South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[MrWolf]

I found that with a number of kits, it's not just that I like to hack them about to suit my visions, a lot of the time the kit is decades old and needs a fair bit of work. We're lucky to still have them though, due to the rise of expensive ready to plonk buildings (good as they are with a repaint and weathering.) I'm sure that you will turn it into something that looks right on the layout.

 

Post up some pictures so that we don't have to put on a valleys accent and ask "Where are you to?"

That one I know makes sense in Welsh!

[Gopher]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Post up some pictures so that we don't have to put on a valleys accent and ask "Where are you to?"

Or "what's occurring" if you translate into Kairdiff/Barry dialect

[MrWolf]

You can learn an awful lot of Valleys cultural heritage by watching Taff Wars on YouTube...

Except that I worked with lads from Aberdare and they swear even more than those from Splott.

It is possible, just.

[Gopher]

56 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

You can learn an awful lot of Valleys cultural heritage by watching Taff Wars on YouTube...

Except that I worked with lads from Aberdare and they swear even more than those from Splott.

It is possible, just.

Yes I've worked with some lads from Splott back in the day. Some had very thick Kairdiff accents (similar to Grangetown, or God's ground as one of the locals used to refer to it).  Have difficulty working out if they were swearing or not, sometimes the hand gestures gave you a hint.        

[The Johnster]

Ok, Sunday night sitrep.  At least the photos are the right way up this time!

 

 

 

Shot the first; view from the lower slopes of Mynydd y Gwair looking southestwards.  The general positioning of the kit is established, and a blue towel is standing in for Mynydd Maendy, between Cwmdimbath and Gilfach Goch.  The screens building is a cardboard creation of my own, originally a factory on the ‘stub’ siding which is a kickback off the station run around loop.  A facade for thr winding house can be seen on the wall to the left of the head frame.  Everything is already starting to look properly unkempt and semi-derelict.  The smaller side-loading platform that Forest no.1 has positioned a steel 16tonner alongside is high enough for the Austerity to pass beneath. 
 

I’ve given the kit a healthy seeIng to with a wide brush and the weathering mix which folloed a light spray of matt black, and am quite pleased with the results. Plenty of detailing work left of course, and the roof, as I say, looks a bit Disney, will be covered with ordinary corrugated sheets because I can’t find the most suitable sort, which of course would be Glyncorrwgated… I’ll get my coat…

 

 

Shot from much lower down, and I’m pleased with the way the pit buildings lead your eye up to the pithead frame.  Ferndale looked a little bit like this, my Grandad’s pit.  Roof looks ok from this angle!  Must sort out the dogleg in the foreground!

 

 

Finally, looking northeastwards from a rock outcrop above the scenic break, which isn’t very scenic yet.  Proposed site for the boiler house is to the left of the screens building, with lagged steam pipes leading up to the winding house.  I like the dogleg in the overhead conveyor section; it gives a more natural feel to the scene, a colliery forced to avoid straight lines and right angles in it’s layout by the constraints of the site’s topography; this was normal in South Wales. 
 

I’ll post more pix when the roof is done and there’s a bit of progress with the ballasting, scenery, and ground cover. 

 

 

[MrWolf]

I've taken to using this type of corrugated sheet for roofing. It's intended as corrugated glazing to match corrugated iron. It's very thin and has both the overlaps and fixing nails moulded in. I've never had much success with cutting and overlapping even vacuum formed sheet, it's just too thick. Once painted it looks very good.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corrugated-Glazing-Iron-Type-OO-HO-Building-kit-WILLS-SSMP223-/272520522589?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[The Johnster]

That’s the stuff; I used it on the roof of the low relief lasercut stores building on the colliery loading platform up at the original exchange siding.  I’ll need several more packs for this job, though, and might go for something else if I can find decent quality for less.  The kit ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarves’ roof is, I think, supposed to represent beaten lead sheets, and I’ve never heard of such a thing in the UK.  The structure does not give the impression of being capable of supporting such a roof, in fact parts of it look as if they are only there because they haven’t got the strength to collapse.  

 

[ianathompson]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

beaten lead sheets, and I’ve never heard of such a thing in the UK.

 

I would hazard a guess that this is similar to the material roofing many of our parish churches.

Or not, in the case of the local parish church, after the lead thieves stripped it again.

