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Everyone,

 

After much procrastination and an abortive attempt to describe my layout project on another related thread I have been encouraged by Jeff "Physicsman" to take the plunge and start a layout thread.

My 2017 New Year's resolution is to maintain some modelling momentum with this project and provide regular updates as I make progress.

 

The story so far:

My interest in the S&C started in the 1980s as a teenager fascinated by the line and threat of closure.  After several short holidays to the area, staying in Kirkby Stephen and Hawes, I resolved to build my next layout based on Garsdale.  A start was made in the loft of my parents' house using Peco Code 100 and got as far as track laying and electrics, but little else.

 

University, jobs, girlfriend (wife to be), multiple house purchases and moves, children, cats, dogs, cars and other distractions successfully constrained my modelling commitments: in terms of time and money.  Over the last 5-6 years these constraints lifted and having a 31'x8'6" garage ripe for conversion to a railway room, I began to scheme.

 

The garage conversion started 3 years ago, together with the planning of the layout.  After much deliberation, I determined my best option was to arrange the layout on 2 levels.  The basic configuration is a "roundy roundy" with recreations of Dent (thanks to Mike61680 for much inspiration) and Garsdale.  I want to be able to run near prototypical length trains (9-10 carriages) and for the layout to recreate trains running through the landscape.  My preference is to model 1950s-1960s practices and I already have an overly large collection of relevant locos (steam and diesel), coaching, parcels and freight stock. 

 

Baseboards are 9mm ply on softwood frames provided by Harry Maynard from The Model Shop in Woodchurch (usual caveats apply).   The upper level is 110mm above the lower level, I hope this will give enough depth to recreate hillsides falling away below the line into Dentdale/Garsdale.  Track is a mixture of Peco code 75 large radius points in the scenic areas and Roco Geoline code 83.  Other RMWeb threads suggesting that Roco could provide more reliable single and double slips needed. Time will tell!

 

The lower level will be dedicated to storage, effectively representing Leeds and Carlisle, each location would have 7 x 20' lines with a Peco turntable half way to dissect each line into 10' lengths.  An 8th 10' road will provide a loco storage/feeder.  The lower level will also have a 3 x 10' storage area for the Hawes branch from Garsdale.  Overall this should provide over 300' of storage.  I had wanted to model Hawes station, but the space would not allow this indulgence. 

 

The storage roads will be fed by single lines (with passing loops) on a 1:90 gradient at the rear of the boards and concealed with scenery.  Initially I had planned to use Woodland Scenics 2% gradients (1:50) but as pointed out by Peach James, the gradient was too steep (Thanks James :-)). 

 

In plan A, the storage roads were to be at the front of the layout.  This has been abandoned in favour of siting them at the rear in front of the gradients feeding the storage roads.  This will allow for more scenic potential at the front but makes the storage roads and turntables inaccessible.  To solve for this issue, a number of small cameras as used on Liverpool Lime St. have been acquired to be linked to a 22' TV screen to reveal what might be going on!  The turntables will be motorised and aligned "by eye" using the suitably located cameras.  Note the use of term storage roads - as no trains will be marshalled here, everything will be in fixed formations.

 

The upper level will be effectively two dioramas, one of Dent station and the other Garsdale.  The latter will include an "impression" of Dandry Mire Viaduct at the far end of the layout in a lowered section.  An "impression" because it will be significantly shorter than the real thing.

 

I will upload some new photos in the coming days and provide regular updates.

 

I would also like to extend my thanks to a host of RMweb colleagues for endless inspiration and their ongoing guidance.

Steve

 

 

 

Edited by sjp23480
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Steve, I'm really pleased you've decided to start the thread we discussed a while back.

 

Especially pleased given that you were the FIRST to reply to my initial post on the KL thread.

 

Having seen the work you've already put into your project, it'll be a welcome addition to the layouts in the Section.

 

Well done that man!

 

Jeff

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Thanks Jeff,

 

I will try to live into your lofty expectations!  :-)

 

I promised some pictures, as follows:

 

1st Image:

This is the junction that provides access to the storage yards.  As you can see, this is on the removable bridge section that allows access to the room. 

The up/down mainlines are the four tracks closest to the camera, the curved turnout to the rear left feeds the down storage (Carlisle) and the one to top right feeds the up (Leeds).  The Baesler outside (double) slip is by Roco and will enable both lines to access the storage with the down line running through the slip and the up line using the by pass closest to the camera.  I hope that's clear!

