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Glover

Glover's Irish Railways Workbench

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Funnily enough the Irish van 16586 was most likely built as an insulated van for perishable traffic similar to the Hornby Dublo model, several of these remained in traffic into the mid-1970s possibly to the end of loose coupled goods operation.

 

This probably explains why they remained in service longer than GNR & CIE vans of similar construction like https://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/6934138160/in/album-72157629831107647/

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Interesting point John.

Now that you say it, 16586 is quite similar to the GNR butter vans.

 

Many thanks,

 

Glover

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My project for Q3 of this year was to build another brake/passenger coach to represent the through UTA coach from Belfast. Remember that my model of Pettigo assumes that the Bundoran branch of the Great Northern Railway (Ireland), and other lines in that part of west Ulster remained open until 1963. Furthermore, I have assumed that it was operated as a joint enterprise between CIE ( Republic of Ireland) and the Ulster Transport Authority (Northern Ireland).

In my imaginary world, the Bundoran Express still runs to and from Dublin on a daily basis, picking up the Belfast coach at Clones.

 

I had a look through the Worsley Works website and decided that a J4 brake/trio (3 classes, at least until 1951) would fit the bill. There are a number of photos of these coaches in service on the 'Derry Road' and other areas relevant to the Bundoran branch.

However, on contacting Allan Doherty, he advised me that the J4 was not available and might not be for some time. As a form of compensation, he offer me a L6 brake/third at a reduced price.

I looked through my various books and concluded that the L6 wasn't really appropriate: it has a very large guards/luggage section and would thus be unsuitable for a through coach.

Then another thought occurred to me: why not move another project up the list? That being the 1.35PM passenger which ran from Pettigo to Enniskillen, following the Up Bundoran Express but stopping at all stations in Northern Ireland. So, back to Allan and a deal was agreed to buy the L6 bk/3rd and a K8 third. Both are based on wooden bodied coaches with panelling and match board ends.

So, this is where I started.

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I have to admit that metal is not my material of choice; give me plastic every time. Therefore, I glue metal kits together. I know that will cause Outrage! in some quarters but it works for me.

Essentially I superglue strips of plastic at the metal to metal joints and thus the joints become plastic to plastic.

Rolling the tumblehome/turnunder was reasonably straightforward ; just keep offering up the sides to the ends to check progress.

While at this stage, I happened to read in an old Model Railway Journal an article wherein the writer noted that etched coach sides were a boon for those modelling more modern flush sided coaches but in reality, the glazing should be set further back on older wooden sides vehicles. That seemed to make sense and therefore I glued plastic strips inside around the windows.

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I didn't actually use the brass floor/chassis supplied with the kit. Having previously built two other Worsley Works kits, I reckoned that the end result was too heavy.

Therefore, I used plastic. This also makes it easier to fit the underside gubbins and the interiors. Is there anything more tedious than making what seems like hundreds of seat backs, seat cushions etc etc? I can never seem to find British coach interiors suitable for Irish coaches.

The under floor details are representational only. The trussing (right term?) is formed from paper clips......just like what they used to do in the Railway Modeller in the 1960s!

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The original intention was to build the two coaches in sequential order but then thought that there might be some benefits in building them simultaneously. I think that proved to be the correct decision.

 

Here are both in their UTA green livery, with the post 1959 armorial device (whatever that is but it sure isn't one of the world great brand marks!).

One serious error is the use of Bachmann LMS bogies. They should be mounted on Fox bogies. Dart Castings/MJT do one which looks about right but when I added up the cost of buying all the individual bits (plus postage), it was heading for the cost of the actual coaches themselves. Another time perhaps.

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Many of my CIE coaches are painted in the older green livery on one side and the newer (around 1962 I think) 'black and 'tan' livery on the other. As my layout is set in 1963, this allows me to represent that transition period.

There appears to be no such choice in modelling the UTA in that period; everything green. Except it wasn't !

 

It seems that the UTA prioritised repainting the more modern GNR coaches and thus there were quite a few older GNR coaches still running in the old varnished wood finish, five years after the demise of the GNR. This is the first time I have ever attempted this finish and I have to say that I am well pleased with the result. Note that on this side, I have used the older UTA Red Hand roundal.

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The mahogany colour looks the part.

Edited by kirley

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I took some photos outdoors; the varnished wood finish I think works better in sunlight.

