Model Rail/Rapido Trains GER/LNER 'J70' 0-6-0T 'Project Toby'

[micklner]

The full livery information for the first ten models is shown in the latest issue of Model Rail, together with the note reproduced in the comment by 'Edwardian' above. I don't have access to the other lines of communication which you mention. (CJL)

 

email address added to LNER Forum for everybodies info.

[Steamport Southport]

What I don't understand is why in other parts of the country, in towns and cities, and in other dockyards steam locomotives were allowed to run on and across public roads and areas without any side skirts or cow-catchers? Makes me wonder about whether the rules only applied in certain parts of the country? Other places seemed to have allowed locos to run in public spaces with only a flagman as a safety feature!

 

 

Alex

 

I think the need for side skirts and cowcatchers at Wisbech was more to do with livestock especially horses.

 

 

 

Jason

[Edwardian]

I think the need for side skirts and cowcatchers at Wisbech was more to do with livestock especially horses.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Built pursuant to the Tramways Act 1870s, following inclusion of the proposal in the GE's General Purposes legislation of 1880.

 

Although no dedicated Act of Parliament was required, I believe that the Board of Trade was free to impose requirements upon a line built pursuant to the 1870 Act.  In the case of the W&U I expect this included the familiar restrictions - governors to limit speed, bell, cow-catcher and skirts.

 

Either that or it was that grumpy copper who stopped Thomas.

 

Other lines might have been built under other legislative provisions, or, have been subjected to different restrictions by the BoT.  As a consequence, I should think a uniform and consistent result is not to be expected!

 

[dibber25]

Thank you to 31A for the explanation.

 

However, while I defer to those who know more about later periods, and, particularly, some of the other locations where the class worked, I would have thought that these locomotives were, throughout their lives, employed at locations where at least part of the running was on unfenced lines where skirting was required. 

 

As Dublodad says, the small diesel classes (and the later steam Sentinels) were supplied skirted to dock locations, were they not?  It makes little sense to remove the skirts for some areas and then put them back for others.  I would be genuinely interested in the extent of, and reasons for, skirtless running (Matron!) and wonder whether this was a relaxation of regulation or of standards in later years, or whether the locations where this was permitted were finite and closely prescribed.

 

Except in the final years under BR when standards seem to have slipped in many places, I find it hard to believe it was that common.  Clearly not unprecedented, but not necessarily that typical either.  Though, I note that Midland Mole has just posted to say he has spotted 3 LNER examples in Ipswich.

 

While happy to be educated further on the point, for now I remain doubtful that skirtless running was quite so common as the mix of proposed models suggests. But, mine is an unreliable impression, as I have never researched these periods and locations and am not pretending any great wealth of knowledge.

 

EDIT: Looking at the excellent GERS website, I concede to a preponderance of skirtless C53s!  Including 2 in GE livery (though perhaps they did not run 'naked' in those days): https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/locomotives/j-holden/c53

 

Another point I picked up on is the skirtless BR J70 pictured in Model Rail in charge of the train is on the W&U; the picture is available on Wiki (see below).

 

Happy to admit that skirtless running was probably more common than I had supposed.

 

The point, though, I suppose, is about selling the models commissioned. Far be it for me to mistrust the polls, but I really am not persuaded that enough modellers exist who will buy 1,000 BR versions without skirts, whereas under 500 modellers would buy a BR version running in skirts. 

 

And I am certainly not persuaded that Model Rail could not shift a minimum production run of blue & brown GE ones!

The J70s at Wisbech had to be unskirted when running over the main line to and from Stratford for works attention. I suspect that in later years there was a degree of 'relaxed attitude' to how quickly the skirts were refitted after return from Stratford. With regard to 68225 - from memory as all my reference books are currently with Rapido in Canada - 68225 was recalled to traffic due to diesel shunter failures when they were first introduced. If it had been out of use and intended to go to Stratford for breaking up, it may well have already had its side skirts removed. Would you then bother to put them back on for a couple of days? I think modellers who have a 'main line' layout and want a J70 will go for the skirtless version as being most appropriate. Only if you have a street-running section on your layout do you actually need the skirted version. (CJL)

[Edwardian]

The J70s at Wisbech had to be unskirted when running over the main line to and from Stratford for works attention. I suspect that in later years there was a degree of 'relaxed attitude' to how quickly the skirts were refitted after return from Stratford. With regard to 68225 - from memory as all my reference books are currently with Rapido in Canada - 68225 was recalled to traffic due to diesel shunter failures when they were first introduced. If it had been out of use and intended to go to Stratford for breaking up, it may well have already had its side skirts removed. Would you then bother to put them back on for a couple of days? I think modellers who have a 'main line' layout and want a J70 will go for the skirtless version as being most appropriate. Only if you have a street-running section on your layout do you actually need the skirted version. (CJL)

 

Thanks, that is interesting, and accords with the picture of one in GE days making the run from Stratford in 1912.

