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Glover's Irish Railways Workbench


Glover
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At the outset, I should say that I would describe myself as an "impressionist" modeller.

While the supply of items suitable for modelling Irish railways is increasing, a willingness to have a go/accept a reasonable likeness is still a core requirement.

With those caveats, I offer you my humble efforts.

 

In August 1966 (50 years ago!), a near legendary series of articles started in the Railway Modeller. They dealt with the conversion of the original Triang GWR clearestory coaches into Southern Railway (England) and its constituent companies. The series was written by Terry Gough.

The results looked similar to those built by the Irish company, the Great Southern& Western Railway.

I promised myself I would build at least one of these. Fifty years later I did: no rush!

 

As so often happens, I didn't quite follow Terry's procedures. For one, Terry built to a length of 54 feet. Those built by the GW&SR ( and in the early years of its successor, the Great Southern Railway) were 60 footers.

Essentially, you use the passenger sections of the GWR Brake 3rd's and glue them together.

I used Bachmann LMS bogies. The ends were scratch built, in the hope of achieving the wider look of Irish coaches although that is somewhat negated by the use of a Hornby Mk 1 roof. Roof's are a particularly difficult issue when building Irish coaches.

Anyway, I offer it to you as, I think, a reasonable impression of older Irish coaching stock.

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I really like that.  It's a beautiful model and it's always a bonus to see something Irish as it's an interesting prototype and a nice change.

 

I hope my Triang conversions come out so well as yours; I doubt it, but you've given me something to aim for!

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Very nice work! I shall have to look out for a couple of GWR brake third clerestory coaches for a smiliar project!

 

Re. the roofs and the wider bodies of irish stock- this is where 3d printing can be a real help - print a roof and perhaps the ends and you'd be away when combined with the Hornby sides. I've done just that with some GNRi and CIE stock, and it's worked really well.

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard.

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........"print a roof.....".

Thanks Richard, I was thinking of knitting one!

 

Seriously, I'm sure you are right but, in terms of ability, a little above my pay grade.

There is I am sure, a ( small) market for Irish coach roof's- something fairly generic and which can be cut to the appropriate length.

 

Cheers ( just in from the pub ),

 

Glover

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Modelling Irish railways requires a certain level of ingenuity or, if you prefer, a willingness to accept "near enough" as an outcome.

 

This project is based on the Great Northern Railway Ireland ( GNRI) W1 luggage brake vans.

The only hard information I have is a good side on view in Desmond Coakhams' book, Irish Railway Carriages, A Pictorial Introduction

( Midland Publishing 2004).

The GNRI built three of them in 1904/5 for the main Dublin-Belfast (or Belfast-Dublin if you prefer). The photo was taken in 1959 and describes the van as being "...out to grass...".

I have assumed number 247 survived until the summer of 1963 in service on the Bundoran branch, which I have also assumed somehow managed to survive the massive cull of the GNRI in 1957.

 

I have used elements from two kits plus the left over clear storey roof from the Triang GWR conversion detailed in the first post.

The sides are from the Chivers Finecast LNER Pigeon van much cut about; about five or six.

I also cut out some additional windows.

It carries a different livery on each side; lighter CIE green and darker UTA ( Ulster Transport Authority) on the other.

When the then Northern Ireland Government in 1957 withdrew from the cross border support arrangement for the GNRI, the rollong stock was split 50:50 between CIE and UTA. Therefore, I have backed the horse both ways!

The UTA side is, in my opinion better; I made it after the CIE side. I cut out the full array of windows and also removed the small row of windows on the kit and replaced them with a strip of Evergreen plastic, also adding a bit of extra height to the side.

However, the CIE side has a guards lookout; Coakham says one side had been removed by 1959.

The ends are reprofiled (posh word for hacked out) to match the Triang roof profile.

In the original photo, it looks like the roof had been recovered in a slightly slap dash fashion. I have reproduced this by applying sticky post labels.......you wouldn't get this class of modelling in the Model Railway Journal!

 

The chassis is from the Ratio GWR 4 wheel brake third (of which, more anon) because it is the correct 30 foot length and also, to my eyes, looks a bit more old fashioned than the LNER one.

 

The middle wheel is actually a dummy; a plastic wheel with the flange cut off.

 

If I were doing it again (and I won't!), I would cut out the full range of windows on the CIE side, remove the original top rather than try to fill in and mount the UTA logo higher on the body side.

 

Anyway, I reckon it's near enough for me.

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Many thanks Kirley; much appreciated.

I have a fair number of projects to show, of varying quality it has to be said.

As you might guess, the Ratio GWR brake 3rd sides weren't wasted.

 

One lesson I have learned is that the camera is cruel! Think I'll stand further away when taking photos....

 

Cheers,

Glover

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The camera is only cruel for those that wish to make negative comments. No matter how far away you stand your kit bashed model will remain the same. Better to reflect on the opening paragraphs of your thread,a willingness to have a go and an acceptance of the results.

