Tempfix Rich Papper Posted May 19, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) Hello All. Welcome to post number 100! Who would have thought this was this interesting! Static grass experiments over the past few days. Some bits I'm very happy with, others need a bit more work. I think I've learned a few things already. As mentioned above, I'm using a Green Scene Flockit and their 2mm and 4mm fibres. So, whole process: 1. Area given a coat of random tester pot B&Q brown. 2. Then covered with PVA and a scatter of Woodland Scenics 'fine earth' scatter material. Like most, seems to be finely ground foam. Does say 'earth' on the packet, but is quite clearly a dark green! Have watched various videos online - some seem to do this to add a bit of texture and others don't. Just felt a bit 'belt and braces' as it was first attempt. 3. Excess hoovered off. Used the end of a pair of tights over nozzle of hoover. Then glue blobbed randomly covering about 80% of the area and 2mm static grass in summer green. Picture below shows before hoovering off excess - it does get everywhere. 4. Next day, some more random glue blobbed over and a blend of 4mm straw and 4mm summer green. Idea was to leave some bare patches here and there, and plan is to have more vegetation, flock, foam and horsehair to make brambles etc on top too, so wasn't aiming at uniform. Fairly happy for a first go, but some issues. Biggest seems to be that I managed a very good effect on the relatively flat upper section and the small mound lower left, but the steeper slopes have not turned out as well. I suspect it's because I was holding the applicator too high above the lower part of the slope. I tried with the reducing funnel on the next section, but that didn't seem to turn out any better. More practice I think. If I had to go with some top tips, Hoover the area you are going to do before you even start - i.e. before the glue. I had heeded every tip about hoovering up and reusing the excess (of which there is a lot - serious money saving to be had here), but because I hadn't done so to start with I sucked up all other sorts of dust and debris with the first lot too, making it a bit useless to put back in the applicator. Hoovering - use a big hoover, the round pipe. I tried slipping the end of pair of tights over the nozzle of a handheld Dyson - nearly blew it up! It was too powerful so it nearly sucked the tights in, and began to really strain after only a small amount of fibres had built up inside. I'd also recommend listening very carefully to the motor of the hoover - you need to regularly turn the tights inside out to decant the excess you've sucked up. Minimal glue is needed. I was really surprised just how little was needed for this stuff to stick. Thinking about it the surface area of the end of one of the nylon fibres must be pretty infinitesimally small. Next then, have ordered some layering glue from WWS just to give that a try. And have had a go at making some brambles out of rubberised horse hair. Jury's still out on that. Have a good evening. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 looking good like the camera truck videos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 On 19/05/2019 at 22:52, Rich Papper said: Hello All. Welcome to post number 100! Who would have thought this was this interesting! Static grass experiments over the past few days. Some bits I'm very happy with, others need a bit more work. I think I've learned a few things already. As mentioned above, I'm using a Green Scene Flockit and their 2mm and 4mm fibres. So, whole process: 1. Area given a coat of random tester pot B&Q brown. 2. Then covered with PVA and a scatter of Woodland Scenics 'fine earth' scatter material. Like most, seems to be finely ground foam. Does say 'earth' on the packet, but is quite clearly a dark green! Have watched various videos online - some seem to do this to add a bit of texture and others don't. Just felt a bit 'belt and braces' as it was first attempt. 3. Excess hoovered off. Used the end of a pair of tights over nozzle of hoover. Then glue blobbed randomly covering about 80% of the area and 2mm static grass in summer green. Picture below shows before hoovering off excess - it does get everywhere. 4. Next day, some more random glue blobbed over and a blend of 4mm straw and 4mm summer green. Idea was to leave some bare patches here and there, and plan is to have more vegetation, flock, foam and horsehair to make brambles etc on top too, so wan't aiming at uniform. Fairly happy for a first go, but some issues. Biggest seems to be that I managed a very good effect on the relatively flat upper section and the small mound lower left, but the steeper slopes have not turned out as well. I suspect it's because I was holding the applicator too high above the lower part of the slope. I tried with the reducing funnel on the next section, but that didn't seem to turn out any better. More practice I think. If I had to go with some top tips, Hoover the area you are going to do before you even start - i.e. before the glue. I had heeded every tip about hoovering up and reusing the excess (of which there is a lot - serious money saving to be had here), but because I hadn't done so to start with I sucked up all other sorts of dust and debris with the first lot too, making it a bit useless to put back in the applicator. Hoovering - use a big