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Hello all

 

I'm currently modeling AL5/Class 85 in Blender 3D, and would like to know some (very many) things:

 

What side did the cabin doors open?

 

Was the rooftop pantograph/electric equipment the same among all 5 AL trials?

 

I know half the bodyside vents were lost, but was one of the panto's removed moving into the BR Blue era?

 

Are there any detailed images showing the rooftop electric equipment? (I know it's a long stretch, and apologies, but I can't find any online)

 

Thanks

 

Ron

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The book "The Power of the AC Electrics" has detail shots and line drawings of the roof equipment. (ISBN 10: 086093246X) It's possible that the Modern Locomotives Illustrated issue 191 also had the info you are looking for.

 

I believe you are correct about when the 2nd pantograph was removed.

 

Chris H

Edited by ChrisH-UK
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Hello all

 

I'm currently modeling AL5/Class 85 in Blender 3D, and would like to know some (very many) things:

 

What side did the cabin doors open?

 

Was the rooftop pantograph/electric equipment the same among all 5 AL trials?

 

I know half the bodyside vents were lost, but was one of the panto's removed moving into the BR Blue era?

 

Are there any detailed images showing the rooftop electric equipment? (I know it's a long stretch, and apologies, but I can't find any online)

 

Thanks

 

Ron

Door handles were on the equipment (i.e. inner) sides.

 

The Bachmann models show the progression with pantographs. Firstly, with 2 patnographs, all early blue locos iand most of those with small yellow panels. From 1966, 1 with no air tanks on pre_tops rail blue and some early bsyp locos, and finally 1 panto with air tanks on blue locos from 1972, some pre-tops but mostly post-tops.

 

I don't know what you mean about vents. The vents were on the equipment side, the other bodyside had a corridor with windows. This is common to all the early AC loco types.

 

Edit: I found a good middle period view of early AC rooves. The class 85 is at the bottom, though some commenters suggest it is a class 81 - I don't think there is much different in the roof layout howover.

 

5492596010_5c2b1a95a4_o.jpgNew Street - looking down by Auchlander, on Flickr

Edited by stovepipe
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Door handles were on the equipment (i.e. inner) sides.

 

The Bachmann models show the progression with pantographs. Firstly, with 2 patnographs, all early blue locos iand most of those with small yellow panels. From 1966, 1 with no air tanks on pre_tops rail blue and some early bsyp locos, and finally 1 panto with air tanks on blue locos from 1972, some pre-tops but mostly post-tops.

 

I don't know what you mean about vents. The vents were on the equipment side, the other bodyside had a corridor with windows. This is common to all the early AC loco types.

 

Edit: I found a good middle period view of early AC rooves. The class 85 is at the bottom, though some commenters suggest it is a class 81 - I don't think there is much different in the roof layout howover.

 

(Picture removed) New Street - looking down by Auchlander, on Flickr

 

Hi Chris and Stovepipe:

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have no idea where to acquire a copy of the latter's issue 191, but the book I could get.

 

Stovepipe, thanks for the picture, although scouring Flickr's large rail community I encountered many good shots, including the best one you've attached, that show the angles of the equipment well. What were those round spring-esque things called? Is there any general terminology used for the pantograph parts? 

 

Another question, are you the one that makes the e-specs for Trainz? I've seen your name somewhere before.

 

Regards,

Ron

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modern locomotives illustrated have a website - pretty sure they'll have contact details there for back issues. or you can find them on stalls at exhibitions - DC Kits often have a selection of recent issues for example

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Hi Chris and Stovepipe:

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have no idea where to acquire a copy of the latter's issue 191, but the book I could get.

 

Stovepipe, thanks for the picture, although scouring Flickr's large rail community I encountered many good shots, including the best one you've attached, that show the angles of the equipment well. What were those round spring-esque things called? Is there any general terminology used for the pantograph parts? 

 

Another question, are you the one that makes the e-specs for Trainz? I've seen your name somewhere before.

 

Regards,

Ron

 

Yes that's me, thought I'd try and help a fellow trainzer out. Let me know if you need an espec, though I'm a bit out of the loop with the latest incarnation.

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modern locomotives illustrated have a website - pretty sure they'll have contact details there for back issues. or you can find them on stalls at exhibitions - DC Kits often have a selection of recent issues for example

 

Hi Gordon

 

Thanks for that, looks to be a very simple, cheap, feasible purchase, will definitely have a look.

 

Ron

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On 08/01/2017 at 19:18, stovepipe said:

Yes that's me, thought I'd try and help a fellow trainzer out. Let me know if you need an espec, though I'm a bit out of the loop with the latest incarnation.

 

Definitely appreciate the offer, but I suppose the existing one suffices. Made some good progress on the AL5, so keep your DLS eyes peeled for a future release. :)

 

And, the pantograph was apparently of Stone Faiveley design, was this design unanimous, i.e. the exact same shape, size, etc. with the exact same corresponding wires? I'm about to model off of a photo of a Stone Faiveley pantograph, from another random locomotive. 

