Creating Cameo Layouts

[NHY 581]

Simon,

 

Thank you for taking the time to share a few of your thoughts. One of the joys of RMweb is that it brings us mere mortals into contact, albeit from a distance, with people like yourself who, through your work, add greatly to the enjoyment this hobby brings us.

 

Thank you.

 

Wild Swan have, over the years, produced some seminal titles, many of which are the work of Mr Rice. 'Cameo' will, I am quite sure, become one of these.

 

Your update regarding Iain's health is most welcome and I am sure we all offer him our best wishes and hope that the future is not as tricky as it first appeared. I for one look forward to his further articles/publications for the subject of layouts, especially of the Cameo variety.

 

I also look forward to details of any competition which I am sure will generate great interest.

 

Price is relative. In this day and age we pay around £4-£5 for a monthly comic. Based on that Cameo is about right and I wouldn't dwell on it any further. I for one feel that I have value for money from a book which I will refer to over many years.

 

Please keep up the good work and I look forward to popping in when at Larkrail this year.

 

Rob.

[PaulRhB]

 

... (of course if he turns up to Railex in a new Aston Martin I may have to revise that opinion).

 

 

 

Do they come in S&D blue?

[ixionmodels]

i live in Newcastle NSW (Australia) and purchased my copy from the Titfield Thunderbolt last month. With international postage from the U.K. it was very pricey and I for one am thrilled by the value. As a previous poster noted, anything that give some pleasure in the reading and is a useful reference for years is a joy.

 

I am so often disappointed by the constant whinging of modellers at the cost of things, including the gent who posted on this thread that when he compared the price to the number of pages he decided it was poor value and not for him. Without, it seems, reading any of the reviews or waiting for those who had seen it to give informed opinions on its value, which is very different to its cost! (Has he never bought a CD or LP? A few cents (pence) worth of plastic and printed paper - what a ripoff; and yet it can be a joy for years.)

 

I first encountered Iain Rice's modelling and writing in his MRJ 'Woolverstone' article, and have been a fan ever since. Like a previous poster noted, this book has been on my chair arm, and by my bed, since it arrived. It has pointed me to a number of layouts I've never heard of, and researching them on the web has made it worth the price all by themselves. I love the idea of cameo layouts, of which there are almost none in Australia - perhaps the Wide Brown Land produces an expansive mindset not conducive to such little slices of the world. But, as a co-owner of Ixion Models, I can't use the excuse that some locos are expensive, when I can get them for free...

 

I attended Railex in Aylesbury in 2014 with my friend and business partner Chris Klein, and met some of my modelling heroes; Gordon and Maggie Gravett and Chris Nevard foremost among them. Chris was there with his tiny 4mm layout 'Ironstone'; I was completely captivated and delighted by his method of refilling his wagons via the overhead hopper. Having, he said, tried all sorts of automatic 'ironstone' dispensers to ensure the wagons were not overfilled. In the end, he just picked up full wagons from the fiddleyard and tipped the contents via the hopper into the empty wagon below. Brilliant!

 

I highly recommend the book, and Titfield's service. It's just a Good Read. Thanks Iain and Wild Swan; keep them coming, if you can.

Lindsay O'Reilly.

[NHY 581]

Well said, Lindsay.

 

Books like this provide entertainment and provoke thought for years after purchase.

 

As I may have said before, I am hooked on the concept of a cameo layout. My ideal is a big slice of the northern end of the Somerset and Dorset line or part of the ex-L&SWR main line in Devon. However, current space constraints preclude that.

 

A little over twelve months ago I became thoroughly frustrated with a Southern terminus I was building. Progress was slow and based on baseboards which were not really fit for purpose. Not happy.

 

I was reading a few threads on here and found Juniper Hill, a lovely slice of an ironstone railway in a small space. The penny dropped. I found an old shelf in the attic and the rest is history. I now have a 'cameo' based on a few sidings in Somerset, a bucolic backwater of the dear old S&D. As a consequence, I have done more modelling, learnt more new techniques and made a lot of friends over the last twelve months. Iam now planning the next layout.

 

The master plan will have to wait but for now the smaller layouts keep me modelling. Its achievable and books like Ian show us the way.

 

Rob.