 

post-660-0-72454100-1482959597.jpg

 

2nd image

Shows the entrance to the storage roads for the Hawes branch, which runs underneath the junction described above:

 

post-660-0-41297800-1482959952.jpg

 

3rd image

Shows the up storage roads which will be below Dent, looking towards the turntable.  7 roads will be on the cork that is already laid, as the tracks are straight they will be laid closer than usual.  Behind them will run the 3 storage roads for the Hawes branch which will also feed into the turntable.  Behind these three lines, is the down gradient from the junction to access the up (Carlisle) storage.

 

post-660-0-04390000-1482960107.jpg

 

4th image

Moving along slightly, the turntable is in position.  Each turntable will have 5 entry/exit roads mirrored to enable trains to run over the turntable to furthest storage lines.  The curved points provide the 6/7th roads.  I had considered running them off the turntable, but the tracks would have to flare out too far so the turnouts seem to be the solution.  The 3 Hawes roads will consolidate down to one line to access the turntable.

 

post-660-0-10677600-1482960280.jpg

 

5th image

Is the reverse view looking back to the junction.  The former position of the turntable can be seen to the right in this shot, together with the remnants of the glue used to secure the flooring underlay previously contemplated as the track bed for the storage roads.  I am still learning!

 

post-660-0-63278400-1482960337.jpg

 

More to follow!

Steve

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Update 2

 

Image 1

Shows the initial thinking for the approach to the up storage roads (Leeds) as a single access line needs to flare to 7/8 roads.  The approaches to the storage roads will also have a lay by to provide some flexibility as trains enter/leave these lines.  You can see the curved gradient approach to the down storage at the rear of the board.

 

post-660-0-68838800-1482961219.jpg

 

Image 2

Shows the same for the down storage (Carlisle), together with the short crossings that allow the up/down storage approach roads to cross.  There are two crossings as the down storage splits into two lines on the gradient, as space was a bit limited.

 

post-660-0-76485900-1482961632.jpg

 

Image 3

Shows the board that will contain the Down storage roads, which will be below Garsdale station.  The turntable can be seen just above the pile of track, but a lot of work remains to be done on these boards, including the building of the gradient to work the down storage approach road up to the junction which is top left.

 

post-660-0-22375300-1482961819.jpg

 

The final shot (for today) shows the end board that contains a number of elements:

1. This board is around 70mm lower than the storage boards, as it will accommodate Dandry Mire viaduct, which at 45' high needs a board 180mm below the scenic track level.

2.  At the rear of the board are two gradients:

     a.  The first gradient runs down the gradient right to left across the picture and is for the Hawes branch and links with the storage roads as detailed above.  This is made up of the Woodland Scenics 2% gradient and should be fine given trains will be no longer than 4'.

     b.  A second gradient will run behind this running down the gradient left to right from the junction and carry the approach line to the down storage roads.

 

post-660-0-85274700-1482962283.jpg

 

I hope my narrative helps explain the set up, I have tried to use a couple of packages to draw the plan, but life is too short and I gave up due a lack of patience!

 

Also, apologies for all the detritus, but this is still very much work in progress.

​Steve

 

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Thanks Ben and James,

Looking forward to getting a few hours in over the long weekend.

Just have to focus and Get some stuff done, rather than let my imagination fool me into thinking I am making progress!

Steve

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Thanks 28XX, you are not kidding.

 

I am not sure I have all the skills needed to bring this project to fruition, given the last layout I built was 30+ years ago. But, I am going to give it my best shot and I have plenty of inspiration from RMWenb, having lurked around for several years.

 

As previously mentioned, a number of members have already influenced my thinking, and I am grateful for their advice.

 

Steve

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  • 4 years later...
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Thanks Roy,

 

Unfortunately not, I realised that I had bitten off more than I could chew and the storage board arrangements were hopelessly optimistic in terms of their operation.   I decided not to invest more time in the project and abandoned it a couple of years ago.

 

Having rekindled my modelling mojo, I spent the last lock down recovering all the track, re-configuring the boards and planning a more manageable set up.    The new set up is of Garsdale station only, with extensive, accessible storage facilities.  I copy the new plan below.  Tracklaying of the storage roads has started but progress is slow as work has started to pick up! 

 

I will try to update the thread to keep everyone posted.  Once the current restrictions are lifted and assuming I have some thing to show, you are more than welcome to swing by to take a closer look.

 

Steve

 

 

garsdale junc.jpg

Edited by sjp23480
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Steve, it's really good to see that you still plan to model an S&C related landscape and that the notorious "mojo" - the lack of which affects us all - has returned.

