Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Re the Midland/ ex- Midland locos, did I miss the 3F in Midland livery?

 

 

Oops, looks like I mis-spoke. It looks as if only the 4F has been issued in Midland livery, as 3848 [31-883]. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Compound2632

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Oops, looks like I mis-spoke. It looks as if only the 4F has been issued in Midland livery, as 3848 [31-883]. 

 

I thought they had as well. Never mind. 

 

 

 

Jason

[Izzy]

I take it that from the use of traction tyres on one of the driven wheels that the bogie has current collection , split axle perhaps?

 

I have always fitted the latter to all the 2-4-0/0-4-2  & 4-4-0/0-4-4 types I have made in the past. Is particularly useful with tank engines when running on DC rather than DCC with a stay-alive.

 

Izzy

 

 

[GWR8700]

For those who don’t want traction tyres, I hope that Brassmasters continue their easichas range for this particular loco, as they have done for the 1F, 3F and 4F.

 

Other than that, it looks fantastic and I hope it is as good, if not better than the existing Midland engines, produced by Bachmann.

[PenrithBeacon]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

...

 

Wouldn't mind tracking down one of these ( to re-badge to S&DJR...)

 

Rob. 

I thought there were differences between the MR and S&DJR 3Fs

Cheers

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I thought there were differences between the MR and S&DJR 3Fs

Cheers

 

The S&DJR 3Fs started out as standard Johnson 0-6-0s, the first five being built at Derby in 1896 just after Derby had built a small batch for Midland use, the second five coming in 1902 on the tail end of a batch built by Neilsons. All were thus identical to the 345 Midland engines of Class M. All ten were rebuilt with G7 boilers between 1920 and 1925; although this work was done at Highbridge, to quote Bradley & Milton, "Apart from the sanding arrangements and mechanical lubricators these Highbridge G7 rebuilds bore a remarkable resemblance to the genuine Derby article and exhibited none of the vagaries which the Midland & Great Northern contrived to introduce with its Melton Constable G7 rebuilds of its Johnson 0-6-0s."

 

[D. Bradley and D. Milton, Somerset and Dorset Locomotive History (David & Charles, 1973).]

Edited December 14, 2019 by Compound2632

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The traction tyre is an undesireable 'feature' in my book, and it was a happy day when it generally disappeared from RTR OO: Bachmann being the manufacturer who took the lead in this in the UK market. (I may be wrong, but I believe this is the first use of traction tyres on a newly tooled Bachmann OO product, after near 30 years of metal driven wheels.

At best misleading...

Bachmann has been using tyres for years, just not UK outline.

Liliput locos in the German market have tyres, loads of spare parts, no complaints.

With a 30 year plus track record of success in this market, its not as if they don't know what they are doing.
I’m sorry but its British snobbery, rest of the world has no issue with tyres, and its not just Bachmann, its industry norm.

 

its kind of strange seeing Lima locos from the 1990’s as still in the range of the strongest pulling locomotives in 00 thirty years later...

 

I do think the UK market should try it, Hornbys elastic bands from 1980 really are in history, as has light weight models and models with plastic wheels and limited pickups. But if the North can vote blue, after 40 years, perhaps they can vote blue here too and try something new.
 

I think its a good thing and those fretting about pickups on the tyred driving wheel will probably find the other 6 wheels will have pickups, weight will be balanced, modern metallurgy etc, . I’m guessing the decision is a compromise of weighted space giving way to DCC support... for those without DCC may be able to fill the gap. At the end of the day weight can only do so much.

 

personally, my Bachmann Manors have tyres, ive acquired buying up rotted mainline 53xx’s and taking the tyred wheel and fitting it to my Manors... they are better for it.

 

I have a multi-cultural fleet of locos from 50+ countries from my travels, and spares are obviously niche from some countries..(Hungarian,Japanese, Korean, Brazilian made models come to mind), yet in my 4 decades collecting ive never yet needed to try order replacement tyres, to see how hard it actually is...which says something to me and my experience, that would be counter to the allegedly “more informed” comments on here... despite the apparent absence of the said offending tyres from UK rtr for nigh on 3 decades that they draw on for their experience.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by adb968008

[NHY 581]

2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I thought there were differences between the MR and S&DJR 3Fs

Cheers

 

 

As far as I'm concerned a passable representation could be made with the addition of extra sandboxes and a set of Ramsbottom safety valves to the Bachmann 3F. 

