to Tremains run.  The empties' guard is strolling up the train to uncouple the loco as there is a passed cleaner on the shovel this morning, but there's no rush, 6642 isn't going anywhere while the Tremains remains...

 

6642 will stay with this 2 coach set of Colletts all day, on a complex diagram that sees it running a Bridgend-Porthcawl-Bridgend return pattern before working the lunchtime Tremains workman's to Cwmidimbath and back, then Bridgend-Abergwynfi round trip, then the evening Tremains workmans, ecs Tondu sidings, loco to shed for disposal; the crew have relief as the lunchtime workman's calls at Tondu.  

 

6621, manfully assisted by Forest No.1, will shuttle empties and loadeds between Tondu yard and Cwmdimbath on target U25 for the rest of the day, again with the crew being relieved at lunchtime.  There are 3 trips and an 'as required' which runs most evenings these days.  It's the start of a busy day for everyone, and Cwmdimbath's morning shift signalman will be flat out for some time dealing with U25, the ebb and flow of the morning's autos, the pickup, and then U25 again, then it'll be time for the parcels, then the lunchtime rush.

IMG_0680.jpg

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On 11/10/2020 at 01:59, The Johnster said:

gwr.org's list attributes a 31xx to PDK models, but I can't find any reference to it on their website; perhaps it is a proposed model.  It would be too expensive for me anyway by the time wheels, gears, and motor are taken into account.  I'll stick with my kitbash idea.

 

A quick look at PDK shows the 31xx model as TBA. 

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94xx first, then KNP's sold me on one of those little Cambrian cranes which looks like a cracking little New Year project, and I want one of those Chivers whateverthy'recallednow pigeon vans, then we have to think about the A43, and i've still got some old wagons to refurbish with couplings and buffers, then after that there's the Southeastern chassis for 1740, and bogies and bits for an old Triang Utility Van that's been knocking around since God was in short trollies, by which time the Dap 5101 will be out and I'll be coming to a decision on that vs the Hornby.  Then perhaps one of Rue d'Etropal's autotrailer bodyshells (I've had enough K's A31s for one life).  And I might even get around to finishing the Taff A and Rhymney R one day; they can be interlopers from Barry or Dyffryn Yard, even Llantrisant at a push.

 

And lamps, always more lamps, but I'm getting a little better at not sacrificing them to the carpet monster.

 

I've actually managed some good progress this year so far; the repurposing of the old Remploy siding as a colliery exchange, and the stub as a mileage unloading point, lit signals and station/yard lamps, a new spur for the colliery loco, 2 colliery locos, and the permacouplings for the mineral rakes, plus a relaying of the fy to access the colliery exchange and main line from 3 roads of it, and a bit of electrickeral jiggerypokery to isolate locos.  You, of course, are making good progress on your shed. and have all this sort of thing to look forward to...  Keep it up and before you know where you are, where are you?

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I'm waaaay behind you, young Johnster. Mrs Smith is counting the days when I start moving the model railway stuff in.  I don't really watch the telly; it's just a distraction. There are several 'meaningful' projects I want to undertake. Plus of course, the oddball projects which tickle my fancy.  The weather has shut down this weekend, otherwise I'd be back at it.  I'll be checking the weeks weather later. 

 

Then there's the garage roof to sort out, and a possible extension on the kitchen.  Oh, new bathroom,  office-- study under the stairs, re-decoration, etc. Should be finished by Thursday.....

 

In railway parlance, 'Total occupation in force, without SLW'. 

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Not much happening at Cwmdimbath this week, though we've had some very satisfactory operating session.  Forest No.1 is now capable of hauling 11 loaded coal wagons and is improving as she 'beds in'.  The main story is that I am finishing a project that started in the 80s, working up an ancient (I mean really ancient, almost as ancient as me) Triang Southern Rly Utility Van with opening doors, using the Roxey kit.  This is well troddon ground and I'm not going to open a thread in Modifying and Detailing.  It's a satsifying job, made easy and rewarding but quite a bit of work by the Roxey kit, which has excellent castings.  Started Thursday evening and I've got as far as finishing the body details and painting it; next task is glazing and the glazing bars, then the roof and bogies.  I have given it crimson livery, and have not yet decided on a number; I'll probably use whatever number Triang used for their crimson version, as they probably based it on a prototype with this livery. 