 

Ron

Edited by Evertrainz
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Modern Locomotives Illustrated is published by Key publishing. Unfortuately it shows as out of stock on their website. DC Kits might still have some as mentioned above at model railway shows.

 

Alternatively, you might find a copy of it on eBay, though there are also a few sellers on there selling DVDs with digital copies of various magazines.

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Gill Sans was the typeface widely used on the railways up to 1965. I believe the numerals were just cut out versions of the standard ones.

I'm aware that Gill Sans was used for lettering on wagons, numbers, station totems, etc., but the old pre-TOPS 'D' numbers and 'E' numbers on diesel and electrics seem to use something completely of their own.

 

Gill Sans has a numeral '3' with a rounded top segment, while the pre-TOPS electrics have a '3' with a flat top. I think this may be a special font of BR itself, anyway.

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I'm aware that Gill Sans was used for lettering on wagons, numbers, station totems, etc., but the old pre-TOPS 'D' numbers and 'E' numbers on diesel and electrics seem to use something completely of their own.

Gill Sans has a numeral '3' with a rounded top segment, while the pre-TOPS electrics have a '3' with a flat top. I think this may be a special font of BR itself, anyway.

Yes i see what you mean. The 3 looks like Frank Pick's London underground typeface - perhaps it was related to that?

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i think the normal 'parked' position was both wipers in the centre.

using that, i'd assume the wipers moved in/outward together - but if they had independent controls, anything's possible!

also have seen on other classes where one wiper is slower/drags more than the other

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i think the normal 'parked' position was both wipers in the centre.

using that, i'd assume the wipers moved in/outward together - but if they had independent controls, anything's possible!

also have seen on other classes where one wiper is slower/drags more than the other

 

It looks like they actually might have been independent-swinging, this photo shows them stalled in the same position, but many other show the midline position.

 

For simplicity's sake, I'm leaving them as inverse, since that's what the Bachmann early 85 has modeled. Also, not sure if the 'dragging' wiper is intended or a problem, doesn't seem to sound too practical... :-)

 

Ron

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In this picture, (zoom in using the mouse) what are the small, sideways cylinders in front of the wheels, under the bogey frames? They look to me as part of some sort of linkage, but I'm not sure.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

Ron

I'm not quite sure what you mean, is it the brake cylinders...? Its be worth you getting hold of a Bachmann model for "reference" as it is pretty accurate, but like quite a few models that have been scanned, suffers the unfortunate effect of being modelled with its brakes on.

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I'm not quite sure what you mean, is it the brake cylinders...? Its be worth you getting hold of a Bachmann model for "reference" as it is pretty accurate, but like quite a few models that have been scanned, suffers the unfortunate effect of being modelled with its brakes on.

If you look very closely under the bearing of the axle closest to the camera (in the linked picture), you can see some sort of structure made of small round objects. It is rather small, and under the underframe's bearing housing.

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It's part of the Alsthom Drive, see attachment.

 

 

Don't ask me what it does though...

The traction motors on Classes 81 to 85 were rigidly attached to the bogie frame to reduce unsprung weight, unlike the axle hung motors on the 86. The Alsthom drive allows movement to occur between the axle and drive gear as the wheelset moves up and down in the suspension. Classes 81 and 82 used the same, Classes 83 and 84 had SLM BB drives. Class 87 used a simpler system using a hollow motor shaft with a concentric rubber bushed drive shaft within it and the gears were axle mounted.

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Stovepipe and Giz, thank you both for explaining, I would have otherwise overlooked it as a minor/invisible detail, when in reality it looks like a really important feature.

 

More questions appear: 

 

What color did the letter headcodes shine? Golden yellow, and was the presence of the sole two lamps behind each headcode digit prominent?

 

Did the blowers stop blowing when the reverser was brought back to idle? Or, was it a button in the cab? I am aware that forward or reverse turned on the blowers.

 

In Armstrong Powerhouse's excellent sounds (https://youtu.be/EBc-QQj1Nk4?t=1m8s) for the class 86, the traction motors can be heard winding up and screaming. Giz has stated that the 86 used a different traction motor setup, would this mean that the traction motors would sound different in the 85's?

 

Regards

 

Ron

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have attached the latest render of the 'roarer' Class 85. Looks like all the half-yellow-panel AC electrics had the second pantograph removed by the time. I have seen pictures of the full Electric Blue electrics missing the second pantograph.

 

What type of current did the second (later removed) pantograph serve, and how often was it used compared to the first head? Here's a bit of an ignorant question: Did the pantograph automatically adjust to the height of the contact wire? A bit of a stretch (hah) considering the time period and technology available, but if not, how did the driver adjust the height exactly to the contact wire height? I see differing heights in pictures, and wonder how the driver can maneuver the pantograph to the specific height without being able to see the head.

 

Thanks

 

Ron

post-25907-0-40941800-1485875985_thumb.jpg

Edited by Evertrainz
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