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Andrew's occasional forays in Italy


brushman47544
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On 31/05/2020 at 14:42, Settebello said:

The First two shots being taken at Milano Greco Pirelli station

Feel like a bad boy now. Used Greco-Pirelli for years and years to travel home from work and didn't do any photos...  

Now you have 3 guesses for which company I worked....  

Well what can I offer? Milano Centrale 2006 - well - this is not Italian but was a frequent guest over here. The Siemens Dispolok Re 484 in Cargo livery 

49966294663_58fee3cc66_c.jpgIMGP0073

Usmate-Carnate  ALle 582

49966798651_caecfffa7f_c.jpgDSC04985 

Tarvisio - Boscoverde D245 waiting for a client.

49967065132_7a38329968_c.jpgIMGP4111 

The client(s) are running into the station with panto already down

49966790446_4938ca39a5_c.jpgIMGP4123 

IMGP4111 

E 402-027 is already waiting to drive the train into Italy

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The 2 Austrian bulls are pushed back into the world of 15kV 16 2/3 Hz 49966285303_b3a3ee2a23_c.jpgIMGP4135 

Enough high jacking of this thread. I loved working in Italy

Edited by Vecchio
wrong photo...
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I took these pictures of Monte Antico station in Tuscany, just thought I'd share some of them here. This station would make a great modelling subject because it is run down and is at a junction, which would make for lots of operating potential. The steam train runs to Asciano through the beautiful Val D'Orcia.

It was terrible weather that day but it made No. 685.089 and its Centoporte coaches look really atmospheric. 30248739-906E-4877-8F41-C6B99834743A.jpeg.b974df540b6996561be23b52136995c1.jpeg998F545A-400D-4365-AFFC-F74F95F24221.jpeg.1097ecc9d284575f78edaea5c67936d3.jpeg

9A4B6E5C-2BC5-4FFE-991B-88C567EFDE40.jpeg

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Edited by Stan68
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Staying with the “Vintage trains” theme, but this time electric and I’ll admit my all-time favourite locomotive -  the venerable E 636, a  Bo-Bo-Bo design, so typical of the FS….A few pictures from a special working in Sicily ( quite prolific in terms of tourist trains of late ), organised by Treno Doc.

The trip was from Palermo to Cefalu and return on the Palermo Messina main line, in the north of the Island.IMG_0012.JPG.74522ead6354696309a6feffa4fa9541.JPG

 E 636 128 at Deposito Palermo ready to join the train at Palermo CentraleIMG_0015.JPG.9032935bb4fef6f776f5197561d3e708.JPG

Four beautifully restored Centoporte carriages....

IMG_0018.JPG.62afa6c833fe9bfab0f111ae66f20f9a.JPG

Ready to Depart Palermo.IMG_0023.JPG.8bb4be9c19629bcc4609728e28a2d273.JPG

The proud crew pose for a souvenir photo at Cefalu prior to turning the loco around 206102400_TrenifromNovegro032.jpg.bfe1d7e9e1519dbb24c700e8ab6c348a.jpg

Ready for the rteurn leg to Palermo.....

 

 

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What with COVID, it been a while since I’ve been in Italy. Finally managed to go in July and take some photos.

 

Regional trains between Roma - Ancona and Perugia and Foligno - Firenze, plus some local services around Foligno and Terontola have been worked for years with a MVDC driving trailer “pilota”, but now that the Direttissima between Arezzo and Firenze is fitted with ERTMS, the pilota has been replaced by a standard MVDC coach and top-and-tail E.464 locos. As more E.464 are fitted with ERTMS, the remaining driving trailers will be transferred away or withdrawn as they will not be converted. Ancona depot’s allocation has changed - low numbered locos (I saw none lower than E.464.445) have been replaced as they too are not suitable for conversion.
 

Below is a short rake headed by E.464 521 stabled at Foligno between duties.

1BE6979E-7DF9-47D4-83D0-BB03C2464705.jpeg.1e9b3261606165934858d885626f3a2a.jpeg

 


Diesel shunters are still used to move trains between the station and stabling sidings, even though they are electrified. This is apparently to avoid drivers hours being used up for shunting. Below is regular D.245 6074 after bringing E.464.501 and it’s train from the sidings.