 

It is the first time since I bought the van more than 3 decades ago that I've looked at it closely; I picked it up cheap at a show, got it home, removed and chucked the bogies and underframe and picked it up again on Thursday.  It's actually not the worst RTR model I've ever seen, the main problem being the raised joins between the boards, wihich I've decided to live with, and for it's time is not half bad.   I'm not going the full works, (handrails, doorknobs, compensated bogies) and it is intened to be a 'layout' coach, not too heavily weathered as it would  have been quite recently repainted in my period.

 

As usual, photo when I've finished but there's a bit to do yet and it needs to be not rushed.  The roof modifications are I suspect going to take quite a while, as one must sand down the sides to the correct profile; this is something I can do while sitting on the sofa watching tv, though.  It needs to be taken care over; the roof profile is one of the things most obviously wrong with this Triang model and on the real vehicle is very characteristic, and you only get one chance to get it right. 

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The roof profiling wasn't as onerous and long winded as I thought it would be (unlike some of my screeds here), but I've temporarily hit the buffers with the central built up roof section, and have made a mess with the glue with an attempt that failed rather miserably because the plastic sheet I was using wrinkled up and shrank, and had to be removed.  I'm leaving this for now, and will later today make a start on the bogies.  Glazing and window bar grills done ok.

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Made some progress today; bogies are built and painted, and 'tried' on the van.  There is a bit of a lean to one side, despite my taking care to ensure that both bogie pivots are on the centre line of the vehicle, but I can sort this out with counter-ballasting or by a method i used when I replaced the bogies on a Lima Siphon G. a small piece of kitchen sponge hidden between the central crosspiece of the bogie frame and the underside of the floor, glued to the bogie crosspiece.  I've come across some anolalies between photos and the drawing that came with the detailing kit.  The drawing shows handrails on the lh side of each end alongside the steps, in two section, a vertical one from just above the electrical connection terminals to just above the second step, and another curved one from just above that to terminate on the centre of the end of the roof.  Triang have attempted to represent this with a single moulded on handrail which makes an angle just above the second step and runs straight to the top of the end from there

 

I cannot see these handrails in any of the pictures of preserved bogie luggage vans, but have seen one photo of a van in service which shows them, so, assuming that Triang, and Roxey's drawing are correct in including them and the preservationists are wrong, or that they were removed at the same time as the end steps on mk1s were as a safety measure at the time of the WCML's original Manchester/Liverpool 25kv overhead scheme and nobody in preservation has replaced them, I have drilled holes for them and have installed the lower vertical section; the curved upper section will have to wait until the roof is fitted, and will therefore be the final part of the project.  While I had the drill out, I drilled holes each end for the lamp irons.

 

Our Welsh 'firebreak' lockdown ended at midnight, and I'll be able to go to the shops for some essential supplies, including some fine sandpaper to restore the roof before my next attempt, with plastic backed insulation tape.  I will order some transfers for it from JohnCCT of this very parish on Wednesday, pension day!  Job could be finished completely by next week at this rate; all the building and modelling should be done by Wednesday.

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4145 drifts in with the afternoon pick up, an unusual job for this loco but with all the recent talk about Hornby and possible Dapol 5101, I thought a bit of old school prairie action was justified.  4145 was new to Tondu in 1946 and is a little out of place alongside a crimson auto trailer as she was transferred away at the end of March 1948. 
 

I’m not entirely sure what her purpose at Tondu was, as the shed survived without a 5101 from then until the summer of 1958, when 4144 (happily still with us and and old Severn Tunnel friend from my spotting days) turned up.  They had Collett 1938 3100 until 1959 IIRC for the daily Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter, but this brute was about as different as possible as large prairies go!  Following 4144, there was a 5101 on the books most of the time until the shed closed in ‘64.

 

The Hornby body tooling cannot hold a candle to the current model, and all Hornby ever did to the appearance of the chassis was improve the pony and radial wheels with open backed ones, but a new motor was included at some time, with the same old Airfix chassis block.  This loco is a hybrid Hornby body on an Airfix chassis, and does’t look too bad from this angle, but I need to do a bit of work on the rather bare buffer beams. 

