Model Rail/Rapido Trains GER/LNER 'J70' 0-6-0T 'Project Toby'

[Edwardian]

21 hours ago, dibber25 said:

One of the pair was done up at Stratford works in GER varnished teak........and then scrapped anyway. I have a very nice photo of it ex-works, if I can find it. (CJL)

 

[Johann Marsbar]

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

There was an LT&SR coach that had been restored for the lines Centenary that met the same fate at Stratford around the same time as the GER tramway one. Somewhere I have an official BR photo of it together with the associated Press Release concerning its exhibition at an event in Southend.

[Henners84]

Thought I'd managed to order the final version kernow models had in stock of the 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' side skirted version this week (mr-205). Then received an email that the model was damaged and no other version in this livery is available. Disappointed but I suppose these things happened. 

However, if anyone feels their time with their version may be coming to an end, I'd be very willing to trade (or swap if you wished you'd picked up a different livery...)! 

[dibber25]

1 hour ago, Henners84 said:

Thought I'd managed to order the final version kernow models had in stock of the 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' side skirted version this week (mr-205). Then received an email that the model was damaged and no other version in this livery is available. Disappointed but I suppose these things happened. 

However, if anyone feels their time with their version may be coming to an end, I'd be very willing to trade (or swap if you wished you'd picked up a different livery...)! 

Yes, I'm afraid MR-205 is now sold out. We were notified earlier this week. (CJL)

[NHY 581]

4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Yes, I'm afraid MR-205 is now sold out. We were notified earlier this week. (CJL)

 

Perhaps an  inevitable question, Chris. Any plans for another perhaps smaller batch ?

A repeat of an early crest jobbie would be nice. 

 

Rob

[Henners84]

7 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Perhaps an  inevitable question, Chris. Any plans for another perhaps smaller batch ?

A repeat of an early crest jobbie would be nice. 

 

Rob

I asked the guy at kernow who I'd been speaking with over email who said no. But if tons more want it maybe there's a chance for some of the more popular liveries to get re done? Will need more than the 2 of us I guess. 

I'm also hoping kernow decide to re release their bulleid diesel in black but have been told that's also a no. 

Think it may end up being a punt on ebay for each whenever they turn up... 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Henners84
Typo

[dibber25]

On 30/04/2021 at 00:54, NHY 581 said:

 

Perhaps an  inevitable question, Chris. Any plans for another perhaps smaller batch ?

A repeat of an early crest jobbie would be nice. 

 

Rob

I think it's unlikely that there will be re-runs any time soon, due to the number of other projects to which MR is committed, but you can never say never. Both the J70 and the USA have shown the high level of interest that there is in the standard BR liveries, compared to specials, one-offs and earlier big four liveries, but predicting that balance for a production run is never easy. (CJL)

[Henners84]

All, just a note to say that a very kind gentleman on this thread sent me a private message offering to sell a superfluous (to him) mr-205 loco he had. I won't mention names (in case he prefers annonymity  but just want to say I am very grateful for your generosity. 

I think it also speak volumes for the modelling community that we have in our hobby. 

Thank you! 

[Graham_Muz]

On 30/04/2021 at 08:17, Henners84 said:

I'm also hoping kernow decide to re release their bulleid diesel in black but have been told that's also a no. 

Think it may end up being a punt on ebay for each whenever they turn up... 

 

Slightly off topic for this thread but like Chris I would also say "never say never" ...

[EHertsGER]

On the subject of liveries and re-liveries, Fox have just let me know the red lined blue panels I commissioned to backdate the J70 and Y6 (you’ll need a D&S or Connoisseur kit) are ready. Watch this space. If satisfactory I will have a very limited number of sets spare.

 

The idea was to be able to place a red lined blue panel directly into the black background of the side panels, along with similar (fiddly!) panels to the buffer beam and end panels. Let’s see how they turned out...

[EHertsGER]

They’ve arrived! I have used one set on a D&S Y6 and am about to fit the other set to the J70, so let’s see how it goes. Anyone interested in a set should seek out ‘GER lined blue panels for Y6 and J70 4mm scale/00’ on that auction site. I have a very small number spare, selling at £12 including postage for the set of both vehicles panels. No, I won’t split them - the spare may come in handy if disaster strikes!