[chesterfield]

i live in Newcastle NSW (Australia) and purchased my copy from the Titfield Thunderbolt last month. With international postage from the U.K. it was very pricey and I for one am thrilled by the value. As a previous poster noted, anything that give some pleasure in the reading and is a useful reference for years is a joy.

I am so often disappointed by the constant whinging of modellers at the cost of things, including the gent who posted on this thread that when he compared the price to the number of pages he decided it was poor value and not for him. Without, it seems, reading any of the reviews or waiting for those who had seen it to give informed opinions on its value, which is very different to its cost! (Has he never bought a CD or LP? A few cents (pence) worth of plastic and printed paper - what a ripoff; and yet it can be a joy for years.)

I first encountered Iain Rice's modelling and writing in his MRJ 'Woolverstone' article, and have been a fan ever since. Like a previous poster noted, this book has been on my chair arm, and by my bed, since it arrived. It has pointed me to a number of layouts I've never heard of, and researching them on the web has made it worth the price all by themselves. I love the idea of cameo layouts, of which there are almost none in Australia - perhaps the Wide Brown Land produces an expansive mindset not conducive to such little slices of the world. But, as a co-owner of Ixion Models, I can't use the excuse that some locos are expensive, when I can get them for free...

I attended Railex in Aylesbury in 2014 with my friend and business partner Chris Klein, and met some of my modelling heroes; Gordon and Maggie Gravett and Chris Nevard foremost among them. Chris was there with his tiny 4mm layout 'Ironstone'; I was completely captivated and delighted by his method of refilling his wagons via the overhead hopper. Having, he said, tried all sorts of automatic 'ironstone' dispensers to ensure the wagons were not overfilled. In the end, he just picked up full wagons from the fiddleyard and tipped the contents via the hopper into the empty wagon below. Brilliant!

I highly recommend the book, and Titfield's service. It's just a Good Read. Thanks Iain and Wild Swan; keep them coming, if you can.

Lindsay O'Reilly.

[chesterfield]

Based on the comments in this thread , I too acquired a copy , as well as the realistic operation book also mentioned in another thread in Books.

Of the two, the Rice book is really worthwhile. However it was the other thread which caused me to go to my Forest of Dean books and contour map and consider Staple Edge for a 4mm scale model.The O gauge version is excellent (se theother thread's review)

[Robin2]

I only found this Thread today. I had not expected RMWeb to be so open about another publisher's material. Full marks to RMWeb.

 

I had my eye on a copy of Iain's book from when I first heard of it. I was a little apprehensive as I have a few of his other books. But when I bought it (at Stafford model railway show) I was absolutely delighted - there were all the old familiar pictures and references. This is not intended to be sarcastic - I find I am now at an age where I get a lot of pleasure from familiar stuff.

 

Just a pity that I don't really have space for a box-style cameo layout.

 

...R

[NHY 581]

Having read the introduction to the Cameo Layout Competition in MRJ 254 and the update on the Titfield Thunderbolt website, I'm looking forward to the entry forms becoming available.

 

 

As it appears the catalyst for this competition appears to be the writings of Iain Rice, in particular the 'Creating Cameo Layouts' book, could this thread become the competition thread?

 

 

Rob.

[Not Jeremy]

Having read the introduction to the Cameo Layout Competition in MRJ 254 and the update on the Titfield Thunderbolt website, I'm looking forward to the entry forms becoming available.

 

 

As it appears the catalyst for this competition appears to be the writings of Iain Rice, in particular the 'Creating Cameo Layouts' book, could this thread become the competition thread?

 

 

Rob.

 

Hi Rob (and all other interested parties)

 

Iain and I have just now finalised "form arrangements", rest assured they are simple, uncomplicated and tolerant of changes to ideas etc as projects progress(!)

 

We are considering the "online options" and would both be delighted to see a presence on RMweb. This would however probably be in addition to whatever we set up and in any case I think we ought to clear it with Andy and Warners before going too much further.

 

I apologise for the details still not being on the website, we have finalised the form but are just waiting on a few other arrangements being sorted out before putting it all in place.

 

Thanks to everyone for their interest, I think I am right in saying that both this book and Authentic operation will receive reviews in the next issue of BRM.