Apparently the consistory court have some aesthetic objection to plastic panelling that looks like lead.

 

Still they are welcome to try at the place where I sing.

Hope that that is not tempting fate.

At least they would fall forty or fifty feet if they put a foot wrong!

 

Ian T

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, ianathompson said:

 

I would hazard a guess that this is similar to the material roofing many of our parish churches.

Or not, in the case of the local parish church, after the lead thieves stripped it again.

Apparently the consistory court have some aesthetic objection to plastic panelling that looks like lead.

 

The Diocesan Advisory Committee on the Care of Churches will usually look favourably on terne coated steel as a replacement for stolen lead. Sometimes the insurer will insist on it, and it's acceptable to Historic England and the Amenity Societies.

[MrWolf]

It might solve two problems by replacing the lead with copper sheet and wiring it up to the nearest lamp post.

Thereby invoking instantaneous divine retribution?

[Compound2632]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Ok, Sunday night sitrep.  At least the photos are the right way up this time!

 

How blue was my valley?

[MrWolf]

21 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

How blue was my valley?

 

Today it's probably grey or invisible.

[The Johnster]

Bluegrass; the coal mining areas of Kentucky and Virginia, duelling banjos country, look remarkably simiar to some of the terrain in South Wales.  Squeal like a lil' piggy, boy, dada dang dang dang dang dang daaa, yeeee haa!

 

Church roof lead sheet is usually moulded into interlocking plates in a proper lead foundry in order to seal the roof against the elephants, but the roof on my colliery kit buildings looks, so far as I can tell, like sheets of lead crudely beaten out with big 'ammers to make them bigger, the result being very roughly shaped squares of thin lead.  There are representations of patches where it's been beaten too thin and has worn through.  I cannot quite make out how the joins were sealed, probably from beneath with flashing strips which probably trapped rain water and played havoc with the fixings.  This seems to have been a common 'vernacular' method in central Europe, requiring little skill (miners and local blacksmiths already knew how to use hammers and lead is easily melted and poured into trays to form the basic slabs) and an easily obtainable material, but I've never heard of or seen it here.  The Squeeze, who hails from Silesia in southern Poland, says she's seen this sort of roofing on old buildings there, but never here, not that she was ever making a point of looking for them...

 

The roof is causing me some thought.  Best answer is the Wills corrugated sheets, but this wil be an expensive endeavour costing more than the kit and postage, and the Slater's Plasticard alternative is not significantly cheaper.  I am considering having a go at making my own using aly cooking foil and cheapo 'precision' screwdrivers, which have ribbed metal handles over which the corrugations could be formed.  Some experimentation is needed to see if this is a  practicable, and of course it will need to be painted, probably after being 'primed' with matt acrylic to accept the paint.

 

There are printed paper sheets of rusted corrugated available, and these are of course much cheaper.  I have used printed sheets for brick and stone walls, and slate roofing; it's effectiveness depends on the lighting of the finished model IMHO.  If the situation is that you view the model 'against' the light, where the relief on the surface is highlighted and clearly visible, this approach is less effective, but I may be able to 'get away' with it for Dimbath Deep Navigation no.2 Pit.  It is probably a good idea to go down this road initially to hide the Snow White roof, as it is bothering me (the 'rustic' planking that fails to keep the weather out of the overhead galleries isn't, don't ask, it's an abitrary decision) and has to be overlaid.  The paper sheets will do the job cheaply and there is no reason that I cannot overlay them with home made or Wills etc. sheets as an improvement later.

 

If anyone can come up with an example of a beaten sheet lead roof of this sort in the UK, I'll leave it as it is!  The colour rendition is the best on the kit, and it needs no more than a wash over with the weathering mix to look the part, perhaps picking out the patches as a little cleaner.  I doubt that algae or moss would grow on a lead roof, but a little rust staining from the fixings might be acceptable.

 

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

 

Today it's probably grey or invisible.

 

Or both.  Welsh weather forecasting; if you can't see the top of the mountain, it's raining, and if you can, it's about to.  I have a memory of exploring Cwmmer Afan station in a thunderstorm in 1969; it was like being in a big wet grey room with a cloud ceiling, an atmospheric exerience that has 'informed' much of my approach to Cwmdimbath.  Us Celts likes a bit of gloom, we does, life it to be endured, not enjoyed, bright sunny days are only there to lull you into a false sense of security, you are a sinner and must suffer, misery is good.  My sodden carcass was revived in front of the fire in the 'Refresh'. still happily with us.

