SG's descent into comparing Swiss n gauge - Formally; SBB Coaching Stock Liveries

[chb1988]

Regarding your first question, your Ew I is part of the batch 50 85 20-33 420 to 444. They were never equipped for push-pull operation (c.f. the 33 instead of 35 in the UIC number).

[olivegreen]

Might find this link works better

 

http://www.reisezuege.ch/

 

Brian

 

Another example of the great information I find here!  Many thanks for that link (to a site that I didn't know existed) - fascinating.

 

Mike

[Gordonwis]

Spot the quality difference between a Brawa ew2 and a Lima ew1....

 

Not too bad from normal viewing distance though. And yes there's the slight length difference between a ew1 and ew2 as mentioned on the previous page

 

Edit: my lima ew1 has 'opening windows', those pictured on the previous page do not. Was there differences or upgrades over the life of the ew1? Thanks

 

 

 

 

1) I agree about normal viewing distance. I run my Lima (...Minitrain...Minibahn..) and Brawa versions together and can't see a problem.

 

2) The batch of EW1 was built like that. I would leave your EWI with opening windows well alone. IMO it is a nice enough representation of a slightly different variant which is nice to have.

This type of window is referred to in some SBB documents as 'UIC window'

Edited November 10, 2017 by Gordonwis

[Satan's Goldfish]

1) I agree about normal viewing distance. I run my Lima (...Minitrain...Minibahn..) and Brawa versions together and can't see a problem.

 

2) The batch of EW1 was built like that. I would leave your EWI with opening windows well alone. IMO it is a nice enough representation of a slightly different variant which is nice to have.

This type of window is referred to in some SBB documents as 'UIC window'

Thanks for the input, I'm just struggling to find any pictures of ew1 carriages with those windows. Final Lima coach has arrived, without opening windows (But with roof vents) and does make for a good variation of coaches with Lima, Brawa, and a Minitrix baggage van.

 

 

I could do with a proper photo plank...

[DaveF]

Thanks for the input, I'm just struggling to find any pictures of ew1 carriages with those windows. Final Lima coach has arrived, without opening windows (But with roof vents) and does make for a good variation of coaches with Lima, Brawa, and a Minitrix baggage van.

 

20171110_163228.jpg

 

I could do with a proper photo plank...

 

The EW1 with the opening windows were built in 1962, Full numbers were 50 85 20-33 420-444  All B (ie second class). 

 

Source:  SBB Reisezug and Gepackwagen    published by SBB  in 1982

 

 

David

[Gordonwis]

Thanks for the input, I'm just struggling to find any pictures of ew1 carriages with those windows. 

 

 

The two types of window in EWI and EWII are called 

• "Senkfenster" (the whole opening window with either two knobs roughly 3/4 of the way up the window or larger handles at the top)  
•  "Übersetzfenster" (the half opening 'UIC' type)

There is a picture of one here:

 

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/SBB_CFF_FFS/car/EW_I/B/EWI_020901rp.jpg

 

.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Kinda related fresh question. N scale still, but do the Italians use a slightly larger wheel diameter than the the Swiss? Or is it just Arnold using bigger wheels than minitrix? There does seem to be a little more Arnold flange, but not quite enough to make that big a difference in height.

 

 

Ta all

[Satan's Goldfish]

Will find some appropriate replacement sets. Ta.

[Gordonwis]

Older Arnold wheelsets were bulkier than Minitrix. Also, Arnold bogies are probably set higher - a bit like Fleischmann coaches which stand too high.

 

Having said that you should compare heights when the coaches are on rails, not as pictured with the coaches standing on the flanges on a flat surface, as the flange height varies beween wheelsets of different types and manufacturers.

 

Also, the Arnold model pictured shows up the much more 'rudimentary' construction style of the Arnold Eurofimas against the Minitrix and Roco.

 

 

.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Gordonwis

[Satan's Goldfish]

Will dig out some track...

 

Yes, there's definitely a quality difference. However, normal viewing distance caveat applies!

 

I managed to find another 'cheap' Brawa ew2 as well which I'm pleased at. Was after comfort stripe but got clown vomit.

[Gordonwis]

SBB RBe railcar, EW stock and driving trailers... now promised from Piko for 2018 onwards...

 

Pretty irritating because then there will be 3 manufacturers' versions of decent models of EW I/II (Lima/Minibahn/Minitrain/Arnold and Brawa and Piko) - all slightly different, plus two manufacturers' decent models of RBe (Arnold and Piko)...and of course Piko are not going to issue the driving trailers separately from the RBe railcars, irritating and costly for those of us who invested in 4 or more Arnold RBe's! 

.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Gordonwis

[Satan's Goldfish]

The lack of driving trailers is why I've not looked at an RBe. I think the closest I've seen to a modellable option was 6x ew i/ii with an RBe at each end. Will keep an eye on Piko's news.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Checked the Arnold coach on track for height comparison. Not bad. Here between Minitrix EC and Hobbytrain RIC:

 

 

 

 

And its hoped more usual EC sandwich:

 

 

Sleight height/quality differences not noticeable at usual viewing distance.

 

 

 

Also found a Brawa ewii in 'clown vomit' at a price too good to ignore. However, comparing it's shade of green with the other carriages it seems darker, especially next to the baggage van. So is the base shade of green on these darker than the previous sbb standard, or is it a difference in model makers interpretations?

 

 

 

Nice addition to the set nonetheless.

[Satan's Goldfish]

I've retitled the thread so I can expand from just coach liveries. At some point a layout may result too, boards were built earlier this month (simple 2 tracks through scenery... so there is no plan to share), but for the time being a fish tank top will still be the photo plank.