I have childhood memories of GNR coaches (and railcars) in the blue and cream livery in Amiens Street Dublin station (now Connolly) but none of the varnished coaches. In truth, while it can look rather elegant, it's not a particularly 'stand-out' colour scheme.

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That colour looks very good.

What paint do you use for that?

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Thanks Pat,

 

I followed the process outlined by Mike Trice on this forum some years ago. If you search for 'painting LNER coaches' , you should get it.

The basic steps are:

1. Metal primer; this is probably only necessary on brass kits.

2. White primer.

3. Base colour of orange or yellow, using any cheap acrylic paint.

4. The interesting bit! Mix artists oil Burnt Umber with Liquin Original. This is not a new Italian past but some form of mixer which I think causes the paint to streak. Apply using Golden Taklon brushes. All of these can be bought in art supply shops.

5. Varnish to taste.

 

This is the first time I have ever attempted this and I have to say it is probably easier than applying a multi colour scheme such as the CIE 'black and tan' livery.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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This is number five in my five/six brake/passenger coach project: a GNR J4 brake-trio (1st,2nd & 3rd class, with separate WCs for each class). From that information alone, you can deduce that they were built in a long gone era; circa 1916 to 1920.

The Ulster Transport Authority (UTA) inherited five of them on the break up of the GNR, with the last one being withdrawn in 1967.

 

Worsley Works do list the J4 on their web site but it was not available when I enquired. Nothing for it then but build it myself....

 

I had no drawings but equipped with basic measurements (58' length etc) plus window, panel etc measurements copied over from my previous Worsley Works builds, I was able to put something together which looks 'about right'.

 

Here is a photo; I'll follow up with some notes that might be of interest.

 

Cheers,

Glover

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The basic build followed the procedures set out in Geoff Kent's great series of articles some years ago in the Model Railway Journal.

 

Basic material was 20thou plastic plus thin Evergreen plastic strips for the panel mouldings.

Thankfully, the windows are square cornered but there is still a lot of marking and cutting out; lots of patience required.

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The interiors were scratch built in plastic.

 

I choose a sort of dusty pink for first class, which seems a typical type of colour for furniture of that era. Second class is blue with green for third class. The wood framing varies from elaborate in 1st to basic in 3rd. I should say that all of this is from my imagination but seems consistent with the notions of class distinctions in those days.

Others who have built coaches will I am sure agree that the actual finishing takes at least as long as the basic structure.

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One new technique I tried on this build was the use of a Pocca fine point ink pen to achieve the lining; much easier than paint.

They are available from art shops and might very well be worth considering by those looking for a solution to this issue.

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As is my usual practice, I painted the coach in a different livery on the other side.

The UTA retained older, wooden bodied coaches in their old GNR livery, often to the end of their working lives. My layout is set in 1963 and there are photos of coaches still in GNR varnished wood livery in this period.

I have however attempted to replicate the 'UT' which the UTA applied to the end of their inherited stock, in the same way that CIE marked out their possessions.

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Which is easier: scratch building or some of the more elaborate conversions I've undertaken to build Irish coaches?

 

It's actually a close run thing and on mature reflection, I would say building from scratch is probably the easier and/or better option. It just takes a bit more courage and determination to get going on a scratch build.

 

I'm not sure what's next; I'm a bit 'coached-out' at the moment but I can take some encouragement from the photo below showing a short GNR train.

 

Thanks,

 

Glover

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Thanks for the tips and showing some new techniques.  Next a locomotive maybe?

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Thanks Kirley.

I did say on your Jeep build thread that I have a Hornby Fowler in stock with a view to a conversion along the lines of the work that Colm Flannigan has done.

 

I have to admit to something of a love/hate relationship with models of Irish steam locos. I'm prepared to turn many a blind eye to the issues raised by running 4mm Irish models on 16.5mm track but steam engines do bother me. Irish locos were generally quite small and the boilers often appeared to hunker down between the driving wheels. Difficult to achieve that look on track which scales out at more than a foot under gauge. I've even messed around with the notion of building boilers to something like H0 scale!

 

Maybe it's just me, and I do feel comfortable with 'under-gauged' Jeeps (the side tanks mask this issue) but another possibility for my local UTA train is to use a 700 series double ended BUT railcar, pulling a single brake/passenger coach. The GNR actually ran such a train for a short time as an express from Enniskillen to Belfast. It did of course require the railcar running round its 'train' at Omagh.