DEDFB78F-1A6A-4D58-BB36-13C8E97E197C.jpeg.515893a88cd8ddc184d494229adfc7fc.jpeg

More to follow, but I will look at reducing the file size first so I can post more photos at a time.

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Foligno has extensive stabling sidings alongside the station previously associated with the long-closed loco depot. They are now used for the storage of withdrawn and stored locos and rolling stock. in the past, I've seen rows of withdrawn E444R locos, but currently they are well filled with stock belonging to Fondazione FS. This includes the only surviving E402 prototype (005?), around half a dozen E656 recently withdrawn from service in Sicily and to be overhauled for preserved stock moves, a luggage van, two D341 locos from FCU and steam loco 940.044. Also present was overhauled E646.196, also formerly in the Fondazione fleet in Sicily, and prototype E404.000.

 

1514392064_210727FolignoE402Aprototypestored.jpg.504419fc694517ea96638fc0cf19deef.jpg

 

 

67261362_210727FolignoE656stored.jpg.44396625dd3525586ac40757ed75885e.jpg

 

310527571_210803FolignoE646.196ex-works.jpg.96aecf6e228ba4f251028a7ca1dcf17e.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

743728610_210803FolignoSteam940.044stored.jpg.8f99e6198ab06bb9522c06ca2986750b.jpg

 

241733483_210803FolignoD3411066storedcopy.jpg.8f5ff2b5c763efa4cf456ead572d8b6a.jpg

 

1995669280_210803FolignoE656030storedcopy.jpg.a758aba4ab7068a66cbd0da25e2e02d8.jpg

 

Edited by brushman47544
Found a way to upload vertically!!!
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Foligno works is responsible for overhauling many of the FS electric fleet. The E.464 locos are currently being overhauled for the DTR (Regional) fleet, emerging in the predominantly silver and blue livery, for Intercity trains top-and-tail in Sicily and night trains on the mainland, in IntercitySun livery, and in the similar Frecciabiana livery also for Sicily. Overhauled locos are in most cases given test runs between Foligno and Campello and include the E655/E656 rescue loco stabled at Foligno in case of failure.

 

Two E464 locos emerged within a few days, E464.419 in DTR livery and E464.361, very surprisingly, in the now defunct XMPR livery. Neither had the depot allocation showing so I can't guess why 361 was painted as it was, although it is in the same batch as allocated to Sicily for long haul passenger trains.

 

The first photo was rushed as I arrived just as the locos emerged from the works to be stabled out of sight awaiting the test run. E655.502 is the rescue loco in case of failure.

192070218_210805FolignoD245.377E655.502E464.361test.jpg.ae5e6dacc8bd22cfc75db94042617cf7.jpg

 

1145163372_210805FolignoE464.361ex-worksaftertestrun.jpg.94857d3b4fd7757d152e0ef9f858eeeb.jpg

 

834390044_210805FolignoE464.361close-upnumber.jpg.50d57dbd66a6698264f11220461261b1.jpg

 

359008422_210811FolignoE464.419ex-worksfortestrun.jpg.ae1f3f3373f70b635290f4372deb91da.jpg

 

2124637749_210808FolignoE464.419ex-works.jpg.4c1329c494d7a5d696336a3ec76434b9.jpg

 

778672925_210811FolignoE464.419cabclose-upcopy.jpg.82aa04e059a8dad50588d51ca7be8b1a.jpg

 

More to follow.

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There are also Intercity services, under the brand Intercity Sun, using the line from Orte to Falconara. For the 2020 - 2021 timetable, one of the train pairs between Roma and Trieste has been diverted to run this way, presumably to free up paths on the Direttissima. As with the Roma - Ancona and Roma - Perugia IC trains, they are formed of an E401 and a driving trailer.