 

I'll settle for skirts, though, so long as the bits right above 'em are blue!

[dibber25]

Thanks, that is interesting, and accords with the picture of one in GE days making the run from Stratford in 1912.

 

I'll settle for skirts, though, so long as the bits right above 'em are blue!

I'll ask Mr. Lowery how much he'd charge to repaint one for you! He'd probably do it Rail blue with full yellow ends! (CJL)

Edited June 29, 2017 by dibber25

[Steamport Southport]

With NCB on the side to match the Sentinel?

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest Midland Mole]

I find that, in the phrase "received wisdom", only the first word tends to be true.  So I wouldn't worry about exhibiting independence of thought.

 

I take it you have emailed  modelrail@bauermedia.co.uk  and made your preferences known. 

 

Last time I exhibited independence of thought on here, I had my head bitten off by about 15 people....so I am loathed to stick my head above the parapet again!

Anyway, the point I was going to make here is pretty much the same point I made in the Oxford N7 thread a while back.

 

And yes I have sent an email and hope many others on here will be doing the same.

Alex

[Edwardian]

Last time I exhibited independence of thought on here, I had my head bitten off by about 15 people....so I am loathed to stick my head above the parapet again!

Anyway, the point I was going to make here is pretty much the same point I made in the Oxford N7 thread a while back.

 

And yes I have sent an email and hope many others on here will be doing the same.

Alex

 

Life here can be quite Hobbesian if you don't go with the flow.  I have found to my cost that certain product lines are simply no go areas (although that doesn't make them any better ), and it isn't just a case of dealing with what you see on the boards, either.

 

But, you have to adapt if you want the benefits of life on RMWeb, which is a great community.  Life isn't perfect.   I have chosen to try to rub along, but that doesn't yet mean removing my brain and filling it with froth every time I log-on.

[davknigh]

Dare one ask if the J70 will be a candidate for conversion to EM or P4? I suspect the skirtless version would be the better candidate. I only ask because a number of the newer engines have had stub axled wheels (Beattie well tank, J94) and these are a tad problematic.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Edwardian]

Dare one ask if the J70 will be a candidate for conversion to EM or P4? I suspect the skirtless version would be the better candidate. I only ask because a number of the newer engines have had stub axled wheels (Beattie well tank, J94) and these are a tad problematic.

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

Yes, if you want 500 of them

[dibber25]

Dare one ask if the J70 will be a candidate for conversion to EM or P4? I suspect the skirtless version would be the better candidate. I only ask because a number of the newer engines have had stub axled wheels (Beattie well tank, J94) and these are a tad problematic.

 

Cheers,

 

David

I don't know what type of axles are being used but I doubt very much if conversions of gauge will be easy. In a tiny locomotive like this, there are a lot of necessary compromises. Our original spec to Rapido was to produce a ready-to-run J70 in 'OO' gauge and that there should be no concessions to re-gauging if these in any way compromised an effective and powerful chassis. Both skirted and unskirted versions will have a six-wheel chassis, although doubtless a four-wheel 'motor bogie' arrangement under the skirted version would have made gauge conversion easier. (CJL)

[stewartingram]

Last time I exhibited independence of thought on here, I had my head bitten off by about 15 people....so I am loathed to stick my head above the parapet again!

Anyway, the point I was going to make here is pretty much the same point I made in the Oxford N7 thread a while back.

 

And yes I have sent an email and hope many others on here will be doing the same.

Alex

 

I would have done but for the coreless motor! Sorry.

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

I would have done but for the coreless motor! Sorry.

 

Stewart

[davknigh]

Yes, if you want 500 of them

Yes, well, Sutton did P4 class 24s as rtr. But seriously, I don't ever expect to see rtr P4 or EM in steam but if the manufacturer made the conversion job a little easier I'm not about to complain.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Guest Midland Mole]

I would have done but for the coreless motor! Sorry.

 

Stewart

 

Think about it like this though, by registering interest in a GER version you are not obligated to buy one but you are doing a favour to us poor, downtrodden pre-grouping fans!

Alex

[BG John]

Yes, well, Sutton did P4 class 24s as rtr. But seriously, I don't ever expect to see rtr P4 or EM in steam but if the manufacturer made the conversion job a little easier I'm not about to complain.