 

We'll see.

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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The newly nationalised railway in the Rep of Ireland, CIE, built 101 new bogie coaches in the period between 1951 and 1956. They were built to what could be termed a 'boxy' side profile ; a turnunder but straight thereafter to the roof. They are easily identified in typical trains of the 1950/60s, with their 'square shoulders' standing out from other coaches.

The intention was to run them as trailers/intermediates in the then recently introduced AEC railcars; the 2600 series. For those who want further details, might I refer you to my workbench on the www.irishrailwaymodeller.com website.

The coach is scratchbuilt, from plastic. But, it was far from straightforward.......I'll do a few additional notes on why that was so.

Glover

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The key reason why this build was more difficult than anticipated was a failure to undertake proper strategic planning. The Objectives were imprecise and therefore the Strategy was confused which of course meant that the Planning was all over the shop! For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a political comment........

Some years ago, I replicated a rather clever conversion, based on an article in the twice annual newsletter, New Irish Lines. In essence, take one of the old Hornby LMS Stanier coaches, cut it in half , turn one end round and glue it to the middle of the other half. You also need to source and add a new door end.

The idea was to update and refurbish but decided that achieving the correct length (61'6"/ 246mm) was just too involved. So, bin that one.

Glover

ps I've no idea why I painted the roof light grey.

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Hi Glover,

 

As I am a recent member I only now have the opportunity to comment on your efforts over the last couple of years. One word - SUPERB!

 

I, like you, am a student of compromise. However, many of your coaches / vans look far from "compromise", they look the total part to me. It can be small details that make the difference on a 'hack' job.

 

Like you, I also paint carriages in different liveries on either side. There can be few model layout situations where you see both sides of a train at the same time.

 

However of late, I have gone a step further in only "treating" one side of a donor coach. It saves time (two coaches in the time it used to take one) and I find the vehicle has a greater rigidity with only one side hacked out of the original.

 

Some time back Colm Flanagan very kindly fitted up five Mainline 57' LMS vehicles with modified (57' instead of the correct 58') GNR K 15 / L 12 side profile etches he had obtained from a supplier, for my behalf. I have had them back for some time and have yet to finish them off. With the exception of one K 15 which will have BUT corridor connections fitted, the others I have decided to split. As my layout is viewed only from the front (sort of 'exhibition' style), painting each side differently to represent different coaches means having to dive under the front boards to visit the hidden sidings and turn each coach around. Much easier thinks I to use another four 'donor' vehicles and fit a K 15 or an L 12 side to only one side of each vehicle. With me so far?

 

On completion this exercise plans to produce 3 x K15 and 1 x L 12 in UTA 'green' livery (to make up a 1964 Belfast-Dublin "Tourist" train - with a Kitchen car). The spare sides will accordingly provide for another set of 3 x K 15 and an L 12. One K 15 will go into GNR 'mahogany' as will the L 12, the other K 15' s into CIE 'black and orange'.

 

My other project concerns altering 60' Airfix / Dapol LMS composites into GNR classes B 10 (Buffet) C 2, D 5 and K 24, all of which were built on a 60' chassis.

 

Will keep you posted .

 

P.S. Loved the "First Aid" exchange between you and Kieran.......... 

 

 

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Very many thanks for your kind words Lambeg.

 

Your idea about 'doing' just one side of each coach is interesting; it strikes me as the way a theatre person might approach railway modelling. And, no harm in that.

I suspect you are working in or about the same era as myself: early 1960s. 

 

I'm sure we'd all love to see some photos. Modellers of Irish railways are a small community here but I like to think that we do produce some fine models. Or, in the case of Kirley, hundreds of them!!

 

Cheers,

 

Glover

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Hello again Glover,

 

My model is based in Mid-Late 1960's (with the odd stretch to accommodate that GNR 'U'). Photographs are a work in progress.

 

I suppose I really should start my own thread rather than clogging your's.

 

In the mean time,

 

Kind Regards  

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Clog away Lambeg! I've no problems with more GNR material in my thread but you would actually be better starting your own. It creates a home for your own work and a useful record for yourself of work done.

 

Cheers,

Glover

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