 

 

As you can see they are a set of blue panels with the fine red lining around them. They are intended to be installed over a black background, as would be the case with the J70 ‘out of the box’. Lettering and numbering must be sourced from the Fox range as well. 

The main panels and the smaller end and side panels should be self-explantory, but the buffer beam panels may need some guidance. As they are they will fit as one panel, provided you have not fitted the buffers, couplings or safety chain loops. The holes for the buffers are marked to guide you in trimming the decal to fit around installed buffers. If you have fitted anything else you are in for more cutting. I was in that position and they held up well without folding over or rolling; they are produced by Fox so they can be expected to be good and I find them to be so.

 

Now to find D&S or Connoisseur kits for the Y6. Jim...? Danny...? Otherwise I hope to see a lot of blue J70s!

 

Best,

Marcus

Edited May 23, 2021 by EHertsGER

[Jammy2305]

On 22/05/2021 at 22:14, EHertsGER said:

They’ve arrived! I have used one set on a D&S Y6 and am about to fit the other set to the J70, so let’s see how it goes. Anyone interested in a set should seek out ‘GER lined blue panels for Y6 and J70 4mm scale/00’ on that auction site. I have a very small number spare, selling at £12 including postage for the set of both vehicles panels. No, I won’t split them - the spare may come in handy if disaster strikes!

 

 

As you can see they are a set of blue panels with the fine red lining around them. They are intended to be installed over a black background, as would be the case with the J70 ‘out of the box’. Lettering and numbering must be sourced from the Fox range as well. 

The main panels and the smaller end and side panels should be self-explantory, but the buffer beam panels may need some guidance. As they are they will fit as one panel, provided you have not fitted the buffers, couplings or safety chain loops. The holes for the buffers are marked to guide you in trimming the decal to fit around installed buffers. If you have fitted anything else you are in for more cutting. I was in that position and they held up well without folding over or rolling; they are produced by Fox so they can be expected to be good and I find them to be so.

 

Now to find D&S or Connoisseur kits for the Y6. Jim...? Danny...? Otherwise I hope to see a lot of blue J70s!

 

Best,

Marcus

 

Order placed... Looking forward to seeing what the finished model will look like. I just need to source some blue for the skirts and buffer shanks in the meantime... 

 

- James

[EHertsGER]

James et al,

 

Watch this space, I’m working my way through several options. Currently Revell 51 is front runner...

 

I know Precision produce two GER blues, but neither ‘look’ right to me. My reference point are the C Hamilton Ellis paintings on the grounds that he actually saw those engines. Precision have relied on paint chips and the memory of a retired fellow of some kind. Add to that the ‘look’ of 490 and the NNR J15 and I feel we are close. 
 

I’ll put up photos of the decal/paint combination once done. The lettering has also arrived!

 

best,

Marcus

[EHertsGER]

Progress so far; more to come once I have the J70 apart. For now, here is the D&S Y6 with the panels in place. The key issue has always been matching the colour. After much spotting of paint and mixing ghastly hues I have stumbled upon Revell 51 Ultramarine (well there’s a surprise as GER ‘blue’ was known as ‘ultramarine’) enamel in a gloss finish. Luckily it’s available on Amazon in the UK so you should find it in the shops.

 

It appears to me to be about as close a match as possible - and this is straight out of the tin.

 

Side view - awful light!

End view - even worse!

 

The lettering is from the current Fox range.

 

more anon...

 

Brst,

Marcus

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by EHertsGER

[EHertsGER]

So here they both are in as finished a state as I have them right now. I am sure subtle details will emerge in the cruel light of the camera, but I did promise, so here they are.

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, on the left is the Raipdo J70 and on the right is a Y6 from the D&S kit. Y6s are hard to find right now as the D&S kit and the Connoisseur kit (which the decals also fit) are out of production. However, there is, I believe, one available on Shapeways, but I have not tried the decals’ fit to that one. I have enough already!

 

The Rapido J70 above the blue is ‘out of the box’; I wasn’t going to make this harder than necessary and so for ‘varnished teak’ it will have to do. The Y60 uses Precision dark teak. I have no number plates for the J70 as I am modelling it. Reference to Peter Paye’s book on the W&U will give numbers and their build dates - several of the J70s never saw blue livery, going straight to crimson and grey. Others duplicated old Y6 numbers.

