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The irony of the resurgence of pre-group modelling is that of course there are very few people around now who can remember that time. When I started my modelling career back in the 80s, there were a fair number of modellers in their 70s recreating their pre-group youth in the same way modellers today recapture their youth in the Transition and BR Blue eras, whilst going back further we had the likes of Jack Nelson and WS Norris.

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Just of interest, does Dodo command a premium over the other two versions of Hornby's Peckett?  if so, why?

 

Regards,

 

Paul

 

Interestingly both Dodo and the H&P sold out first.

 

The H&P is probably the most gorgeous of the 3 and is collectors' heaven, though, strictly, it's pretty useless unless you are modelling a biscuit factory in Reading.  That said, I have seen one pictured on RMWeb weathered and with the H&P lettering stripped, leaving a loco with an attractive livery that your factory/colliery can claim as its own.  Mind you, I don't see many members of the H&P Owners Club doing that.

 

The Dodo is probably the second most attractive of the 3, but is also the most practical,  It is finished in what Hornby believes it has established as Peckett's works livery, i.e. the default livery in which all Pecketts of the period would have been delivered in case where the purchaser had not specified a livery of its own.  This means that it is much more flexible and only a name change away from being any Peckett that might have been delivered to your micro-industrial, though I suspect that many of us will not even bother to do that.

 

So, two very pretty locos.  One the ultimate collectors'/Rule No.1 loco and the other the most versatile.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say the desirability of the H&P would pip Dodo, but, as they both sold out, we will probably never know.     

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So I must be stupid or something but why doesn't Hornby just make some more or make it available full time. I just don't get this limited edition loco thing.

 

   If I want to buy a hoover or a fridge or TV I just go and buy one, I don't pre order one and hope I'm one of the lucky ones because Dyson or who ever have gone to all the trouble to design tool up and make it then only build a thousand. 

 

  It becomes part of there range and stays there until advancements in technology or newer models are designed how ever many years later.

 

   Sorry I just don't get it

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I bought Dodo, pre ordered in fact and was let down by Hornby and forced to go find one elsewhere, because it is in the standard livery. It'll be getting a new name and voila, it's suitable for my reservoir construction layout. (Which is still off in the future!). I didn't particularly want a Peckett, it was only when I saw just how high quality Hornby had managed to make it that I became interested. I've pre ordered next year's planned Lilleshall one in black too as I want the chassis to put under a Manning Wardle body. 

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So I must be stupid or something but why doesn't Hornby just make some more or make it available full time. I just don't get this limited edition loco thing.

 

   If I want to buy a hoover or a fridge or TV I just go and buy one, I don't pre order one and hope I'm one of the lucky ones because Dyson or who ever have gone to all the trouble to design tool up and make it then only build a thousand. 

 

  It becomes part of there range and stays there until advancements in technology or newer models are designed how ever many years later.

 

   Sorry I just don't get it

None of the Pecketts were marketed as limited editions and there would be nothing to prevent Hornby having more made.

 

However, models are produced in finite batches and, because Hornby production is contracted out to various factories in China, repeat runs can take a long time to arrange.

 

Having sold the first lot, Hornby cannot be certain how much unfulfilled demand remains, so runs in different liveries may be a safer bet for them.

 

"Fridge X" or "Television Y" will be produced in numbers that would exceed Hornby's most popular product hundreds of times over, so it's not really a valid comparison.

 

Hornby used to work a bit the way you describe when they made the models themselves with the result that the same model with the same number and name was all you could get for a decade or more. In that respect, I far prefer the modern way. In reality, the market for British outline model trains is so small in global industry terms that it barely justifies the term "Mass Produced".

 

John

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So I must be stupid or something but why doesn't Hornby just make some more or make it available full time. I just don't get this limited edition loco thing.

 

   If I want to buy a hoover or a fridge or TV I just go and buy one, I don't pre order one and hope I'm one of the lucky ones because Dyson or who ever have gone to all the trouble to design tool up and make it then only build a thousand. 

 

  It becomes part of there range and stays there until advancements in technology or newer models are designed how ever many years later.

 

   Sorry I just don't get it

 

Clearly you are not stupid, but whether a particular livery or variant is ever made available again is doubtful.  For instance, Hornby has not made more Tintagel Castles in crested livery.  This was the first GW variant of their newly tooled castle and it fair flew off the shelf.  Manufacturers these days seem averse to reproducing exactly the same option offered previously.

 

This must be considered true even in the case of models that were heavily oversubscribed.  I know a lot is said about Chinese factory production slots etc, but what is the commercial sense of Bachmann failing to make more SE&CR Cs in fully lined livery?

 

Yet they never have, not even with a different number.

 

 

I bought Dodo, pre ordered in fact and was let down by Hornby and forced to go find one elsewhere, because it is in the standard livery. It'll be getting a new name and voila, it's suitable for my reservoir construction layout. (Which is still off in the future!). I didn't particularly want a Peckett, it was only when I saw just how high quality Hornby had managed to make it that I became interested. I've pre ordered next year's planned Lilleshall one in black too as I want the chassis to put under a Manning Wardle body. 

 

I agree that, beyond the works livered Dodo, the value of the model lies in what else can be done with it.  A new livery is an obvious one, and some physical changes can be made to reflect the detail variations in the class.