A5CD1C47-3682-4CDE-9513-D93DB58DDC9E.jpeg

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News of the further delay to the 94xx, along with awareness of congestion and delays to inbound containers at the UK ports, has led me to raid the 94xx fund for a Hornby 5101, actually a 61xx, in black unicycling livery for £110 from Bure Valley Models.  This loco will be renumberd as 4144.  4145 will remain in service as a spare and may even be further worked up over time, but the main 5101 work will be done by the new Hornby loco. 

 

Other news, is that I've built and painted a Five 47 (Chivers) LNER 'pigeon' van, lovely little kit, and am waiting on a delivery from Comet which will include bearings to put the wheels on and put it into traffic; the new GLV van needs bearings as well. The pigeon is in 1956 unlined maroon livery, and I have yet to finish the numbering and lettering, so no photo just yet.  I've provided it with full interior details (guard's seat, lockers, brake standard, vacuum setter, gauge and 'insured parcels' locker, along with the draught screens each side of the guard's seat; I've yet to do the pigeon racks, which will be modelled in the folded up position on one side but 'down' on the other so that the van can be used in pigeon traffic as well as as a generatl purpose parcels BY.  Interior is probably overkill but it is surprising how much can be seen through the toplights when you peer in there.  In view of the 94xx fund raid, the Cambrian crane can be deferred for a while.  The pigeon was a bit profligrate, never mind a crane!

 

With the Comet order will be bow ends and end fittings for my aluminium body E121, and a 57' underframe etch, so this coach will probably be the next project.  Then there's an aluminium C61/3 to follow it, then I can think about other long term projects,  4144 has upset my apple cart a bit, but it will all get done, probably in the next year or so with any luck and a following wind...

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Interior shot of the Chivers Five 47 Gresley D120 BY van.  There is, to the right and working down from the far end, pigeon basket racks, some folded up, a door space, draught screen with vacuum gauge, the heater (which I assume is simply a pipe feeding a sort of radiator worked by steam heating; it is the black thing sticking up from the floor), vacuum setter (red thing) made out of a boundary post with an offcut from a staple for the handle, then the guard's seat; I have not modelled the interior of the ducket.  Next to that is a sit-on locker, and another, smaller, draught screen, brake standard, then the second door space, with more racks to the near end. 

 

On the other, non-ducket, side and again workinf down from the far end, racks, door space, a locker described as an 'insured parcel locker'; I've made it cabinet size and painted green.  It was probably metal.  Next to that is a single set of racks, the door space, and more twin racks.  Not sure if this is enough; it is surprising how much can be seen through the toplights and I have modelled the guard's droplight on the non-ducket side with an open window so it is easy to see the guard's seating area.  The brake standard was what was in the oddznendz box, and really needs to be a wheel not a handle, and the inner surfaces of the doors and the ducket need to be represented, possibly by painted/drawn overlays.  The racks are cut from coffee stirrers (thank you Wetherspoons), but the real ones are a lattice pattern and might make a good 3D print project. 

 

This, and the possibility of lighting it, means that the roof will be tacked on for now; I may want to get insie again!  Delivery from Wizard today included some brass top hat bearings so the wheels are now in and running tests done.  The brakes worked as brakes and had to be eased off a touch, and tomorrow's job is to take the wheelsets  (Hornby carriage wheels) out and make rebates in the floor to clear the flanges, which are rubbing gently.  The wheels turn but not freely; I'm sure they will when this job is done! 

 

I've given up on the numbering and lettering and will order the proper sheet from that nice Mr Isherwood for it. I'm pleased overall with the finish, which looks like a well used but not yet completely filthy van, appropriate for a layout where time ends at the end of 1958, so an unlined maroon van can not be more than two years out of the paint shops...  I like this van; the only reason I bought it as it's hardly a 'must have'.  It's got a lot of character and looks much older than the type's 1928-30 build period (panelling seems a very outdated feature for this period, although the LMS was still painting faux panels on it's stock.

 

 

 

 

 

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You've gone to a lot of trouble on the inside!  In the past I've sometimes used half a small press stud as a brake van handbrake wheel; they have holes in them rather than spokes but you can't really see that through the small windows.

 

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