 

But we are going of topic.....

 

 

Rob. 

[Ian J.]

As far as traction tyres are concerned, they're not a deal breaker for me, but I far prefer not to have them as it's not possible to replicate wheel slip with them fitted. As I would likely only buy one of these locos (the early BR logo one as an S&DJR representative), I can see myself trying to source a replacement wheel set and seeing how it would or would not perform without the tyres.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

...I have a multi-cultural fleet of locos from 50+ countries from my travels, and spares are obviously niche from some countries..(Hungarian,Japanese, Korean, Brazilian made models come to mind), yet in my 4 decades collecting ive never yet needed to try order replacement tyres, to see how hard it actually is...which says something to me and my experience, that would be counter to the allegedly “more informed” comments on here... despite the apparent absence of the said offending tyres from UK rtr for nigh on 3 decades that they draw on for their experience...

In my case it is a preference. I am quite aware of good traction tyres used in HO - the translucent tyre long found on Rivarossi product that I have would be my top pick, discreet and effective, non wear out and non-dirting - but with weight it is not necessary. North American HO tends to the weight formula too. And at bottom of my preference is the fact that real trains are metal wheel on metal rail. Let's leave the rubber tyres to the Paris Metro, within that polity we are shortly exiting, eh?

[Buhar]

I was intrigued by St Endoc's comment about conductive fillers and found this

https://www.toolstation.com/big-boy-metal-filler/p56231

also available at Screwfix.

 

Described a "partially conductive" it appears to be readily sanded and has a metallic finish.  The metal particles are aluminium.  I can't see any comments about its resistance (my search was futile) but it's bound to be better than rubber!  My fears about traction tyres is their effect on track cleanliness not the pick-up or pulling power of any loco fitted with them.

 

Alan

[Zunnan]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

At best misleading...

Bachmann has been using tyres for years, just not UK outline. including widely through the Farish range.

Liliput locos in the German market have tyres, loads of spare parts, no complaints.

With a 30 year plus track record of success in this market, its not as if they don't know what they are doing.
I’m sorry but its British snobbery, rest of the world has no issue with tyres, and its not just Bachmann, its industry norm.

 

 

Minor correction, and a caveat to go with it.

 

Those tyres fitted to the Farish range I find generally speaking to have a working life of around 18-24 months; longer if models are used less, but mine get regular use at the club and exhibitions. Every single Farish locomotive I have with them fitted has shed tyres, the worst offenders being the tender drive units. Replacements are available, but I find they are not exactly concentric or consistent and changing them usually results in a marked change in running characteristics and a bit of trial and error to get the best out of them. British snobbery doesn't lead to a 5MT oscillating or kangarooing down the track because the best replacement tyre in the packet has a discrepancy in its thickness or doesn't fit into the machined groove all the way around the wheel; naff tyres does though. And that leads to my concerns, the tyres and replacements supplied for the Farish range; will the 1P end up in the same boat? And here is another chalked up from painful experience...could it end up being another Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 14xx with the trailing wheels too softly sprung and the model rocking in and out of reliable contact on the tyre? Fixable with a decent stay alive, but that wouldn't comfort DC users. I don't see it as snobbery, more a case of past experiences leading to very valid concerns; which hopefully will not come to fruition here.

[Jub45565]

20 hours ago, GWR8700 said:

For those who don’t want traction tyres, I hope that Brassmasters continue their easichas range for this particular loco, as they have done for the 1F, 3F and 4F.

 

I can't answer this directly - but the Rumney Models chassis kit available to suit the craftsman kit will be having a variant produced for the Bachmann body.

[GWR8700]

1 hour ago, Jub45565 said:

 

I can't answer this directly - but the Rumney Models chassis kit available to suit the craftsman kit will be having a variant produced for the Bachmann body.

I wasn’t aware of that, but that’s great news.

[Portchullin Tatty]

On 14/12/2019 at 16:58, GWR8700 said:

For those who don’t want traction tyres, I hope that Brassmasters continue their easichas range for this particular loco, as they have done for the 1F, 3F and 4F.

 

Other than that, it looks fantastic and I hope it is as good, if not better than the existing Midland engines, produced by Bachmann.