The results of the photos that I see above are very good cut and shut,kit bashed models,finished to a very good standard,which is no mean feat.

Keep up the good work and enjoy recreating models that very few people would even consider let alone try to attempt. My own modelling goes down a similar route, hence my layout thread having the title 'lookalike tribute'...

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It's great to see another following the "bodge" route; This forum has a very healthy mixture of different "brands" of modelling  - the road you choose will be determined by all kinds of factors - including cash and skills, of course.

 

May I offer a  working definition of "bodger" - which is NOT a derogatory term.  and which I am proud to use for myself!

 

A model railway "bodger" is :

 

1. An enthusiast who knows they have not the skill, or the time, or the cash to acquire, produce and run a desired selection of finescale models but who nevertheless is prepared to have a go at making something different by….
2. “Bodging” (chopping up) plastic r-t-r and kit models in an effort to produce a railway which has the atmosphere and essential character of the real thing.

3.   Who knows and grows to love the word “compromise" 

 

Happy New Year everyone

 

keep them coming.

 

Colm

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Many thanks Colm, I'm (almost New Year) honoured!

 

I draw inspiration from yourself and others on this forum, in particular Ben Alder with his marvellous recreation of 1950s Scottish Highlands railways.

 

The background to this exercise in cutting and shutting is as follows: in June 1964, the Irish Railway Record Society, the Stephenson Locomotive Society and the Railway Correspondence & Travel Society ( do either of the latter two exist I wonder?) organised a week long steam hauled tour of Ireland. As you might expect, many rolls of film were exposed.

The train, on the CIE/ Rep of Ireland part of the tour was composed of five bogie coaches with a guards luggage van at either end.

One of these was a 6 wheel wooden van, built I suspect by the Great Southern & Western Railway Ireland in the early 1900s.

 

Building a representation of this is relatively straightforward, using the sides from two Ratio GWR 4 wheel brake thirds.

Leaving out one guards look out gives you sides approx 30 foot in length.

Mount on the Ratio under frame, adding a middle axel guard cut from the spare frame ( the middle wheel is dummy) and that's about it.

In 1964, the van was painted in the then new "black and tan" livery but my layout is set a year earlier - 1963.

Therefore, I've taken the opportunity to paint it in light CIE green on one side.

 

If I were doing it again, and in this case I might, I would widen it to c. 8 foot 6 inches or a bit more - the kit scales out at 8 foot. This would more closely resemble the wider look of Irish stock but that then raises the question of track gauge....... Not going there!

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Thanks Kirley, I've modelled Pettigo Co Donegal, on the Bundoran branch. Hence the corrugated shelters to protect the faithful on their journey to and from Lough Derg!

 

I'll put up something on the layout itself in the near future, although it is quite simple really.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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  • 5 weeks later...

Irish goods trains were predominately composed of covered vans; a consequence I suppose of the virtual absence of minerals in this country.

Still, we can justify a few.

 

This one is based on the old Hornby Dublo wagon which I bought at a toy fair in Dublin for about €2 or €3.

It was mounted on the old solid cast chassis (although that didn't go to waste.....).

While it must be at least 50 years old, I've always felt that the body moulding could stand comparison with anything produced today.

It's mounted on a Parkside Dundas chassis, buffers by MJT while the brake gear (always very basic on Irish wagons) is from an etch produced by Studio Scale Models (SSM), who produce quite a range of items, including full kits, for Irish modellers.

Decals are also from SSM.

I subjected the body to a bit of bruising and battering; basically just hit it with whatever is to hand; very high tech.

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I mentioned in my previous post that the original Hornby Dublo solid cast chassis didn't go to waste. I am though slightly hesitant about putting this up as some might say I am dragging modelling back to the Stone Age but other magpie modellers might approve!

First, a little background.

On retirement from the Southern Railway in England, Oliver Bullied was appointed CME by the newly nationalised Irish transport company, CIE. He held this position until retiring in 1957.

There he pursued his interest in " new improved steam engines", but this time designed to run on Ireland's only native fuel, turf ( or peat to others). Let's just say it didn't represent the future.

He did however oversee the widespread introduction of diesel to CIE although the order for the A and C class Metro-Vicks, with their Crossley engines ( think Class 28 on BR....) might be seen as a stain on his career but then the advice to 'Buy American' was ignored by a Government short of Dollars.

Anyway, he introduced a new wagon chassis, triangular in form which I imagine was intended to reduce materials and weight.

This chassis was used under new construction vans and an open wagon whose body was made from corrugated metal.

 

I have built a small fleet of these over the years, to run in a ballast train, although the chassis cannot be said to represent the triangulated prototype.

I should say that a model is now available, both RTR and a kit, from Provincial Wagons and it is mounted on a proper Bullied chassis.

 

Regards,

Glover

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  • 8 months later...

