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Vivarail 230 catches fire


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That is the end of that then. Always had my doubts about this project and since it began there has been the announcement of the complete replacement of the Anglia fleet with a resultant surge of stock becoming available so I think the time has come to put this little technological dead end out of its misery and send the D Stock to the scrappy where it should have gone in the first place.

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  • RMweb Gold

That is the end of that then. Always had my doubts about this project and since it began there has been the announcement of the complete replacement of the Anglia fleet with a resultant surge of stock becoming available so I think the time has come to put this little technological dead end out of its misery and send the D Stock to the scrappy where it should have gone in the first place.

 

Possibly a bit too dismissive in tone but for all that I tend to agree with your sentiment - and would start by asking what kind of fire suppressant system was fitted, and if not why not?   I must admit to having always been slightly dubious about radically re-engineering trains of this age and while I don't dismiss the project completely out of hand this is inevitably a considerable setback which might bring it to a sad end.

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That is the end of that then. Always had my doubts about this project and since it began there has been the announcement of the complete replacement of the Anglia fleet with a resultant surge of stock becoming available so I think the time has come to put this little technological dead end out of its misery and send the D Stock to the scrappy where it should have gone in the first place.

 

A bit premature there?  We neither know the cause of the fire nor the extent of the damage (which isn't clear from the photo).

Edited by Tim H
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Why are there so many negative views about. Whilst fire is destructive and indiscriminate, it's not the first time this sort of thing had occurred and won't be the last.

It is for the people responsible for the test program to decide on what's next.

And history tells us that under similar circumstances (such as the Tram Power Limited Citytram for Blackpool fire), the underdog has usually disappeared without trace...

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The FORD is my motor
I shall not want, another. 
It maketh me to lie down in strange places.
It anointeth my head with oil.
It carries me beside the still waters. 
It empties my wallet continuously.
It leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake. Yeah, though I drive through the valley of the shadow of death, (M62 Eastbound, Manchester to Leeds) I will fear no evil; for You are with me; Your piston rods and Your gear change staff, they comfort me. 
You prepare a head gasket failure before me in the presence of my enemies.
My radiator boileth over. 
Surely rust and depreciation shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the FORD forever

Amen

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I dont think it should be sent for scrap just yet, as has been said it is a prototype and as such things could go wrong, information and knowledge gained in this project could go on to be used in other projects. There is talk of adding some sort of diesel generator on class 319s for running off the juice, which could get some ideas from this project.

 

Here's to hoping that it can be repaired and the project carry on.

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Do railway engines (and I mean engine, not locomotive) have equivalent fire prevention requirements to marine engines? Under SOLAS high pressure oil pipes have to be designed to contain leakage (in effect, double skinned) and hot surfaces have to be screened to prevent oil contacting them along with things like crankcase relief valves and oil mist detection (depending on engine size and crankcase volume). Just wondered if the same measures were applied to railway engines.

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Whatever we think of this project this must be a desperately disheartening event for those who have put time, effort and money into it. At least no-one was hurt.

 

PS Tim H could you possibly correct the spelling 'fire' in the Topic Title ? Thanks.

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  • RMweb Gold

Do railway engines (and I mean engine, not locomotive) have equivalent fire prevention requirements to marine engines? Under SOLAS high pressure oil pipes have to be designed to contain leakage (in effect, double skinned) and hot surfaces have to be screened to prevent oil contacting them along with things like crankcase relief valves and oil mist detection (depending on engine size and crankcase volume). Just wondered if the same measures were applied to railway engines.

 

Not quite to that standard - certainly on earlier designs.  But they do have fire suppression systems for internally mounted engines and presumably the same principle is applied to modern dmus.

 

But whatever exists or doesn't exist for fire suppression (and there should be hand extinguishers if nothing else) I find it slightly disconcerting that a 21st century train can, seemingly, catch fire, while running and the fact that it is only at a trial stage does nothing to alter that view.  We are, as a country and what's left of our railway industry, surely capable of engineering something which won't catch fire in normal operation (after all there are many years of experience in dmu design still available)?  According to Vivarail's own website 'the fire started in one of the engine modules' and they have said also that the cause cannot be established until it is possible to access the engine module.

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Plenty of other rail vehicles have had teething problems, that's what prototypes and testing are for. I remember being on a production Pacer which had a underfloor fire between Bolton & Manchester, while those in London will remember the bendi-buses that had a tendancy to ignite.

 

Obviously a disappointment for Vivarail, but I expect they will find out what happened and stop it happening again.

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And history tells us that under similar circumstances (such as the Tram Power Limited Citytram for Blackpool fire), the underdog has usually disappeared without trace...

 

You think so?

 

http://www.prestontrampower.co.uk/

 

Just got planning permission to build a test route too.  Just because Blackpool conned the DfT to upgrade their line to semi-light rail standards doesn't mean Lewis Lesley and his happy gang have gone away, self-combusting prototype or no.

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It'll be a fuel leak from something that wasn't quite tight enough or a split pipe resulting from first time out being vibrated or something hot laying against something containing fuel etc, etc ...........

 

It's what happens in trying new things - test aircraft have component failures, crash, etc, etc

 

DH117, the Comet, early Vulcans, type 45 frigates, numerous BR diesels, the production APT etc etc................

 

Bath-tub failure curves etc etc.................

 

Unfortunately in this twatter society, this type of thing now gets reported with the usual un-misinformed comments before anyone sensible gets a chance and it appears like a comedy of errors ..................

 

Anyway that's my tuppence worth - what do I know - I hope they ultimately succeed

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Guest 40-something

That is the end of that then. Always had my doubts about this project and since it began there has been the announcement of the complete replacement of the Anglia fleet with a resultant surge of stock becoming available so I think the time has come to put this little technological dead end out of its misery and send the D Stock to the scrappy where it should have gone in the first place.

How about waiting to see what the cause of the fire was, and the resulting damage rather than write the idea off completely?  Or do you have a better product ready for the rails?

 

People scream and shout about no new trains being designed and built in the UK but when a British company tries a new avenue they get slated for it, this attitude really p's me off.  Give them a chance, the unit is a prototype and is supposed to show problems in testing before being put into daily service.  Or would you rather the unit was filled with fare paying passengers young and old when it caught fire?

 

Why should the D stock be sent to the scrappy?  Because its of a certain age?  If the structure is good, then there is no need to scrap it.  The class 313 units on your avatar are older than the D stock, and still in service, should they be sent for scrap too?  Should a house be reduced to rubble because its 40 years old? There are plenty of loco's out there that are a damn sight older that are still giving sterling service, with original design power units.

 

If this problem cant be surmounted then the project will die, but if succeeds then a fleet of badly needed units will be available at a greatly reduced cost, and quicker, than completely new units

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