 

Like you, I look hungrily at the announced black version with the thought 'how many other small industrial classes is this chassis good for?".

 

EDIT: An H Class MW?

 

I would no doubt entertain similar thoughts concerning DJM's Hudswell Clarke, assuming it is ever produced.

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I was attracted to the Peckett, despite having no need of one (even for the corrupt value of "need" most of us seem to employ), but delayed because building in P4 I wanted to know how easy it would be to convert. The result was that I was too late. I would guess that from now on the liveries and build variants will be more modern because this is where the mass market is: the fancy early stuff was there to make a marketing splash, to hit the collector market, and to test the waters for the more modern (boring?) variant which will be the main seller.

 

The marketing was obvously working, which is why I thought I would "need" one, but I don't, as pretty well everything on my slowly developing project is kitbuilt, or heavily-modified-kit almost-scratch built. Thank goodness for limited production runs or I would have had to spend at least £100 (when I've saved up my "pocket money") that I can usefully use elsewhere.  

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Interestingly both Dodo and the H&P sold out first.

 

The H&P is probably the most gorgeous of the 3 and is collectors' heaven, though, strictly, it's pretty useless unless you are modelling a biscuit factory in Reading.  That said, I have seen one pictured on RMWeb weathered and with the H&P lettering stripped, leaving a loco with an attractive livery that your factory/colliery can claim as its own.  Mind you, I don't see many members of the H&P Owners Club doing that.

 

The Dodo is probably the second most attractive of the 3, but is also the most practical,  It is finished in what Hornby believes it has established as Peckett's works livery, i.e. the default livery in which all Pecketts of the period would have been delivered in case where the purchaser had not specified a livery of its own.  This means that it is much more flexible and only a name change away from being any Peckett that might have been delivered to your micro-industrial, though I suspect that many of us will not even bother to do that.

 

So, two very pretty locos.  One the ultimate collectors'/Rule No.1 loco and the other the most versatile.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say the desirability of the H&P would pip Dodo, but, as they both sold out, we will probably never know.     

Thanks Edwardian.  I guess the ex-works livery of Dodo explains why it sold out in my local model shop so quickly.

 

Regards,

 

Paul

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Is it pre-grouping becoming popular, or just quality locos in pretty liveries, that appeal to collectors, and modellers of later periods who can't resist temptation? How many buyers who will actually use them, are going to run them on a layout set in the location and period that the model represents?

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John,

 

I think you are pretty much spot on about collectors. Perhaps we should think of them as modelling magpies, attracted by nice shiny things.

 

I have seen little evidence that the Bachmann G2 did anything to promote interest in modelling the LNWR and I expect the Coal Tank will be the same. Unless the RTR manufacturers produce some matching stock, many of these attractive pre-group locos will be bought just because they look nice and are different.

 

There are plenty of kits available to produce pre-group locos and rolling stock, from plastic through to etched, but that isn't what railway modelling is about for many enthusiasts.

 

Jol

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Meanwhile, if I suddenly get an urge to build "The Biscuit Factory", a layout I started designing when I was tempted to buy an H&P Peckett, I'll be out of luck. Collectors win, modellers lose :(. Of course I could have a go a repainting whatever version comes along next, as people used to do once upon a time, but I doubt if it would stand comparison with what the collectors are hoarding.

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I know this has been thrashed to death elsewhere, but I find it bizarre that you would collect for static display model trains that are manifestly inaccurate in one direction (the running gear and track) and grossly compromised because of the need for a motor and pick ups that are not needed for display purposes. I have no problem with the concept of running 00 layouts because that is what is manufactured, and is easiest to set up and run without developing model engineering skills.  I have a couple of locos that I will build but very certainely never run, so no need for all that motor/gearbox/pickup stuff, and I'm fairly sure that they will be built to dead scale standard when it comes to the wheels and track.

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Sorry to spoil your fun. But it's just a placeholder.

 

 

 

You create the page and then put the price in at an amount that nobody with any sense would pay.

 

When you've got stock then you change the price accordingly. He's probably expecting stock from somewhere.

 

 

 

Whilst not the cheapest shop on eBay, he was selling them for a lot cheaper the other week.

 

 

 

Jason

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Is there anything that actually makes this loco "pre-grouping"?

 

As an industrial tank, it could have run in that condition, perhaps with a bit of weathering, right through to BR days.

 

The listing shows it as being suitable for the period 1948-1956.

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If you really must have a Peckett there is (or was) a 4 mm kit for an X class 0-6-0ST. Mine is still awaiting building in EM, the problem having been finding 4 ft H section wheels.

I am not familiar with the Hornby model's prototype. Did that have h section wheels and if so does the model?

Jonathan

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So I must be stupid or something but why doesn't Hornby just make some more or make it available full time. I just don't get this limited edition loco thing.

 

   If I want to buy a hoover or a fridge or TV I just go and buy one, I don't pre order one and hope I'm one of the lucky ones because Dyson or who ever have gone to all the trouble to design tool up and make it then only build a thousand. 

 

  It becomes part of there range and stays there until advancements in technology or newer models are designed how ever many years later.

 

   Sorry I just don't get it

 

Ah, but that's because you're not also buying dresses from high street chains (not that I am...) - they suffer from just the same problems of inflexible Asian production slots and are often caught out but the sudden popularity of a particular item and are unable to respond to demand.

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