3D-Modeling AL5

[stovepipe]

BTW here's a good view of the cab side window deflectors. I think they all had them from new up to when the were air-braked.

 

AL5 E3091 & AL6 E3200 by runtheredline, on Flickr

[Evertrainz]

Ah, from Dagworth's picture I'd assumed the deflectors were a Blue era improvement but suppose not. After looking at the archives online from the 2-panto era looks like these were indeed on all pre-TOPS 85's.

 

I have added them, and also need to add the metal strip that ran from the pantograph base frame(s) to the central equipment. This looks to be a rigid fixture in earlier versions of the loco, but in later Blue pics it looks to be a flexible wire.

 

Also thanks for the list of other differences. Also I believe I've seen picture of an Electric Blue (no SYWP) 85 with a single pantograph. Also one with SYWP and single pantograph. Another one, E3056, with BR Blue and the pre-TOPS numbers and Ferret and Dartboard.

 

 

With regards to ETH, I don't think our sim has any ETH-compatible MK1's as of yet. Without spurring too far away from Class 85 territory out into MK1 territory, did the region that ran length of the WCML have coaches in Blood & Custard schemes, or were all Maroon? Nearly all promotional images and even real pictures of the early-60's AL5's have a uniformly-Maroon rake of stock behind.

 

... Now back into AL5 territory, another difference was that the early AL5's only had the yellow hose cock on the headstock, later Blue-era modifications fit in a red cock as well. I know only about vac bags, what did the yellow and red cocks serve? Quite sure yellow is air brake but why another red variant?

 

[MGR Hooper!]

What simulator is this for?

[Evertrainz]

What simulator is this for?

 

It will be for Trainz: A New Era. First time an 85 has been made for any simulator apart from the old MSTS Class 81.

 

EDIT: S'pose not.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Evertrainz

[MGR Hooper!]

It will be for Trainz: A New Era. First time an 85 has been made for any simulator apart from the old MSTS Class 81.

 

EDIT: S'pose not.

Excellent...I hope a good Class 86/87/90 comes out soon.

 

I wanted to buy T:ANE but was so disappointed after all the hype prior to it's release.

[Dagworth]

The conductors from pan to equipment are hollow tubes with flattened ends where they are bolted to the tops of the insulators. They stayed this way throughout the life of the locos.

 

 

The forked arrangement that can be seen nearest the camera would not be raised in service, it is an earthing arrangement. It normally lies away from the insulators, you can see it in the photo on the first page of both the 86 and 81 at New St.

 

Andi

Edited March 25, 2017 by Dagworth

[Evertrainz]

Excellent...I hope a good Class 86/87/90 comes out soon.

 

I wanted to buy T:ANE but was so disappointed after all the hype prior to it's release.

 

Hopefully our community can bring up to par with Train Simulator, see my Flickr as I have lots of high-detailed wagons coming soon as a result of months pestering the wagon enthusiasts on this site. Also there's a new 31 and 47, both of a detail level akin to my 85, coming out. A detailed 37 was released late last year, albeit only in BR Blue and EWS liveries. 

 

Hi Dagworth if they were truly rigid pipes then I suppose they were very flimsy as this picture shows them to be very bent and deformed https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/33357940321/in/pool-ukclass85locomotives/ .

[stovepipe]

With regards to ETH, I don't think our sim has any ETH-compatible MK1's as of yet. Without spurring too far away from Class 85 territory out into MK1 territory, did the region that ran length of the WCML have coaches in Blood & Custard schemes, or were all Maroon? Nearly all promotional images and even real pictures of the early-60's AL5's have a uniformly-Maroon rake of stock behind.

 

 

The general picture with Mk1 coach liveries is that Maroon was applied to new builds from 1956/7, and the dual-heated coaches for the LMR were built after this time. Blood and Custard lasted to about 1961/2 in front-line service, which coincides with the deliveries of the AL5s. So maybe in the very early days, on an inter-regional train, there might have been an odd coach in B&C, but I don't recall seeing such a photo.

[Evertrainz]

The general picture with Mk1 coach liveries is that Maroon was applied to new builds from 1956/7, and the dual-heated coaches for the LMR were built after this time. Blood and Custard lasted to about 1961/2 in front-line service, which coincides with the deliveries of the AL5s. So maybe in the very early days, on an inter-regional train, there might have been an odd coach in B&C, but I don't recall seeing such a photo.

 

Ah, that clears it up. Hopefully R3 picks up on those later builds with ETH featuring exclusively Maroon!

[Dagworth]

Hi Dagworth if they were truly rigid pipes then I suppose they were very flimsy as this picture shows them to be very bent and deformed https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/33357940321/in/pool-ukclass85locomotives/ .

Yes, they are copper tubing, they would get bent quite easily during maintenance

 

Andi

[Evertrainz]

Very very close to completion here. All that's left is the details on the interior bulkhead and handbrake.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

Excellent stuff mate...I'll PM you when I am free if you don't mind?

[Evertrainz]

What were some of the expresses these ran in the early 60's period?

 

Also were these trains worked by whatever electric available, or did preference run with the 85?