hoover, the round pipe. I tried slipping the end of pair of tights over the nozzle of a handheld Dyson - nearly blew it up! It was too powerful so it nearly sucked the tights in, and began to really strain after only a small amount of fibres had built up inside. I'd also recommend listening very carefully to the motor of the hoover - you need to regularly turn the tights inside out to decant the excess you've sucked up. Minimal glue is needed. I was really surprised just how little was needed for this stuff to stick. Thinking about it the surface area of the end of one of the nylon fibres must be pretty infinitesimally small. Next then, have ordered some layering glue from WWS just to give that a try. And have had a go at making some brambles out of rubberised horse hair. Jury's still out on that. Have a good evening. Rich Afternoon Rich You will WWS layering , good plus the spray glue , good for building up , well I think so . Good luck with the next go , saying that I like what you have done so far , I would be pleased with it . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Benjamin Brady said: Afternoon Rich You will WWS layering , good plus the spray glue , good for building up , well I think so . Good luck with the next go , saying that I like what you have done so far , I would be pleased with it . Never try to do two jobs at once , miss words out and sentence all wrong , ( FIND ) and ( GLUE ) Ooops ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 8, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Good Evening, Thanks all for votes of confidence above. Taking a quick change into a bit of track fiddling tonight, one of those chain of logic issues. Need to finish the greenery, but need to do it up to the bridge, so need to ge tthe bridge fixed in place, so need to sort and ballast the track beneath the bridge etc. Main issue that I spotted about two years ago now was that the pointwork for the DMU depot on the lower level left quite a tight clearance on the rear of three lines entering the shed. Although the prototype I'm going to loosely base the end of the shed on (Marylebone - picture here) also has quite a sharp curve to the rear road, I thought I could shuffle the pointwork along a bit to buy a bit of space. In the end about three hours work to gain about 2 inches, but better than nothing and I did have an issue with one of the sets of points already there with a spare waiting to swap in so would have had to do something to it before ballasting anyway. Have decided to stick with the insulfrog points here - mainly because I already have the ones there plus a good few spares, but also to save the pennies. Replacing these five short radius points with electrofrog and adding in the frog juicer would be over £100. I'm aware of possible future issues, but Oxford Road has all insulfrog and has been happily working at home and exhibitions for more than 10 years now. These are right at the front in a very accessible part of the layout anyway so could replace or add a few extra droppers to if needed. Enough waffle anyway, pictures. Please excuse background debris. 1. Bridge off, pointwork out. 2. Cutting rails in very confined cutting - sore hand. Managed to preserve pieces that meet at board joins and all but one set of droppers. 3. Points back in, reconnect everything before my son realises I've meddled with 'his' siding! Various track furniture to add in now - cable troughs etc. Was going to put in point motors but I suspect on depot that they would be hand operated. Will put in bases, but the etched brass levers I've got in a box somewhere won't survive 2 and 3 year old so can wait! Hopefully something on the bridge soon. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono799 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Quite interesting to see this layout progress. Always checking for new updates, highly appreciated! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 11, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Hello All. A bit of mid-week ballasting. Trying to get the bit under the bridge done so I can fix the bridge in place. Is a very short section, but annoyingly includes three points, so taking time not to glue them one way! Rail sides painted, then ballast on and glued in the usual way. Woodland Scenics brown and light grey mixed. Slightly higher proportion of brown than on the main lines. Top tip picked up on here somewhere - small strip of greaseproof paper between the boards when ballasting - PVA doesn't stick to it. Then a mist over with an airbrush. Humbrol 29, darkened with a little matt black in places. Fairly happy with close to. A bit of greenery needed, although won't overdo it under the bridge as less grows where its darker. Still looks a bit set-tracky - but I can live with that if it withstands a 2 and a 3 year old pushing Thomas back and forth on it! More soon. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 14, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) Good Evening. Have been having a bit of a disaster over the last couple of nights. The points I moved beneath the bridge have failed already. Not sure exactly why, but got an intermittent electrically dead section in the middle of the first left hander. Varies between full track voltage (seems to be about 14.4V according to my very old multimeter), about 11.2V (which stops everything crossing it and leaves it sat buzzing, and 0V dead. Serves me right for trying to cut corners. I suppose I haven't really lost anything other than time, but still annoying to have to dig up and start again. Grrr. A diversion then. Work has also been going on in parallel with the bridge itself. I have a couple of plate girders made with the Wills Vari-Girder packs, at least one with brick across the top, and a couple with stone balustrade on the Sydney Gardens bit. Don't have a lattice girder, and found myself looking at one at Broadway Station on the GWSR recently wondering why. Problem is - a great deal of internet searching didn't reveal one that I particularly liked. The only ones I could find were laser cut wood and, although a great innovation, were far too chunky. So I thought I'd make one. How hard can it be? 1. Make a template on the computer to check what it looks like. Nothing fancy, just some squares turned through 45 degrees. 2. Stick template to work bench with masking tape facing sticky side up around it. 3. Then all I need to do is get some (a lot!) Plastruct strips. Well I would have done, but even my rudimentary maths realised that this would be a bit pricey. So I thought I'd just cut strips out of an A4 sheet of plasticard. All I'd need to do is cut about 70 all exactly 1.2mm wide. Then, one layer on template, then the second on top one at a time with steel rule to align. Tiny brush + MekPak = headache! 4. Once all in place some slightly thicker and wider bits to frame. 5. Leave for a day to harden and then very carefully trim edges, lift and fit framing to other side. Cut length-ways to give two sides. 6. Knock up some abutments with some Wills sheets, and (surprisingly) it looks something like I thought it would. Won't rush to paint it as obviously I have to rip up the points underneath it first! I think it is resilient enough for small people to push cars across it. Idea is a disused track bed that is being used as an access route to the signal box on the upper level. May be space for the odd piece of civil engineers junk too. More soon I hope. Off to my local exhibition tomorrow (Hucclecote, Gloucester) with Thing 1. Backbreaking lifting but good rehearsal - trying to decide if he's old enough for Warley this year. Rich Edited May 1, 2022 by Rich Papper 13 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Looks very good! Theres something about a good lattice bridge. Made a lattice girder bridge for my own layout, but I used angle section for the actual lattice, as its based on one of the Anglesey Central Railway ones. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 15, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 14/06/2019 at 21:44, CazRail said: Looks very good! Theres something about a good lattice bridge. Made a lattice girder bridge for my own layout, but I used angle section for the actual lattice, as its based on one of the Anglesey Central Railway ones. Thank you. I think yours was my eventual inspiration for trying to do it myself having not found anything adaptable ready-done, so thank you again! The one thing I forgot to mention above was that I went through stages 1-4 above with 0.3mm styrene and decided at that stage that it looked too spindly, so chucked it to one side and did the whole lot again with 0.5mm. I think when I started the thread for this layout I said 10 years - might be more at this rate! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 16, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Evening All, A bit of a fathers day running session this afternoon as Thing 1 wanted to play with my present - some Bachmann Mk1 Pullmans. Split from a set new and unboxed from Hattons. Good price, but seem to be missing some decoration. Nothing some transfers won't fix, and they really are rather nice. Not aiming at anything in particular here - have seen images of them in use on railtours in the 70s / 80s. Had a good few laps behind sound fitted Sir Nigel Gresley this afternoon in memory of my dad. Lamps do show up in the picture. Fairly ineffective gimmick, but I like them. Can't run trains without something NSE creeping in though. 47573 'The London Standard' sneaking under new girder bridge. Sorry, that implies it was moving! These are the points I loused up. Replacements on order. Have a good evening. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markmiller2008 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I Like the lattice bridge a lot, that is some good modelling there! The MK1 Pullmans you mention must be from the Shakespeare Express set, thats the reason they are missing some decoration and also have a orange stripe on the gutter as they are mainline ones. Unfortunately in real they are missing some decoration too! Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 16/06/2019 at 00:08, Rich Papper said: Thank you. I think yours was my eventual inspiration for trying to do it myself having not found anything adaptable ready-done, so thank you again! The one thing I forgot to mention above was that I went through stages 1-4 above with 0.3mm styrene and decided at that stage that it looked too spindly, so chucked it to one side and did the whole lot again with 0.5mm. I think when I started the thread for this layout I said 10 years - might be more at this rate! Rich I am sure you could fit a small bus on there Rich?