 

For those who don’t fancy painting the skirts, 138 was seen in at least one photograph with black skirts so all you need are the decals if you don’t mind black buffer shanks.

 

The skirts have been colour-matched to the decals using Revell 51 gloss ultramarine straight out of the tin - no mixing etc - and airbrushed the flat gloss over the lot. Lettering is from the existing Fox range. I have a very small number of sets left - see above for their search name on that auction site. £12 post included (yes, from NY!)

 

best,

Marcus

Edited November 7, 2021 by EHertsGER

[Corbs]

They look lovely

 

[Jammy2305]

 

And here is my contribution! Using the transfers kindly supplied by @EHertsGER, I have converted my own J70 to become C53 No.139. The bufferbeams were a tad fiddly but overall the transfers are of great quality and have allowed me to create something that I otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity to add to my collection. 

 

I have lightly weathered the roof and woodwork but have so far left the colourful bits pristine. I may tone down the gloss of the skirts yet, however. All that remains is to source some numberplates from Narrow Planet, if ever they get back to me... 

 

Best wishes

 

James

[NHY 581]

Just a thought, 

 

Given the fact that the E1 is now to be produced by Rapido themselves, could we see the same happen to the J70? 

 

Stocks are very low at Kernow/ Model Rail with some variants sold out. It would be such a shame not to have these available again. 

 

 

Rob

[mdvle]

9 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Given the fact that the E1 is now to be produced by Rapido themselves, could we see the same happen to the J70? 

 

Anything is possible, but they are really 2 different circumstances (based on what I have read on RMweb).

 

The E1 was a project being pushed/guided at Model Rail by Richard apparently, and when he left for Rapido that left it a bit of an orphan with no one to undertake the work at Model Rail.

 

On the other hand the J70 is a completed project, and thus easier for Model Rail to hold onto and if they want produce another run in the future - though any number of options exist that allow for Rapido to bring another run whether simply a "licence" from Model Rail or the outright sale.

 

And for anyone else reading this, at this point Rapido are merely considering producing the E1 - they are running what is essentially an expression of interest survey to judge demand.

 

9 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Stocks are very low at Kernow/ Model Rail with some variants sold out. It would be such a shame not to have these available again.

 

I guess that another run (if it happens) is at least several years away - whoever does it needs to allow time for market demand to increase to a sufficient level to be able to sell the number of units in a run.

[wainwright1]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Anything is possible, but they are really 2 different circumstances (based on what I have read on RMweb).

 

The E1 was a project being pushed/guided at Model Rail by Richard apparently, and when he left for Rapido that left it a bit of an orphan with no one to undertake the work at Model Rail.

 

On the other hand the J70 is a completed project, and thus easier for Model Rail to hold onto and if they want produce another run in the future - though any number of options exist that allow for Rapido to bring another run whether simply a "licence" from Model Rail or the outright sale.

 

And for anyone else reading this, at this point Rapido are merely considering producing the E1 - they are running what is essentially an expression of interest survey to judge demand.

 

 

I guess that another run (if it happens) is at least several years away - whoever does it needs to allow time for market demand to increase to a sufficient level to be able to sell the number of units in a run.

Maybe they could do the liveries so far missed - Various GER and early LNER. That's with LNER on the side with lining and full skirts.

 

All the best

Ray

[Edwardian]

On 27/10/2021 at 16:34, wainwright1 said:

Maybe they could do the liveries so far missed - Various GER and early LNER. That's with LNER on the side with lining and full skirts.

 

All the best

Ray

 

The danger with market research is that it only tells you what people think they want before you make a thing.

 

It misses out all those people who buy a thing that does not fit with their previous plans because you made it and it's gorgeous.

 

Having, thus, failed to make a single GER version, even one in coach brown and ultramarine, MR will not, presumably, be able to fund a batch including that livery until its sold all of the 10 pretty similar late LNE and BR versions.

 

A shame they didn't throw in at least a blue one, if not a grey/crimson and a lined LNE one.  I remain convinced that a GER blue version, if released, would have sold out long ago.