 

Look forward to seeing updates on any progress you make on here.

 

Jeff

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Thanks Jeff@Physicsman.  Thanks for encouragement - it is very much appreciated, I must admit your Gill Head project gave me a much needed kick up the you know what!

 

My reality check was when I came to motorise the turntables, wire the storage roads and build the control panel, which I did in the first lockdown.  But, I was left sitting looking at all the wire feeling totally lost and thinking I would never finish it.  So, I shut the garage door and walked away.  As the weather began to get a bit warmer I ventured back and realised I had lost all interest in it.  

 

What had taken me five years to build was (carefully) ripped up in 48 hours!  :o  All the track, point motors etc have been carefully set aside for the new plan, as most of the track had been pinned this didn't prove too difficult.  

 

The new plan is a lot less complicated and feels more manageable and but I will have a surplus of track, points, buildings and a few other bits and bobs I had been collecting for the previous set up. 

 

Whilst I have a nagging concern the new design will lack operational interest, it is a location I have visited many times since the 1980s and \i promised myself I would model it as accurately as space allows, one day!  

 

Perhaps Mike @67A and I can work together one day to stitch together some footage of trains passing through his Dent and my Garsdale - when it is finally done!  Although I will have competition from @Southern Fabricator and @LNER4479  who are both more advanced with their versions.

 

Steve

 

 

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I think you've made a very good decision. We all think we can deal with oodles of space and a massive project. We probably can, but there's the "mojo" factor to be taken into account. Doing 10% of the project in a year seems great - until you think "hell, I've got another 9 years of this". Then, rightly or wrongly, things can become a drudge.

 

I think posting on here is very motivational. The last thing you need is to be surrounded by sycophants, uttering overly positive comments and showering you with lots and lots of likes. That all means absolutely nothing, in my opinion. What DOES matter is relevant encouragement, help with problem-solving and constructive criticism. Having an easily viewable written and photographic record also helps. For example, it took me from early November until mid March to build my viaduct. There were times when I thought I'd never get round to the landscaping, and putting the viaduct into context. The last month, and everything's gone ballistic, and I can look back and see the progress.

 

I'm pleased to hear you have "rival" Garsdales to motivate you. Gill Head may be a fiction, but it's simply an amalgam of Kirkby Stephen and Arten Gill. So you can send some freights north in my direction anytime you like!

 

Jeff

 

 

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So, in some ways, I disagree with Jeff- if you think of it in terms of "cor, I've got 10 more years of this !", or you can think of it in terms of "gosh, I've got ten more years before this version will be done...".  That being said, it depends on which area of modeling is YOUR go to- if it is running trains, and it's going to take 2 years to get to being able to run trains, then !  mojo alert, it is unlikely to happen.  If it's building buildings, and it takes you 10 years to get to running trains (Hi Jeff !) then that's fine.  I've got about 15 years overall into Long Marton (3), and there are areas which have been redone x2 so far for it, and likely will get redone again.  I view it as a lifetime of progress, hopefully forward, but still something to occupy my time.  (well, that and Canadian Puget Sound II which is eating my time for now, along with some N gauge that seems to have spawned its self, and a Lego rollercoaster that has grown, and the at home Lego that for the first time in years is mostly complete, and my two schmoes who require a bit of time :) ).

I'd suggest (if you facebook), take a look at what Jason Shron has been doing with his project of a lifetime (Kingston Sub), as it is a good look at what can be done, and how to view it particularly from the prospective of where it "had been" a semi-club prior to COVID.  (he had a bunch of the Rapido employees working on his home layout, and still has a bunch of other modelers working on it offsite)

Anyway, I look forward to some progress- right now Long Marton sits taken mostly apart into its modules, because I still have to get a new furnace...

 

James

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James, you are totally correct with respect to different outlooks on what is acceptable progress. To me, shocking as it will be to some people on a model railway forum, I couldn't really care less how long it takes to get trains running (though they could run now, if I chose). As you well know, it's the environment through which the railway passes that matters to me.

 

Now, when I get round to working on the station area my priorities might change. Steve has clearly already done a lot of work in this area, given the nature of his project. So, Steve, maybe a working goods area with plenty of shunting activities might boost the mojo further, as you play with freight stock test your yard for prototypical running! For me, the mojo boost has come from getting the valley and cuttings almost to the point where vegetation and walling can appear.

 

As for the time factor, does anyone REALLY want to "finish" their layout? As long as we feel we are making progress and enjoying ourselves then, what the hell - it can last for years as far as I'm concerned.