[MrWolf]

Welsh weather forecasting is similar to how we motorcyclists forecast the arrival of summer. 

If you see shiny new Harley Davidsons on the roads, it hasn't rained for the last two weeks and isn't going to rain for the next two weeks...

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, MrWolf said:

might solve two problems by replacing the lead with copper sheet and wiring it up to the nearest lamp post.

Thereby invoking instantaneous divine retribution?

 

Intersting to watch the pigeons landing on the roof, or better still (because they're bigger an' I 'ates 'em) the gulls.  SKWAAAAAARKK fizzle...

[Sandhole]

4 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Welsh weather forecasting is similar to how we motorcyclists forecast the arrival of summer. 

If you see shiny new Harley Davidsons on the roads, it hasn't rained for the last two weeks and isn't going to rain for the next two weeks...

OH that's so true. Speaking as a Guzzi/Royal Enfield rider. Both ridden all year!
Regards,
Chris.

[MrWolf]

I speak as a BSA owner, that also rides all year. Kudos on the Guzzi, I used to own a T3 that was cafe racered, 20 years before it was fashionable, I might add.

As for the Enfield, I've owned the strange Turbo Twin and a J2 that my mate called dibs on before I even got it running. He still has it, it's not like he would find another in a hurry. Having ridden it, I rather wish that I could have afforded to keep it!

[Sandhole]

19 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I speak as a BSA owner, that also rides all year. Kudos on the Guzzi, I used to own a T3 that was cafe racered, 20 years before it was fashionable, I might add.

As for the Enfield, I've owned the strange Turbo Twin and a J2 that my mate called dibs on before I even got it running. He still has it, it's not like he would find another in a hurry. Having ridden it, I rather wish that I could have afforded to keep it!

My Guzzi is an 03 Cali. Fuel injected, so the throttle is lighter that the Del'Orto one.
The Enfield is an Indian Enfield. Fuel injected again. She's my second Bullitt. The first was another Indian build with a carb. The twin leading shoe front brake on that bike was better than the disc on my current machine.
I love 'em, they suit me down to the ground.
There she is.
Regards,
Chris.

[The Johnster]

Further minor progress in the colliery yard, in that the pile of coal that Faller provide to help support the end of the covered conveyor gallery of the kit, which looks more like a poor plastic rendition of the Creature From The Black Lagoon than a pile of coal, even German coal, has been coated in pva and sprinkled with coal, real coal, mined at Big Pit in Blaenafon by Tomparryharry of this very parish as ever is.  I've also made some cardboard wagonload supports and pva-ed some of this coal to them to make removable loads to facilitate the colliery working.  The idea is that the loads will be removed when the BR loco arrives with a loaded train in the coal road in the fy, and put back into the wagons after they have been placed in batches of four under the loader.  I have decided that my 21tonners are causing running problems and have, for now, withdrawn them from service pending acquistion of more to make a full train, which will also have removable loads.  A fun and messy evening...

 

Unloading the wagons by hand on the back road of the fy will mean a rethink of my stock storage system, a shelf unit above the fy.  Mounting it higher is the simplest solution, and preserves the idea that the stock should be kept near the fy where it is to hand when needed.  But there is a limit to how much higher I can have it without losing easy access to the top shelves (eat up all your greens, children, like mummy says, or you won't grow big and tall and be able to reach your stock on the top shelf when you grow up, look what happened to me.  It's taken 60 odd years for it to be a problem, mind, so I haven't done badly).  There is now more space on the fy side of the scenic break on the boards for storage, though, which means that I don't need a shelf for locos. so I may be able to get away with dispensing with the lowest shelf so that I have more working headroom.