 

E.401.022

1962654805_210808ValtopinaE401.022IC541AnconatoRomaTermini.jpg.15585141ae378bea63b8d613d252e981.jpg

 

E401.024

1155785172_2108012FolignoE401.024IC534RomaTerminitoAncona.jpg.514894efc647ca0a7cc9d655ed986664.jpg

 

1722513104_2108012FolignoDrivingtraileronrearIC534withE401_024.jpg.38f5b391cb3ae9f31b48d37abd5210a1.jpg

 

The Intercity Sun livery is being updated, with the grey band as seen on the driving trailer being added to the standard coaches as well. At least the livery will look less like a copy of DB's.

 

There are several freights through Foligno, including international services carrying products to and from the steelworks in Terni. Most are worked by single or double headed E652 locos but I've seen, but not managed to photograph E405 locos as well. Below is E652.154 on closed wagons on a service that starts in Foligno.

195311407_210812FolignoE652.154freightstabled.jpg.11ab63f98c19bf0757ead92080662b00.jpg

 

Finally, its now unusual to see E656 locos working, but E656.425 appeared in Foligno on 12 August, presumably from Ancona, with an MVDC driving trailer and three MVDE coaches, all in XMPR livery and previously refurbished, which were stabled in the sidings. E656.425 must have remained at Foligno because it was used as the rescue loco accompanying Fondazione FS's E444R.046 on its test run to Spoleto earlier this week.

267337350_210812FolignoMVDCpilotaarrivingecs.jpg.10957b75875fbe07720f0d5fb165197e.jpg

 

622417130_210812FolignoE656.425stablingMVDEecswithE655_502.jpg.d91cd260a08b89406c8e4c7140c9b09b.jpg

 

That's about it for the latest visit. Hope the photos are of interest.

Edited by brushman47544
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On 24/08/2021 at 20:03, brushman47544 said:

Below is a short rake headed by E.464 521 stabled at Foligno between duties.

1BE6979E-7DF9-47D4-83D0-BB03C2464705.jpeg.1e9b3261606165934858d885626f3a2a.jpeg


I’ve just noticed that the leading MVDC coach has a bicycle symbol at the left hand end. This indicates that the coach has been converted to carry a large number of bicycles by the removal of seats and replacement with straps and rails. Trenitalia is rolling this out across a large number of regional services.

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  • 3 months later...

Some great photographs thank you for sharing them here.

 

Quite ironic but useful as I am currently experimenting with a small Italian themed layout / diorama.

 

IMG_5053.jpg.6276dd85defcef6484d7d8d2ef3a5684.jpg

 

IMG_5062.jpeg.a2b29bca7ebd6fa4c0e6be012651e9b6.jpeg

 

IMG_5036.jpeg.9a19f147dbe2d18ca6026b9cf7a9db33.jpeg

 

 

IMG_5064.jpeg.b885c0fa03275a7195cc000115c12111.jpeg

 

G

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bgman said:

Some great photographs thank you for sharing them here.

 

Quite ironic but useful as I am currently experimenting with a small Italian themed layout / diorama.

 

IMG_5053.jpg.6276dd85defcef6484d7d8d2ef3a5684.jpg

 

IMG_5062.jpeg.a2b29bca7ebd6fa4c0e6be012651e9b6.jpeg

 

IMG_5036.jpeg.9a19f147dbe2d18ca6026b9cf7a9db33.jpeg

 

 

IMG_5064.jpeg.b885c0fa03275a7195cc000115c12111.jpeg

 

G

 

 

Very nice! Really liking the buildings!

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May I ask if anyone knows why the exhaust smoke from the steam loco's always appears to be very dense and black ?

 

It always seems to be the case on virtually all the videos of Italian loco's I have watched and wonder what type or where the coal is sourced to fire them.

 

Apologies for the silly question.

 

G

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12 minutes ago, bgman said:

May I ask if anyone knows why the exhaust smoke from the steam loco's always appears to be very dense and black ?

 

It always seems to be the case on virtually all the videos of Italian loco's I have watched and wonder what type or where the coal is sourced to fire them.

 

Apologies for the silly question.

 

G

Not at all a silly question. Are they coal-fired, or do they run on heavy fuel oil to reduce the risk of lineside fires?