 

Cheers,

 

David

RTR EM steam locos were available decades ago! The EM Gauge Society converted a batch of Airfix GWR 61xx Prairies. I've got one!

[Edwardian]

RTR EM steam locos were available decades ago! The EM Gauge Society converted a batch of Airfix GWR 61xx Prairies. I've got one!

 

And one day soon, John, you'll have a model railway to go with it!

[davknigh]

RTR EM steam locos were available decades ago! The EM Gauge Society converted a batch of Airfix GWR 61xx Prairies. I've got one!

Yes and the Scalefour Society did up some engines for an easy conversion as well, but I'm talking about straight from the manufacturer like Hornby, Bachmann or Heljan. Maybe DJM might surprise us or Rapido but I'm not holding my breath...

 

Cheers,

 

David

[MarkSG]

I see these are now available for pre-order. One thing mildly puzzles me - the "MR-203 Rapido LNER Class J70 Steam Locomotive number 68225 in BR livery with early emblem and weathered finish with no skirts" is illustrated by a prototype photo that includes cowcatchers but no side skirts, while the "MR-204 Rapido LNER Class J70 Steam Locomotive number 68226 in BR livery with BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering with no skirts" is illustrated by a CGI photo that shows no cowcatchers either.

 

Can anyone from MR or Rapido clarify whether "no skirts" means no cowcatchers as well, and thus the early emblem weathered version (MR-203) will not have them?

 

This isn't going to put me off ordering one (or two!), but I'd quite like to know precisely what it is that I'm ordering before I do.

[Steamport Southport]

We were discussing this earlier in the thread. I think the description and the photograph is a bit misleading as they don't seem to match.

 

 

Jason

[Guest Midland Mole]

I think the need for side skirts and cowcatchers at Wisbech was more to do with livestock especially horses.

 

 

 

Jason

 

I would imagine you are right, and that is probably why the ones working at Yarmouth and Ipswich were found with skirts missing sometimes.

Alex

[dibber25]

I see these are now available for pre-order. One thing mildly puzzles me - the "MR-203 Rapido LNER Class J70 Steam Locomotive number 68225 in BR livery with early emblem and weathered finish with no skirts" is illustrated by a prototype photo that includes cowcatchers but no side skirts, while the "MR-204 Rapido LNER Class J70 Steam Locomotive number 68226 in BR livery with BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering with no skirts" is illustrated by a CGI photo that shows no cowcatchers either.

 

Can anyone from MR or Rapido clarify whether "no skirts" means no cowcatchers as well, and thus the early emblem weathered version (MR-203) will not have them?

 

This isn't going to put me off ordering one (or two!), but I'd quite like to know precisely what it is that I'm ordering before I do.

The coloured artwork as supplied by Rapido shows the model as intended. The photos may well be the nearest we've got to what we need to illustrate. Basically 'No skirts' means stripped for main line running, without cowcatchers or side plates. Partial skirts means with cowcatchers but no side plates. I understand at least part of the cowcatcher will be detachable to cater for those who use/do not use the NEM pockets. We can't cater for all the many variations of how much sideplating was removed. Some pictures show bits removed and bits left in place, particularly around the step areas. Similarly, some of the tiny details such as the 'doorstops' differed in position from one loco to the next and we've had to take a 'typical' approach, otherwise every loco would require a different set of tools. (CJL)

[MarkSG]

OK, that makes sense.

 

Now, to find an excuse to have one of them pulling a warwell

[rapidobill]

The coloured artwork as supplied by Rapido shows the model as intended. The photos may well be the nearest we've got to what we need to illustrate. Basically 'No skirts' means stripped for main line running, without cowcatchers or side plates. Partial skirts means with cowcatchers but no side plates. I understand at least part of the cowcatcher will be detachable to cater for those who use/do not use the NEM pockets. We can't cater for all the many variations of how much sideplating was removed. Some pictures show bits removed and bits left in place, particularly around the step areas. Similarly, some of the tiny details such as the 'doorstops' differed in position from one loco to the next and we've had to take a 'typical' approach, otherwise every loco would require a different set of tools. (CJL)

What he said... ;>)

 

Actually, we're tooling two different cowcatchers - one with an opening for the NEM pocket/coupler and the other solid as per prototype. They will be removable and interchangeable.

 

As has been noted, there will be two variants on the skirts. One will include all skirts, the other no skirts. Because of clearance issues behind the skirts on the model the skirted version will be missing some of the smaller valve gear components, This will not be apparent on the finished model, but does mean that the skirts are not really removable. You will need to order the version that you want (skirted or unskirted)  - or one of each! ;>)

 

Bill 

Edited June 30, 2017 by rapidobill