 

Simon

Edited April 14, 2017 by Not Jeremy

[NHY 581]

Hi Rob (and all other interested parties)

 

Iain and I have just now finalised "form arrangements", rest assured they are simple, uncomplicated and tolerant of changes to ideas etc as projects progress(!)

 

We are considering the "online options" and would both be delighted to see a presence on RMweb. This would however probably be in addition to whatever we set up and in any case I think we ought to clear it with Andy and Warners before going too much further.

 

I apologise for the details still not being on the website, we have finalised the form but are just waiting on a few other arrangements being sorted out before putting it all in place.

 

Thanks to everyone for their interest, I think I am right in saying that both this book and Authentic operation will receive reviews in the next issue of BRM.

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

Thanks for the reply. All relevant points but please don't apologise there's plenty of time and you are running a business after all.

 

This has already generated a significant amount of interest and such a competition can only be beneficial. As it happens, many who enter the comp will start threads on RMweb anyway.

 

I agree with your thoughts in MRJ regarding the starting of a movement specifically for this type of project, though I can think of many layouts that slip into this genre already.

 

Sticking with MRJ, your observations regarding such projects being achievable are spot on. I managed to build a small layout in 12 months, inspired by the cameo concept with more complex projects failing in the past. In turn I once again became an active and satisfied modeller. My armchair is now feeling somewhat neglected after years of occupation........

 

My copy of CCL is already well thumbed ( with your post card as an ever shifting book mark!) and will, I'm sure, remain so for many years to come.

 

Splendid.

 

Rob.

[The Fatadder]

Loving the idea of the competition, which has now pushed me online to Amazon to order a copy (nice to know that there are real bookshops behind the Amazon sales there.) Looking forward to its arrival.

 

  I had been thinking about putting together a small project to give me something to run my 1980s china clay stock on for a while.  With the added benefit of allowing the testing of a few more techniques before implementing them on Brent.  Look forward to seeing the final rules.

[Robin2]

I appreciate there will have to be rules for the competition and some basis for picking the winners.

 

May I suggest that some means is found to make details of all the entries public after the adjudication is finished. Perhaps a special MRJ publication? Or, maybe more realistically, on a web site somewhere.

 

It would be awful to think that the non-winners are classified as "losers" with their achievements visible to nobody but themselves.

 

...R

Edited April 15, 2017 by Robin2

[Captain Kernow]

 

It would be awful to think that the non-winners are classified as "losers" with their achievements visible to nobody but themselves.

 

It's not so bad, really.

[john flann]

Three questions,

 

1. are "cameos" working layouts or static displays?

 

2. if static when does it become a diorama?

 

2. beyond what length does a cameo become something else?

[LBRJ]

Three questions,

 

1. are "cameos" working layouts or static displays?

 

2. if static when does it become a diorama?

 

2. beyond what length does a cameo become something else?

Working!

 

The cameo idea is that the whole unit of layout, backscene, front framing etc is in one piece - so really the maximum size is that which you feel you can move about with ease.

You are probably starting to reach a limit at about 7 foot in length and a yard or so in depth.

Edited April 15, 2017 by LBRJ

[NHY 581]

I appreciate there will have to be rules for the competition and some basis for picking the winners.

 

May I suggest that some means is found to make details of all the entries public after the adjudication is finished. Perhaps a special MRJ publication? Or, maybe more realistically, on a web site somewhere.

 

It would be awful to think that the non-winners are classified as "losers" with their achievements visible to nobody but themselves.

 

...R

 

There are no losers in this competition. Everyone who makes the effort to enter wins in that we all benefit from a working layout at the end of it.

 

Win win.

 

Rob.

[NHY 581]

Three questions,

 

1. are "cameos" working layouts or static displays?

 

2. if static when does it become a diorama?

 

2. beyond what length does a cameo become something else?

Hi, John,

 

As per LB's answer working.......non working is a diorama. In MRJ 254 Iain states 1-2 metres max and I am inclined to agree. Hintock Quay was one of the layouts that inspired me to build Sheep Lane, a layout that I could set up on the dining table and play trains. That's what its all about.

 

It's a self contained snapshot of a bigger picture which draws the viewer into the scene.

 

 

Rob

[john flann]

Thanks LBRJ and Rob, that makes sense.