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13 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Not at all a silly question. Are they coal-fired, or do they run on heavy fuel oil to reduce the risk of lineside fires?

They are coal fired, but I don't know where it's imported from. They go for the simple approach of not running steam during the summer to prevent lineside fires. Also the trains are usually a lot lighter in weight than you'd see in other countries. A five coach set of Centoporte stock carries 400 people, the same as a dozen Mk 1s, but less than half the weight. 

 

Italy didn't build any new steam locos after about 1929, so other than Caprotti and Crosti conversions, they're pretty undeveloped/unrefined compared to other European countries. Coal combustion doesn't look to be optimal on them though! 

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11 minutes ago, 5944 said:

They are coal fired, but I don't know where it's imported from. They go for the simple approach of not running steam during the summer to prevent lineside fires. Also the trains are usually a lot lighter in weight than you'd see in other countries. A five coach set of Centoporte stock carries 400 people, the same as a dozen Mk 1s, but less than half the weight. 

 

Italy didn't build any new steam locos after about 1929, so other than Caprotti and Crosti conversions, they're pretty undeveloped/unrefined compared to other European countries. Coal combustion doesn't look to be optimal on them though! 

Italy had one of the worst railway accidents ever, when a goods train stalled on an incline in a tunnel:-

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/train-passengers-suffocate

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15 hours ago, bgman said:

May I ask if anyone knows why the exhaust smoke from the steam loco's always appears to be very dense and black ?

 

It always seems to be the case on virtually all the videos of Italian loco's I have watched and wonder what type or where the coal is sourced to fire them.

 

Apologies for the silly question.

 

G

 

Not a silly question in the slightest. I realised that about Italian steam services as well. As to the coal, I would hazard a guess that it came from Sardegna, as there is a massive coal mine there and one that closed recently in Carbonia (that name suggest coal because in italian coal is carbone) was used for steam coal when the locos were in mainstream use, up until the 70s. The Italian government haven't put in a rule about black smoke as of yet, but in Britain a law was passed in 2009 that aimed to prevent black smoke.

 

Stan

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On 11/05/2020 at 19:16, Revolution Ben said:

Hi all,

 

Only just come across this thread but a huge fan of Italian railways - not surprising really as my father is from Sicily.

 

Some pics from my most recent visit to see my family in Taormina.  The station there is very grand, with castellations and magnificent marble interior, as befits what was once one of the Mediterranean’s premier resorts, with a rich English history too.

 

F3B537C6-13A0-4CD7-A95D-E1C5EA957E5B.jpeg.b2022a0aaa8e7477f4a7021c36b1f1ab.jpeg

 

Like the poster above, I am very much looking forward to Arnold’s forthcoming E656, through I won’t be going for the XMPR livery...

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Hi Ben some pictures of a place you may well recognise

 and one from further down the coast.

2006.6.14 001.jpg

2006.6.14 002.jpg

2006.6.14 005.jpg

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On 07/12/2021 at 16:28, bgman said:

May I ask if anyone knows why the exhaust smoke from the steam loco's always appears to be very dense and black ?

 

It always seems to be the case on virtually all the videos of Italian loco's I have watched and wonder what type or where the coal is sourced to fire them.

 

Apologies for the silly question.

 

G

I don't think it's a silly question - we can all learn by asking questions.  The issue of black smoke from steam locos is one that is going to be increasingly under the spotlight.  Certain coals will produce more than others but adjusting one's firing technique to suit the coal being used can reduce the problem.  In the photo above it appears to me that the fireman has put on a heavy round of coal shortly before the driver has shut off for the station slow/stop.  As the regulator was closed the fire would be starved of air and combustion would be incomplete releasing black smoke.  Possibly the slow/stop was unexpected or there was poor communication between the driver and an inexperienced fireman.  I was on a FS steam hauled special from Lecco to Milano via Como in June 2019.  The photo below shows the 740 running into Lecco with a 'clean' chimney.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

DSC_0630a.JPG

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Gentlemen,

 

Your replies to my question are very much appreciated, thank you.

 

Saluti festosi ! 

 

 

 

 

G

Edited by bgman
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