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Model Rail/Rapido Trains GER/LNER 'J70' 0-6-0T 'Project Toby'


dibber25
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1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

I'm currently using a Hornby train set controller on the early iteration of the shunting plank without any issues, although of course, given that it is only a couple of yards long, I'm never turning the power knob up to 11. And it is a new controller, not an ancient one from my own train set days - it's the one that came with the Christmas train set I bought for the children a couple of years ago.

 

Oddly enough, though, the reason I am using a train set controller is because the Gaugemaster controller I was using stopped working for some reason. That's the first time I've ever had a controller, of any brand, die on me, so I can only presume it's sheer bad luck.

 

Without turning this into a thread about controllers I would suggest getting in touch with Gaugemaster as they have a lifetime guarantee.

 

GUARANTEE: We undertake to replace, free of charge, any parts found defective within the lifetime of the unit, providing the item has not been tampered with and parts are still available for such a repair. This guarantee covers only the supply of replacement parts, labour cost for fitting of same and the cost of returning the unit to the customer or retailer. This Guarantee does not affect your Statutory Rights. We reserve the right to vary design or specification without notice. 
 
 

 

Jason

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26 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Without turning this into a thread about controllers I would suggest getting in touch with Gaugemaster as they have a lifetime guarantee.

 

GUARANTEE: We undertake to replace, free of charge, any parts found defective within the lifetime of the unit, providing the item has not been tampered with and parts are still available for such a repair. This guarantee covers only the supply of replacement parts, labour cost for fitting of same and the cost of returning the unit to the customer or retailer. This Guarantee does not affect your Statutory Rights. We reserve the right to vary design or specification without notice. 
 
 

 

Jason

 

Not my experience either.

 

I’ve had a Gaugemaster WS fail twice, the second time after repair. I can’t get a refund on it as Gaugemaster three away the original packing that I returned it in which had the receipt in it. They’ve offered to repair it again,  why would I want a controller that’s failed twice repaired?

Anyway back on thread..

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5 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Yes, you're quite correct. The 'J70' does have a coreless motor, so feedback controllers should be avoided. We have no experience of using the 'J70' with trainset controllers but Rapido's latest North American products have placed great emphasis on not using trainset controllers with their products. Controller and motor technology has advanced considerably and it is necessary from time to time to upgrade to a new controller. I use a 20-year-old Gaugemaster (non-feedback) controller on my British layout and I have test run and run-in several 'J70s' with no problems. (CJL)

 

According to the Oxford N7 thread, though it is fitted with a coreless motor, it is also fitted with a sizeable capacitor and at least one post says it runs on a feedback controller without problems.  Assuming the theory is sound, could a similar approach be adopted with the J70?

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1 hour ago, Paul C said:

Thanks all for your help. Looks like it's time to get a better controller! 

The cost of a better controller will in most cases be less than that of an average price RTR loco. Since modern DC controllers really do perform better than the simple resistance-mat types of years ago, you will be benefitting every loco you own by investing.  

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3 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Hmmm.... what about DCC and coreless motors? DCC controllers all have back EMF as far as I know.

Presumably the decoder deals with the back EMF. Certainly, I have had one of the J70 samples fitted with a chip for some time and it has not shown any signs of a problem. It has run on several different DCC systems. Rapido has considerable experience with both DCC and coreless motors so I really don't think we need to resurrect the coreless motor debate yet again. (CJL)

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On 20/02/2019 at 10:27, dibber25 said:

Yes, you're quite correct. The 'J70' does have a coreless motor, so feedback controllers should be avoided. We have no experience of using the 'J70' with trainset controllers but Rapido's latest North American products have placed great emphasis on not using trainset controllers with their products. Controller and motor technology has advanced considerably and it is necessary from time to time to upgrade to a new controller. I use a 20-year-old Gaugemaster (non-feedback) controller on my British layout and I have test run and run-in several 'J70s' with no problems. (CJL)

 

The Bachmann trainset controller is fine, its output is almost pure DC. I've never had any problems with it and coreless motors or DCC fitted locos.

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59 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Presumably the decoder deals with the back EMF. Certainly, I have had one of the J70 samples fitted with a chip for some time and it has not shown any signs of a problem. It has run on several different DCC systems. Rapido has considerable experience with both DCC and coreless motors so I really don't think we need to resurrect the coreless motor debate yet again. (CJL)

I was just asking a question.
I had no idea there was a coreless motor debate.
Not everyone has the same experience of the internet as you, so please bear that in mind.
Thank you for the info anyway.

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10 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I was just asking a question.
I had no idea there was a coreless motor debate.
Not everyone has the same experience of the internet as you, so please bear that in mind.
Thank you for the info anyway.

Apologies for being snappy, it's just that the pros and cons of the coreless motor were discussed at some length earlier in this thread. 

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17 hours ago, Nile said:

 

The Bachmann trainset controller is fine, its output is almost pure DC. I've never had any problems with it and coreless motors or DCC fitted locos.

Agree with that - my layout is DCC and operated with an NCE Powercab, but I run everything in on DC on my test track to check all is well before I chip a model, and I use a Bachmann Trainset controller for this. I didn’t come across any issues doing this with the J70. 

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I too was extremely pleased with 68222.   So pleased that I immediately ordered 68225 on a Saturday which Kernow had delivered for me on the following Tuesday.   I operate a table-top circular layout from a Wisbech/Upwell fiddle yard serving Boyces Bridge and Outwell Basin depots.   I use a Gaugemaster Model D DC controller using a single supply feed in the fiddle yard.    Both locos have performed faultlessly straight from the box.   The maximum train length that allows passing at Boyces Bridge is loco+5 vans+brake.   I have also restored a passenger service using one of my two Heljan AC railbuses.   Two freights and a passenger are the maximum the layout can take at any one time.   Yes, it has created a superb operating/shunting module as well as the prefect running-in track!   The grandchildren have Toby and Mavis so the layout is designed as much for them as me.   Learning electrical circuitry, control, craft and organisational skills are the educational factors for them.   The track is Hornby sectional so can be modified further if ever really necessary.   I am now at the point of developing the scenery with help from the young ones!