 

Jeff

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You may want to distinguish between the layout being complete and finished. Complete may be "trains running through representative scenery"; finished may be "every possible detail and refinement incorporated". (try not to confuse finished with done for.)

 

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Thank you everyone for your comments and perspectives on varying levels of completion.  

 

My immediate aspiration is to get the track down, the electrics done and something running.  Like James (and unlike Jeff) the scenery comes later, but I have the ideas in my head for the various features in the locality: station, cottages, viaduct, numerous culverts, cattle pens, stockaded turntable, and the like. 

 

I suspect I will plump for "ready to plant" buildings in the first instance to keep things moving, graduating to more bespoke structures later.  For instance, I have just obtained the drawings for the original station building with canopy from the National Archives, but will adapt the Hornby/Metcalfe equivalents when I get to that stage - which will be a while!

 

So, back to storage yard track laying this weekend and I will see how things progress.  Will also try to take more pictures and post updates, although I tend to get so engrossed I forget to document my progress.

 

Thanks again,
Steve

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  • sjp23480 changed the title to Garsdale Junction
11 hours ago, BR60103 said:

You may want to distinguish between the layout being complete and finished. Complete may be "trains running through representative scenery"; finished may be "every possible detail and refinement incorporated". (try not to confuse finished with done for.)

 


Oh, version 1.0 of Long Marton ended up done for, quite well.  I stripped the track in 1997, and set fire to the rest...after which, it was well done :)

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After a period of radio silence, I have reconfigured the boards and laid the storage roads.  Storage roads consist of 18 X 8' and 4 X 6' long.  There is over 40' of storage for motive power plus two turntables at each end of the storage rounds.

 

Most motors are fitted to points, either clipped directly underneath or surface mounted.  A few Conrad motors left to mount under the Roco slips.  

 

No wiring done yet, but I need to test all the track first.

 

More to follow.....

IMG_20210810_210831137.jpg

IMG_20210810_210823619.jpg

IMG_20210810_210810364.jpg

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On the scenic boards, the viaduct is taken shape courtesy of inspiration from @Physicsman.  Track is mounted on 4mm foam underlay for hard floors.  95% of the track is in position and secured with map pins.

 

Track is a mixture of Peco code 75 bullhead plain track, Peco code 75 Streamline points and Roco Geoline points (primarily the slips and adjacent points). 

 

Next job is to drill holes for point motors and cut the underlay to the track. Track will then need testing and then the wiring can start!

 

PLease excuse the detritus!

IMG_20210810_210943982.jpg

IMG_20210810_211047875.jpg

IMG_20210810_211103073.jpg

IMG_20210810_211152568.jpg

IMG_20210810_211144910.jpg

Edited by sjp23480
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Excellent - I'm glad my method has been put to good use somewhere else, Steve.

 

I assume you'll be using Slaters plastikard to cover the viaduct, not the insane DAS method employed by that nutter on Gill Head!!

 

If so, I'd recommend 7mm Dressed Stone - as I used for the KL/KL2 viaducts.

 

Jeff

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12 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

After a period of radio silence, I have reconfigured the boards and laid the storage roads.  Storage roads consist of 18 X 8' and 4 X 6' long.  There is over 40' of storage for motive power plus two turntables at each end of the storage rounds.

 

Most motors are fitted to points, either clipped directly underneath or surface mounted.  A few Conrad motors left to mount under the Roco slips.  

 

No wiring done yet, but I need to test all the track first.

 

More to follow.....

IMG_20210810_210831137.jpg

IMG_20210810_210823619.jpg

IMG_20210810_210810364.jpg

Now that’s what I call storage! Being of normal height though I doubt I’d reach the ones which are farthest away.

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11 hours ago, Physicsman said:

Excellent - I'm glad my method has been put to good use somewhere else, Steve.

 

I assume you'll be using Slaters plastikard to cover the viaduct, not the insane DAS method employed by that nutter on Gill Head!!

 

If so, I'd recommend 7mm Dressed Stone - as I used for the KL/KL2 viaducts.

 

Jeff

Jeff,

 

Thanks for all your inspiration - yes Slaters plastikard is my preferred choice.  Thanks for the recommendation.

 

Steve

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39 minutes ago, Dragonboy said:

Now that’s what I call storage! Being of normal height though I doubt I’d reach the ones which are farthest away.

Dragonboy,

 

The boards are 3' deep, and intended as storage roads rather than a fiddle yard.  Most trains will be fixed formations.

 

Any reaching across will be greatly aided by the steps which are in some of the pictures!

 

Steve

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