[stovepipe]

The AL6s didn't start arriving until August 1965, to coincide with the full electric service from Euston starting in April 1966, so the AL1-5s took all the electrified services up until that point, which was Crewe - Manchester (from Sept 1960) and later Crewe - Liverpool (from Jan 1962). The AL5s came along from August 1961, but only 20 were in service by the end of 1962, by which time all of AL1 to AL4 were in service.

 

So there were 80 AC locomotives available at the end on 1962, with AL5 only making 20 of them. However the AL3s and AL4s (25 locos) weren't particularly reliable, and were consequently less likely to be rostered for front-line service, meaning the AL1s and AL5s were more likely to be used for the Class 1 work, with the AL2s supporting. With all the AL5s in service by the end of 1964, their proportion of the passenger work can only have increased relative to the other classes. Once the AL6s arrived in numbers the AL5s would have increasingly been put onto less important passenger services and overnight workings.

 

Edited to correct some wayward dates....

Edited April 3, 2017 by stovepipe

[Evertrainz]

Looks like it was a really small stretch electrified in the early 60's, only around 45 miles?

 

And Crewe to Manchester is only around 30 mi., so were all 80 electrics confined to those small regions of electrification?

[stovepipe]

The diesel/electric changeover point moved south as the work progressed. I think Stafford, Nuneaton then Rugby but not sure what the effective dates were.

 

Edit: Stafford by January 1963

 

46240 City of Coventry at Stafford by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

 

and Rugby by March 1965

 

R0073 - Rugby Midland by Bill Wright, on Flickr

Edited April 3, 2017 by stovepipe

[Evertrainz]

Was there ever a case where the 6250V pantograph on the No.1 end was used?

[Titan]

Was there ever a case where the 6250V pantograph on the No.1 end was used?

 

Both Pantographs were identical and both could pick up 6,25kV or 25kV. Practice was to normally use the trailing pantograph so each pantograph was used in turn, meaning that use was about 50/50. It was thought that the pantographs would work best in the trailing position with knuckle leading. With operating experience it was discovered that it did not make much difference, and the rate of wear was such that one pantograph was perfectly adequate.

 

The only trains to ever use 6,25kV on a regular basis were the blue trains in the Glasgow Area and EMU's working out of Liverpool Street, which only had one pantograph per unit anyway.

[stovepipe]

It was originally envisaged for the WCML electrification that the voltage would have to be lowered to 6.25Kv where overhead clearances where low, however this was found not to be necessary, but only after all the AL1 - AL5 specifications were issued, and so all these locos had voltage changeover gear that was almost never used. I say almost because there were instances of locos being used on the GE electrified network for test purposes in the early days, and also later when this system was changed over to all 25Kv.

 

https://flic.kr/p/d2sze9

[GordonC]

It was originally envisaged for the WCML electrification that the voltage would have to be lowered to 6.25Kv where overhead clearances where low, however this was found not to be necessary, but only after all the AL1 - AL5 specifications were issued, and so all these locos had voltage changeover gear that was almost never used. I say almost because there were instances of locos being used on the GE electrified network for test purposes in the early days, and also later when this system was changed over to all 25Kv.

 

https://flic.kr/p/d2sze9

 

I also understand 6.25kV was used somewhere in the Glasgow network too, depending on where it was, the locos may have encountered 6.25kV on diversionary routes away from the normal 25kV WCML line

[keefer]

Official 1960 track diagrams of the Glasgow North system on Iain Logan's Electric Soup website:

 

http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/railway/gsetk.html

 

Includes the voltages, changeover points etc.

IIRC the last of the major works required to eliminate 6.25kV from the area were carried out in preparation for the 'Argyle Line' relaunch in 1979

[stovepipe]

That

 

Official 1960 track diagrams of the Glasgow North system on Iain Logan's Electric Soup website:

http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/railway/gsetk.html

Includes the voltages, changeover points etc.
IIRC the last of the major works required to eliminate 6.25kV from the area were carried out in preparation for the 'Argyle Line' relaunch in 1979

 

That site is a blast from the past, I thought it had gone when geocities(?) closed down. Based on the diagrams shown I don't think there were any viable 6.25Kv diversionary routes, and besides the class 86 and 87, which handled most of the Anglo-Scottish traffic, could only run on 25Kv. There is a list of the 6.25Kv lines here and when they were converted.

[Evertrainz]

When would the lamp brackets have been used? I have very rarely seen these used on most locomotives (apart from steam, of course).

[Titan]

When would the lamp brackets have been used? I have very rarely seen these used on most locomotives (apart from steam, of course).

 

They were used for carrying tail lamps when the locos worked light engine or was being towed. For some reason it was several years before the electric tail lamps were permitted to be used instead, and even then only one electric lamp out of the pair was used. If the loco was being towed dead it would still require a tail lamp as it was undesirable to drain the loco battery.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Titan

[Evertrainz]

They were used for carrying tail lamps when the locos worked light engine or was being towed. For some reason it was several years before the electric tail lamps were permitted to be used instead, and even then only one electric lamp out of the pair was used. If the loco was being towed dead it would still require a tail lamp as it was undesirable to drain the loco battery.

 

Ah, I forgot about the 'dead loco' scenario. But couldn't tail lights be used for light movements?