I hadn't realised it was so long since I added to this thread but I can say in my defence that I was busy; judge for yourself whether that' busy-ness' was productive.

 

I started this thread with a relatively straightforward conversion of the venerable Hornby GWR clerestory coach, to create a near likeness of the wooden bodied, non-corridor stock built by the Great Southern & Western Railway and its successor, the Great Southern Railway (Ireland). The key differences versus the GWR coaches is that the GSR ones were longer (60') and wider; Irish track gauge is 5'3".

 

This coach is intended to represent a GSR composite and is a fusing together of the passenger sections of the brake 3rd and those from the other Hornby coach, which has wider compartments.

The sides have been increased slightly in height while the ends are from the Ratio 4-wheel GWR coach kits; these kits were used to build the 6-wheel luggage van featured earlier.

Note that the guards look outs are at the end of the coach, as per standard GSR practice.

The roof was formed using the oft recommended method of heating the plastic and curving around some suitable former. Can't say it ever worked for me but I kept this one in my scrap box for years, until I found a use for it. I could say that the coach would have been very old at this stage ( my Pettigo layout is set in the summer of 1963) but in fact, the GSR built two brake/composites specifically for the suburban Harcourt Street line in 1931.

 

The biggest part of the project was reducing the amount of panelling on the sides; GSR coaches were not as ornate as those built by the GWR. This helps I suppose to mask somewhat its Hornby origins.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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I now have a five coach set of wooden bodied, non corridor coaches which I view as an excursion set.

The (then) Irish railway company, CIE, operated such a set on Dublin suburban services in the late 1960s/early 1970s. They feature quite often in the photographic albums of Michael Baker. Given that my layout is set in 1963, this represents a form of 'back to the future' modelling.

 

This brake/third uses the body panels from the Ratio GWR 4-wheel coach kits. As before, the sides are heightened slightly and the ends widened.

It is finished in the green livery used by CIE from the mid 1950s until the advent of the 'black and tan' livery introduced in 1962. Note the logo known as the 'flying snail', which I omitted from the previously detailed brake/composite; its use wasn't absolutely universal.

 

I hope these notes and photos might be of use to anyone attempting to model Irish railways in the early 1960s.

 

Cheers,

Glover

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The CIE excursion set is completed by two relatively standard kits, intended for British railway companies.

 

This is the Ratio Midland Railway 3rd class coach. The Ratio bogies gave up the ghost many years ago and were replaced by Bachman LMS bogies. It is finished in the then new 'black and tan' livery, which actually suited these old vehicles quite well.

 

It is too short to be what it pretends to be; it should be a sixty footer. I think it would be relatively easy to build it to the correct length , using two Ratio kits. I imagine that if you bought three kits, you could build two coaches.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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The final coach in the excursion set is an old Ian Kirk LNER kit. It is intended to be viewed as an ex Great Northern Railway (Ireland) coach and therefore relevant to the GNRs Bundoran branch.

 

I bought it many years ago in the now gone Kings Cross model shop. I used to travel to London quite often and used the original Ryanair service from Dublin to Luton; the noise of those BAC 1-11s !

The train ran to a then rather shabby St Pancras. I always tried to create ten or fifteen minutes at the end of the day, to visit the Kings Cross shop.

 

I am sure you will be impressed with the fine scale reproduction of a broken window........ I've no idea how it happened (house move perhaps) and the roof is firmly glued in place.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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Looks super.  Nostalgia lane.  Btw they weren't real BAC 1-11's, they were leased with crews from Tarom who built them in Romania under license from BAC!!!  But the real BAC 1-11s were the 'spitfire' of pax jets - pilots loved them.

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A feast after the famine Glover, I really like your type of modelling.  The LNER Ian Kirk kit, I never built any of his, it is the 8 Compartment 3rd you used?  Lots of suggestions for the Ratio kits also, food for thought!

Many thanks Kirley.

Yes, the Ian Kirk coach is the 8 compartment third. I think these kits have been off the market for many years. A pity as they could form the basis of GNR(I) 'look-a likes'.

 

Cheers,

Glover

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Looks super.  Nostalgia lane.  Btw they weren't real BAC 1-11's, they were leased with crews from Tarom who built them in Romania under license from BAC!!!  But the real BAC 1-11s were the 'spitfire' of pax jets - pilots loved them.

You obviously know your aviation history Noel! You are correct; I think the aircraft were known as RomBAC's within the trade.

 

Cheers,

Glover

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You obviously know your aviation history Noel! You are correct; I think the aircraft were known as RomBAC's within the trade.

 

Cheers,

Glover

 

 

I remember one landed meters short of the threshold in Cork about 28 years ago during winter.  Luckily it had not rained for weeks and the ground was hard enough to stop the main gear digging in, therefore avoiding being ripped off when the wheels would have hit the end of the rwy.  Could have been very nasty had the ground been its usual winter soft.  Nowadays most runways have hard filling under the grass for at least 150m each end.

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