 

[Annie]

11 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

A shame they didn't throw in at least a blue one, if not a grey/crimson and a lined LNE one.  I remain convinced that a GER blue version, if released, would have sold out long ago.

It certainly seems blindingly obvious to me James.

[MarkSG]

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

The danger with market research is that it only tells you what people think they want before you make a thing.

 

That's a common misconception, but it isn't really true. Market research isn't just about asking people what they would buy. It isn't even mainly about asking people what they would buy. A large, and very important part, is about looking at what people have bought in the past, and analysing trends in what they buy (or don't buy). 

 

The reality is that, if you look at sales figures, pre-grouping models tend to be less popular than Big Four or BR. There are all sorts of reasons for that, and quite possibly there's a bit of chicken and egg about it - it may well be, that, like the recent surge in industrials, what it would take to unlock pre-grouping for the mass market is for a manufacturer to take a punt on it in the way that Hornby did with the Peckett. But, if that is what it will take, then  it will need to be one of the leading manufacturers (and, for that matter, almost certainly Hornby) that does it. Because it's a risk that only a big manufacturer can take, and only a big manufacturer has the retail reach to put those models in front of a large enough audience to change buying habits.  A magazine commission from a small, and relatively unknown, manufacturer isn't going to do it.

 

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

It misses out all those people who buy a thing that does not fit with their previous plans because you made it and it's gorgeous.

 

A lot of potential purchasers don't have previous plans. A lot of people buy whatever takes their fancy. Not everyone who buys model trains is a modeller of the type found on RMweb. A significant proportion of them are "train set" type of buyers who happily mix and match according to what catches their eye. And another significant proportion are collectors who may never even run their models, they just want something that looks nice on their display shelf.

 

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Having, thus, failed to make a single GER version, even one in coach brown and ultramarine, MR will not, presumably, be able to fund a batch including that livery until its sold all of the 10 pretty similar late LNE and BR versions.

 

No, because that's pretty much how the finances of commissions work.

 

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

A shame they didn't throw in at least a blue one, if not a grey/crimson and a lined LNE one.  I remain convinced that a GER blue version, if released, would have sold out long ago.

 

 

Whereas I think it would have been one of the slowest to sell.

[Edwardian]

42 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

That's a common misconception, but it isn't really true. Market research isn't just about asking people what they would buy. It isn't even mainly about asking people what they would buy. A large, and very important part, is about looking at what people have bought in the past, and analysing trends in what they buy (or don't buy). 

 

The reality is that, if you look at sales figures, pre-grouping models tend to be less popular than Big Four or BR. There are all sorts of reasons for that, and quite possibly there's a bit of chicken and egg about it - it may well be, that, like the recent surge in industrials, what it would take to unlock pre-grouping for the mass market is for a manufacturer to take a punt on it in the way that Hornby did with the Peckett. But, if that is what it will take, then  it will need to be one of the leading manufacturers (and, for that matter, almost certainly Hornby) that does it. Because it's a risk that only a big manufacturer can take, and only a big manufacturer has the retail reach to put those models in front of a large enough audience to change buying habits.  A magazine commission from a small, and relatively unknown, manufacturer isn't going to do it.

 

 

A lot of potential purchasers don't have previous plans. A lot of people buy whatever takes their fancy. Not everyone who buys model trains is a modeller of the type found on RMweb. A significant proportion of them are "train set" type of buyers who happily mix and match according to what catches their eye. And another significant proportion are collectors who may never even run their models, they just want something that looks nice on their display shelf.

 

 

No, because that's pretty much how the finances of commissions work.

 

 

 

Whereas I think it would have been one of the slowest to sell.

 

What I've glimpsed of the market persuades me otherwise, but, I don't profess comprehensive expertise, I just listen to what some insiders say within my earshot, so, you could be right! 

[Edwardian]

55 minutes ago, Annie said:

It certainly seems blindingly obvious to me James.

 

Quite

 

The market has moved on a lot in recent years, though some remain in denial as to that. What was a true perception of the market 3, 4, 5 years ago is not reliable now.

 

In fairness to MR, the market moved on about the time MR must have decided not to risk a pre-Group versions, and they can be forgiven for missing the trend. Still a great shame though.