 

Suspect not; Rumney Models have done a recent one:

 

http://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/steam-locomotive-chassis

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Portchullin Tatty

[Paul.Uni]

RRP announced as £149.95

[Butler Henderson]

2 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

RRP announced as £149.95

So cheaper than a Hornby M7 which now has a RRP of £155.99

[Jub45565]

On 30/11/2019 at 15:51, PenrithBeacon said:

Looks like a Stanier chimney to me.

 

Does anyone know of a source for these chimneys? Alan Gibson Gibson don't appear to, & nor do 247, from what I've seen. Gibson do the Deeley variety.

[Compound2632]

The Craftsman Johnson chimney for their 1532 Class 0-4-4T kit is very good but, I fear, NLA.

[Jub45565]

On 23/02/2020 at 22:09, Compound2632 said:

The Craftsman Johnson chimney for their 1532 Class 0-4-4T kit is very good but, I fear, NLA.

 

Yes, I currently have one of those fitted to my Craftsman kit, and it is a nice casting - but from the views in photos it looks like the Stanier chimney is taller.  Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be covered in the drawings in the wild swan book, so it is all down to comparing angles and perspectives on photos!

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Jub45565 said:

 

Yes, I currently have one of those fitted to my Craftsman kit, and it is a nice casting - but from the views in photos it looks like the Stanier chimney is taller.  Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be covered in the drawings in the wild swan book, so it is all down to comparing angles and perspectives on photos!

 

Beware too that even for the Johnson chimneys, it's a bit of a minefield. Midland Engines No. 1 reproduces GA drawings for the non-condensing 1833 class non-condensing engines (3'7" tall chimney), 1833 class condensing engines (3'1" chimney, bringing the overall height down to a nominal value of 12' 5 13/16", presumably to clear the Metropolitan Widened Lines loading gauge of, I believe, 12'8"), and 2228 class, condensing and non-condensing (2'10" chimney; allowing for the boiler being pitched 3 3/4" higher, the overall height of 12' 6 9/16" is within the Met gauge). The pitch of the boiler of the 1532 class (which Bachmann are modelling) was the same as the 1833 class, so was there the same distinction in chimney height between condensing and non-condensing engines? @Dave Hunt?

[Paul.Uni]

These are currently listed as an August release on the Bachmann website.

[Dave Hunt]

On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:41, Compound2632 said:

 

Beware too that even for the Johnson chimneys, it's a bit of a minefield. Midland Engines No. 1 reproduces GA drawings for the non-condensing 1833 class non-condensing engines (3'7" tall chimney), 1833 class condensing engines (3'1" chimney, bringing the overall height down to a nominal value of 12' 5 13/16", presumably to clear the Metropolitan Widened Lines loading gauge of, I believe, 12'8"), and 2228 class, condensing and non-condensing (2'10" chimney; allowing for the boiler being pitched 3 3/4" higher, the overall height of 12' 6 9/16" is within the Met gauge). The pitch of the boiler of the 1532 class (which Bachmann are modelling) was the same as the 1833 class, so was there the same distinction in chimney height between condensing and non-condensing engines? @Dave Hunt?

 

Stephen, the overall height quoted for the five condensing 1532 class would indicate that when they were built the chimney height was the same as the 1833s. After they were withdrawn from the Widened Lines traffic, chimney heights varied and reference to photographs is really the only way to discover what a particular engine had at any one time.

 

As a matter of interest, all the Midland's Widened Lines traffic - passenger, goods and mineral - was hauled by condensing 0-4-4Ts until the advent of condensing 0-6-0Ts. 

 

Dave

Edited March 1, 2020 by Dave Hunt
Pore speling

[3737]

On 14/12/2019 at 21:48, Ian J. said:

As far as traction tyres are concerned, they're not a deal breaker for me, but I far prefer not to have them as it's not possible to replicate wheel slip with them fitted. As I would likely only buy one of these locos (the early BR logo one as an S&DJR representative), I can see myself trying to source a replacement wheel set and seeing how it would or would not perform without the tyres.

 

What about an extra wheelset without tyres?

 

Leen.

[Compound2632]

Alan Gibson do the Johnson 3'4" chimney as a brass lost wax casting, their item 4M614. Presumably this was the chimney from the Class M 0-6-0 kit. I don't know what is currently available by way of a 3'7" chimney.