 

Being so placed with both J70s, I am wanting a third to complete my stud.   68217 is the ideal one but it looks as though I will have to be content in ordering 68223 and consider a renumber!!!   Hope my concept will help other readers of this who have grandchildren with their Tobys and Mavis's and looking for a compromise!!!

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16 hours ago, coline33 said:

I too was extremely pleased with 68222.   So pleased that I immediately ordered 68225 on a Saturday which Kernow had delivered for me on the following Tuesday.   I operate a table-top circular layout from a Wisbech/Upwell fiddle yard serving Boyces Bridge and Outwell Basin depots.   I use a Gaugemaster Model D DC controller using a single supply feed in the fiddle yard.    Both locos have performed faultlessly straight from the box.   The maximum train length that allows passing at Boyces Bridge is loco+5 vans+brake.   I have also restored a passenger service using one of my two Heljan AC railbuses.   Two freights and a passenger are the maximum the layout can take at any one time.   Yes, it has created a superb operating/shunting module as well as the prefect running-in track!   The grandchildren have Toby and Mavis so the layout is designed as much for them as me.   Learning electrical circuitry, control, craft and organisational skills are the educational factors for them.   The track is Hornby sectional so can be modified further if ever really necessary.   I am now at the point of developing the scenery with help from the young ones!

 

Being so placed with both J70s, I am wanting a third to complete my stud.   68217 is the ideal one but it looks as though I will have to be content in ordering 68223 and consider a renumber!!!   Hope my concept will help other readers of this who have grandchildren with their Tobys and Mavis's and looking for a compromise!!!

 

Sounds great... you will have to share some photos of your layout. I am sure there will be many of us who would like to see more. The more W&U layouts in here the better!

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Hello,

has anyone already figured out where to place the builders plates, shed code plates and GER area code plates on the various locomotives? This is not always apparent in the photos. I am mainly interested in the 68222, 68225 and LNER 7126.

 

Aristoteles

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Final update on Toby for now, he's fully weathered!
 

Only weathered a handful of locos so rather happy with the finished result, not too heavy but certainly looks used.

I also opened a few of the windows, using the etches provided with the model - which are such a brilliant inclusion and an attest to the value for money you get with this model.
 

Going off of the Reverend Awdry's notes outside of the books and the timeline within the books, Toby was withdrawn from BR service in 1951 - the only J70 to be withdrawn that year was No.68221, one of three built in 1914 at Stratford, so logically - this is the "real" Toby, backed up by Awdry as well.
68221 was a very camera shy tram so when trying to figure out which mounting bracket to use I took a look at 68222 and 68223, the other two from the 1914 batch, to see what bracket type they had. 68222 had 3 bolts, 68223 had 2 bolts. With no evidence I've guessed and gone with the 3 bolted bracket as it seems to be the most common across all the J70s (from what I've seen at least) - need to touch the paint up a tad on this as the brass is shining through.
 

Sorry for that wall of text, but did a fair bit of looking up to try and get this just right!
 

As I said, I'm very happy with the final result and would love any feedback.
Thank you for reading,
Luke.

PS. For the gentleman who asked "how can he see without a face" - take a look at the final picture! Still needs painting but it's one of my own CAD designs, 3D printed and blu-taked on (never glue a face!!)

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DSC_1649.jpg

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I've checked my index of photographs of the W&U and I can't find any of 68221. That doesn't mean that it didn't run on the tramway, it just means it wasn't operating on a day when enthusiasts were present! The GER No 5 area codes were always in the middle above the windows at the smokebox end (the front). One, at least, remained in place throughout its career, presumably because no one could be bothered to remove it. Builders plate was on the right side (looking towards the front) but these had tended to go missing by B R days). Some were on the second plank from the top and some on the third. BR shed code was not usually carried but in one photo it appears as I placed it in the instructions, squeezed in between the various brackets etc below the right-hand front window. Door bump stops could be on the second or third plank up, but for toolmaking reasons we had to go with the third plank. (CJL)

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Slightly off topic, but I wonder if Rapido would consider making the side/safety chains available as an accessory, no doubt with MR's blessing?

 

This is not an idle question. I have struggled to find a source for these in 4mm.  Many pre-Grouping locomotives had them, for instance GN locos up to c.1905 and LSWR Adams classes, that seemed to retain them in the Drummond era.  I need a pair for the tender of my Stirling Single and some for my T1s, A12s etc!

 

I could happily fit side chains to most of my fleet and buy these by the bucket-load. 

 

Come to that, spare cow-catchers sold separately would be very useful on a number of projects!

 

Alternatively, if anyone has no use for the side chains or the cow-catchers without the tension lock coupling cut out, let me know! 

 

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On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 21:48, Martin S-C said:

Hmmm.... what about DCC and coreless motors? DCC controllers all have back EMF as far as I know.

It is the decoders that have the back-EMF function. On the better brands there are user settings to optimise the decoder output for coreless motor control. I would hope these work reliably in respect of both decoder and coreless motor, but have no long term experience of the combination, with only the Rapido/NRM Stirling single working beautifully since acquisition about a year ago.

 

I feel you are right to ask the question, it's one on my mind too. Will coreless motors perform as well as iron core motors in regular use over the long term using DCC control? I don't know, lack of experience! It will be twenty years before I know for sure. Looking around the internet I find similar doubts and questions elsewhere.

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