 

First up, Mrs SG treated me to some Fleischmann ewiv coaches in ICN livery. They compare very well to the roco coaches I already have They came with a driving trailer, so I'll need to find an RE460 to run the full set.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A set of 6 DB open wagons from Fleischmann have been added to the freight collection. A lot of the wagons (Not counting intermodal) in the numerous Gotthard videos on youtube seem to be of DB origin, which is very useful. And quite a few seem to have a large portion of open wagons like this, which is an improvement over the 1970s vintage wagons currently making up most of my freight.

 

Finally, the wife got me an Arnold RE420. So a comparison with the Minitrix version had to be made! (Minitrix single pan, Arnold double pan)

 

 

 

The chassis is clearly very different between the 2 but the heights appear much the same once the roof is reached. This suggests a difference in body height to compensate. There is a slight difference in length of about 1mm over buffers too:

 

 

 

And from the ends the Minitrix is version is definitely the better looking.

 

 

 

 

That is all for today's review. Have a good new year!

[Gordonwis]

Checked the Arnold coach on track for height comparison. Not bad. Here between Minitrix EC and Hobbytrain RIC:

 

20171224_113407.jpg

 

Sleight height/quality differences not noticeable at usual viewing distance.

 

 

 However, comparing it's shade of green with the other carriages it seems darker, especially next to the baggage van. So is the base shade of green on these darker than the previous sbb standard, or is it a difference in model makers interpretations?

 

 

1) I dislike (and avoid buying) the Arnold Eurofima as the end doors are weird and the windows are too square IMO.

 

2) The green on the Brawa 'papagei' is not too dark IMO. It is an optical illusion, the lighter shades adjacent make the plain green look darker than it is (a similar debate has taken place over many years with the green livery on French coaches). 

 

The other significant point to mention is that the (very) old baggage car is the Minitrix version where the shade of green was always too light.

 

 

.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Gordonwis

[Satan's Goldfish]

SBB RBe railcar, EW stock and driving trailers... now promised from Piko for 2018 onwards...

 

Pretty irritating because then there will be 3 manufacturers' versions of decent models of EW I/II (Lima/Minibahn/Minitrain/Arnold and Brawa and Piko) - all slightly different, plus two manufacturers' decent models of RBe (Arnold and Piko)...and of course Piko are not going to issue the driving trailers separately from the RBe railcars, irritating and costly for those of us who invested in 4 or more Arnold RBe's! 

.

  

The lack of driving trailers is why I've not looked at an RBe. I think the closest I've seen to a modellable option was 6x ew i/ii with an RBe at each end. Will keep an eye on Piko's news.

For those wanting to do something manageable with their RBe's, just seen the opening train in this video; 2x RBe's sandwiching 4x new i/ii coaches.

 

https://youtu.be/6pNl12a9LPU

 

Hope that helps someone without driving trailers!

[Frutigen]

So is the base shade of green on these darker than the previous sbb standard, or is it a difference in model makers interpretations?

 

This photo just published on flickr suggests there is a difference in the shades of green.

 

https://flic.kr/p/2cmqS7s

[Satan's Goldfish]

This photo just published on flickr suggests there is a difference in the shades of green.https://flic.kr/p/2cmqS7s

Thank you, that does show a difference. There are some brilliant photos in that group, good find.

[Satan's Goldfish]

I thought Winco had stopped trading? Or are they still clearing the last of their stock? Received a couple of Brawa coaches via Ebay from them, took me by surprise... the sender, not the coaches

[JimFin]

Clearing stock, have a list of available items on their website - http://www.winco.uk.com/

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers Jim. Well that's an expensive that Mrs SG will hate me seeing!

[DavidMcKenzie]

Just back from a holiday including a brilliant ride on the Swiss railway and it sparked a search on the forum. I am afraid I have almost no useful information about the carriages, but I've found it very interesting and useful to read.

 

If this turns into a layout at some point I'd be following with interest. Do you have any plans?

 

I've take some photo's (2 samples below) sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but does anyone know if a thread exisits with swiss rail photo's? I've used the search function and not found anything other than a lot of great photo's from DaveF. I have nothing like his superb collection and my photo's don't fit his tread because they are all current. I've found other people's photo's of the wcml very helpful when modelling my current layout and wanted to share what I've got on the off chance they are useful to someone out there.

 

 

All the best

Dave 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by DavidMcKenzie

[Satan's Goldfish]

Hi Dave,

 

I do have a layout in mind for all the bits I've been collecting but I'm keeping the plan to myself at the moment,... plus it probably won't get started anytime soon!

 

There's a photo thread here: 

i started it from my trips but really don't mind if others add their pictures too. We're overdue a long weekend in Luzern so it might motivate a visit!

[eastwestdivide]

8 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

I've used the search function and not found anything other than a lot of great photo's from DaveF

You tend to get better results by typing your search term and rmweb into google, rather than via the forum's own search (although that seems to have improved a bit in the current forum software).

Most threads with photos are in this Swiss Railways subforum anyway.

[Satan's Goldfish]

On this subject though, I had a small bonus from work so treated myself to some items of stock before the wife spent the rest of it. Couple of carriages, but just more of what I've got so nothing special there. And from a couple of sources I managed to create a short postal service using the Creanorm container flats. Not a company I'd ever heard of before, but the wagons seem ok, were good value, and some Swiss postal services are fairly short (seen a pic with just 1 loaded wagon) so with a red or green RE420 up front this will be a nice colourful train.