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 16/06/2019 at 23:46, Rich Papper said: Evening All, A bit of a fathers day running session this afternoon as Thing 1 wanted to play with my present - some Bachmann Mk1 Pullmans. Split from a set new and unboxed from Hattons. Good price, but seem to be missing some decoration. Nothing some transfers won't fix, and they really are rather nice. Not aiming at anything in particular here - have seen images of them in use on railtours in the 70s / 80s. Had a good few laps behind sound fitted Sir Nigel Gresley this afternoon in memory of my dad. Lamps do show up in the picture. Fairly ineffective gimmick, but I like them. Can't run trains without something NSE creeping in though. 47573 'The London Standard' sneaking under new girder bridge. Sorry, that implies it was moving! These are the points I loused up. Replacements on order. Have a good evening. Rich Lovely, but the lamps are not a new "gimmick"!! I had a set many years ago that had working table lamps - perhaps Wrenn? I cannot remember! But they were not of any use whatsoever until the sun set. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 19, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Markmiller2008 said: I Like the lattice bridge a lot, that is some good modelling there! The MK1 Pullmans you mention must be from the Shakespeare Express set, thats the reason they are missing some decoration and also have a orange stripe on the gutter as they are mainline ones. Unfortunately in real they are missing some decoration too! Mark I hadn't even noticed the orange cantrail line - thanks for that. Was going to add a bit of extra decoration before a light weathering anyway. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 19, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) On 19/06/2019 at 20:08, Mike Storey said: I am sure you could fit a small bus on there Rich?? Plan is for more of a track than a road. Anyone mind if this counts? Got some other bridges that'll need a bus. In other news, new points and frog juicer arrived today. Really not looking forward to that. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 23 hours ago, Rich Papper said: Plan is for more of a track than a road. Anyone mind if this counts? Got some other bridges that'll need a bus. In other news, new points and frog juicer arrived today. Really not looking forward to that. Rich That'll do! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 21, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Happy Solstice All. A bit of one step forward two steps back from the last couple of nights. Managed to preserve a bit of the previous ballasting away from the points. Got some boiling water in a mug and dropped a little along with a pipette as one does when ballasting - only bare minimum. Left it about a minute and points were free enough to wriggle out. Annoyed though I am, I'm actually quite surprised how easy it was given how hard the ballast sets. This took about 5 mins total. Hopefully can blend new bits in. So back to what I should have done in the first place. Picture below, but I'm sure others do this far better than me. Peco electrofrogs. From left to right: 1. As supplied. 2. Cut jumpers between frog and point blades. 3. Cut sleeper plastic webbing between jumper location and actual blades. 4. Solder wire jumpers across between diverging tracks. This way the toe end of the points is not relying on the contact of the blades for electrical continuity, and with insulated joiners on the two middle rails at the other end, the frog juicer can flip the frog polarity around however it needs to be. Disclaimer here: I think there are other ways, but this has worked for me on the others I've used for about 6 years now without issue. Fingers crossed! Have a good evening. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 4 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted June 25, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) Good Evening, A little more progress tonight. The five points are now down and the track reconnected. Only the front two sidings have ever actually been connected. These were put in at the outset as an area to test stock - the front line is connected through a rotary switch so it can either be completely dead, DC powered through a Gaugemaster model W walkabout controller that connects via a DIN plug, DCC programming track, or full DCC connected to the rest of the layout. One of those rare things that I thought of in advance that actually worked! This then allowed the boards to be unbolted and disconnected so I could flip this one onto its back. The backscene pieces are the right height to allow it to stand completely stable on the two battens that support the boards. I'd like to say that this is by design, but can't remember - might have been luck! Does allow me to work comfortably on the underside though. As can be seen, the Tam Valley frog juicer is now in place near the middle and an additional DCC Concepts ADS2 added for the points. There was an ADS8 already there, but didn't have quite enough spare outputs. Those that are already connected deal with the additional hidden loop in the tunnel this side, and those on the upper level near the station. One thing I like about the frog juicer is that it bills itself as a 'fit and forget' solution. They're not wrong as I've fitted two and cannot remember doing it. The same for all the electrical trickery, so to save my ailing memory all boards had one of these pasted on when they were first built. What worries me slightly is that I spend evenings like this thanking past-me for having thought that far ahead, and then slowly realising that having had children since I don't think my brain is capable of this level of thought any more! Have a good evening. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Very impressive stuff Rich, no matter how you got there!! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted July 7, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) Good Evening All, Well, after about two weeks I look very much like I'm back where I was before. Annoying, but better to get it right now than find it's not working as it should when I've built something in the way. Have actually spent several nights this week with a recalcitrant point motor. Following the rewire necessary for the electrofog points and the addition of the frog juicer all went well on test, only for one of the points to start playing up when all was bolted back together. For some reason it would only throw one way. Much fiddling and microscopic realignments later it seems to be working reliably now. To the pictures: Wiring. Takes forever but I do find it strangely therapeutic. Then getting the additional connections to the small local panel in the bridge abutment. The upper level switches control those point son the upper level where the station is, the two as yet unused ones will be for the platform starter signals when installed. The lower ones control the yard and a facing crossover on the main lines. The two LED indicators are connected to infra red detectors in the tunnel that show where the front of the train is in the passing loop. So to the points, and the source of the last week's swearing. The one under the bridge needed ballasting again. Glad I salvaged the ballast as it made the job quicker. Was tempted to leave it a little lighter as made an interesting effect - maybe a replaced section, but decided the effect would look more prototypical on the main line. Airbrush. Humbrol 29 with a dash of 33 in places. Then rail cleaning. A quick go over with cotton but and thinners, then a track rubber. All of which means visually I'm back where I was two weeks ago. In fairness though the point motors are now in and I wouldn't have done that yet otherwise - was supposed to be sorting the upper level first so I don't have to lean over finished things! And running should be better. Spent half an hour trying different stock backwards and forwards this evening and all seems to be taking it well. Hopefully a forward step next! Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted July 14, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) Good Afternoon All. A bit of a running session this unexpectedly child-free afternoon (I know I won't be laughing when I have to reciprocate on all these 4th birthday parties!). A little work too just to keep things ticking over. Class 121s 55031 and 55020 trundle through a cutting. Hanging basket liner here. Very happy with it, but needs breaking up a bit with a few bushes or something. 08507 trundles slowly across the junction with a train of air braked vans. A light load of 1 HEA for 37049. Bought the wagon about 20 years ago second hand. Son found it in the spares box, tempted to give it a bit of detailing. A 104/101 combination through Sydney Gardens. And just to prove work is ongoing between playing, before putting all the ballasting bits out of reach again I completed the end of the siding in the foreground of the picture below. Also added a pair of Peco buffers to replace the clip on Hornby ones that had sufficed up to this point to stop small people shunting things off the end. This is intended to be a bit overgrown, hence the different shades of weathering applied, but still in regular use. I remember regularly exploring the sidings next to the old swing bridge (soon to be preserved?) at the north end of Oxford Station as a kid in the 80s. It was unfenced so you could just wander across the ballast and peak in the cab of whatever was parked there - usually some sort of DMU. Also fiddling with some brickwork around the bridge. Thought I'd try to get as much of it done as possible so I could paint it all at once. New bits are red in the picture below. Astonishing how long little bits like this take. Hopefully more greenery soon (to hide the questionable engineering!). Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Looking good. I love using hanging basket liner. I that 104 , something a bit different . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempfix Rich Papper Posted July 29, 2019 Author Tempfix Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Good Evening All A short holiday and back to the mess making. Today's small step forward involved making and fitting the fascia boards for three of the baseboards. Does neaten it up a bit. Labels still needed for this switch panel. Views below. Hopefully time for painting the lattice girder and getting a bit more ground cover down this week. Rich Edited October 15, 2022 by Rich Papper Replace photos 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Loving the RTC Derby unit, is it a kit? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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