 

And Rob, it's pleasing to know HTQ got you going. And interestingly enough I'm in the process of incorporating it  into the Port Bredy extension. Even so it will still be possible to operate  as a separate entity. But not on the dining room table.

[Robin2]

There are no losers in this competition. Everyone who makes the effort to enter wins in that we all benefit from a working layout at the end of it.

 

Does this mean that you do not support my suggestion to publish information about every entry?

 

...R

[Captain Kernow]

Does this mean that you do not support my suggestion to publish information about every entry?

 

...R

I suspect that Simon will have this in hand.

[NHY 581]

Does this mean that you do not support my suggestion to publish information about every entry?

 

...R

Er.....I meant that there are no losers in this competition. Everyone who makes the effort to enter wins in that we all benefit from a working layout at the end of it.

 

I'm afraid that's as far as I've got.......oh and starting on my layout. Anything else is down to others higher up the cameo food chain.

 

I'm just the builder.

 

Rob.

[Not Jeremy]

I appreciate there will have to be rules for the competition and some basis for picking the winners.

 

May I suggest that some means is found to make details of all the entries public after the adjudication is finished. Perhaps a special MRJ publication? Or, maybe more realistically, on a web site somewhere.

 

It would be awful to think that the non-winners are classified as "losers" with their achievements visible to nobody but themselves.

 

...R

Robin

 

I can see no reason why we should not do this, I wouldn't rule out an MRJ listing but can certainly compile an online "roll of honour".

 

You raise a very important point though, both Iain and I are keen that everyone who participates feels properly "included" and that participation should be enjoyable for all.

 

Although it is a competition, we imagine it as a process where people are sharing and comparing ideas as they go along and whilst there will (hopefully!) be a "winner" and shortlist, nobody should come out of the process feeling that they have in any way "lost".

 

I found the book quite inspiring and am thinking about how I might create my own "Cameo" layout, (I'm excluded from the competition by the way) and what we both hope for the whole process is that it provides enjoyment and maybe gets some of many ideas that we all have going around our heads translated into actual "playable with" model railways.

 

This "playable with" last bit is definitely part of what Iain has in mind, a lot of my ideas for example veer off into diorama territory, and whilst presentation is key, he wants to see some operation built into entries. If you read his book you'll get a good feel for what it's all about.

 

I got to know the late Carl Arendt pretty well via emails etc and would be really pleased if this competition achieved just a small part of his great "Micro Layout" success in getting people actually modelling, and also sharing ideas and enjoyment along the way.

 

Details of "online arrangements" will be sorted out shortly and I'm very pleased to say that Andy has been in touch with me and generously given the green light to there being a proper presence for the competition on RMweb.

 

Simon

 

(Edited for spelling mistakes)

Edited April 16, 2017 by Not Jeremy

[NHY 581]

Bloody good show !!

[Robin2]

I can see no reason why we should not do this, I wouldn't rule out an MRJ listing but can certainly compile an online "roll of honour".

 

You raise a very important point though, both Iain and I are keen that everyone who participates feels properly "included" and that participation should be enjoyable for all.

 

Although it is a competition, we imagine it as a process where people are sharing and comparing ideas as they go along and whilst there will (hopefully!) be a "winner" and shortlist, nobody should come out of the process feeling that they have in any way "lost".

Thank you Simon.

 

I guess my concern is that the people who can't work to the exceptional standards usually shown in MRJ ought to get some publicity for their entries even when they have not won a prize. In many ways the fact that they made the effort might be very effective in drawing newbies into the fold.

 

And because a cameo comprises several different techniques even the winners might learn something from some aspects (for example cabinet-making or lighting or backdrop-painting) in some of the non-winning entries.

 

...R

[Zero Gravitas]

The com petetion was a subject of discussion amongst the volunteers at Pendon the other week (slightly ironically, given the the Vale Scene is about as far from a cameo as it is possible to get...).

 

It was wondered whether there should be a shortlist of perhaps 5 cameos, all of which would be invited to Railex, and the winner chosen and announced there, perhaps with some input from a vote by the exhibition attendees. This way, there would be more of a display of the variety of cameos, rather than just one.

 

There are probably some obstacles we didn't consider, and please feel free to ignore the suggestion, but I thought it was worth throwing into the mix.