 

I've ordered a Will's weighbridge kit to convert to rail use (I really want the Coopercraft one, but there you go) and am giving some thought as to how to site it  I think I am right in saying that, remembering watching weighbridge operations at Nantgarw in the late 60s, the train is drawn over the bridge plate, which is locked out of use, until the last wagon is clear of the plate.  The locking mechanism is released and the loco propels wagons on to it individually, stopping so that each one can be weighed and drawing forward a wagon at a time.  When the last wagon is clear, the bridge is locked out of use and becomes an ordinary bit of track, but the loco is not allowed on the plate when it is in operating mode.  A 'reach wagon' is needed to accomplish this  If this is wrong, I'd like to be told so that I can operate my colliery correctly!

 

Ready to start the scenery, building the ground up with sheets of cardboard before applying plaster as the final surface, then painting brown, black in the colliery area.  Think I said I'd have it all finished by New Year's, luckily I don't think I specified which new year,,,

[Michael Hodgson]

On 29/11/2021 at 13:09, Welchester said:

 

The Diocesan Advisory Committee on the Care of Churches will usually look favourably on terne coated steel as a replacement for stolen lead. Sometimes the insurer will insist on it, and it's acceptable to Historic England and the Amenity Societies.

Historic England???   It's none of their business whether or not the Welsh churches have waterproof rooves. 

 

Tell the Diocesan Advisory Committee to go back inside and consult the Proper Authority about what to do about the roof.  If the roof is leaking on a typical Welsh wet Wednesday in November, they're sure to get a sign from on high.

[Welchester]

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Historic England???   It's none of their business whether or not the Welsh churches have waterproof rooves. 

 

Tell the Diocesan Advisory Committee to go back inside and consult the Proper Authority about what to do about the roof.  If the roof is leaking on a typical Welsh wet Wednesday in November, they're sure to get a sign from on high.

 

Sorry, I couldn't remember the Welsh equivalent. Is it Cadw?

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, Welchester said:

 

Sorry, I couldn't remember the Welsh equivalent. Is it Cadw?

I thought Cadw with was just the equivalent of English Heritage (and Historic Scotland), formerly Ministry of Public Buildings and Works (a long long time ago!), but it appears that it also has the role of listing buildings (as Historic England).

Something else learnt from this topic!

Paul.

[The Johnster]

Little bit more done this evening; I've started laying the ground, literally, pieces of thick cardboard (skip raid)  cut into shaped pieces to build up the ground between the tracks, and eventually to provide the base for the top surface, which will be plaster.  Couple of layers of cardboard built up into contour profiles will take care of the gentle topography of the valley floor, while more drastic arrangments will need to be provided for the steep mountainsides.

 

I've moved the stock storage shelves as discussed yesterday, and will probably have an operating session tomoz before tackling the next contour layer of cardboard. I've also put the new scenic break, more of an attention diverter, in place, a curved piece of stiff cardboard that take's one's gaze sort of around a corner, which will be in the form of a mountain spur that hides the rest of the world further south down the valley towards Glynogwr, or in reality the new fy, from the operating chair position. 

 

Doing a bit more online shopping, must stop until next week when the pension comes in or I'll be leaving myself short, this time a factory chimney for the colliery from Scale Model Scenery.  The weighbridge is due on Saturday but if I'm lucky it'll be here in the morning; the colliery essentials are coming together, and a plan that didn't exist 3 weeks ago is taking on shape and form.  The creative juices are flowing (urgh!), but it's all right, I'll mop them up before I go to bed...

[The Johnster]

Just back from a trip to Wilko with some plaster and 'matching pot' emulsion paints; £1.25 a pot and very useful for base scenery colouring.  With a bit of luck we should be losing most of the bare wood/cardboard look soon, but ballasting for the main line has to wait for pension day on Wednesday.  I'm feeling a bit frustrated at being held back waiting for pay day all the time, but in fact I shouldn't be; progress with this is blistering fast by my usual standards, and we are not far off the point when it will start to look like a layout being developed rather than boards, track, and an intention to have a layout one day.  Enforced delays are not entirely a bad  thing as they give me more time to think things through in detail a bit before plunging onwards.

 

Onwards, yes, and upwards, with any luck and a followning wind...

[The Johnster]

It's all a bit crude and basic, but the shapes of the mountainsides and a contoured section between WR and NCB are beginning to appear, in the form of cardboard shapes pva-ed together.  I've stopped for dinner now, and will not do any more tonight while the pva goes off, but I am intending to have a crack later at making corrugated iron sheets out of aly foil with the handles of poundshop 'precision' screwdrivers as rollers,