RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted May 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: To some degree, yes, and certainly for me personally. I've never been entirely sure if S&D numbered locos sell well directly because of that or if it's down to being widely represented in published photos, which is a slightly looser link that also makes life easier for the manufacturer. Members of elderly classes that remained in service beyond 1955 also seem to have a broader appeal. However, 58072 wasn't an especially late survivor; being withdrawn in October 1956 and scrapped shortly afterwards. IIRC, the last of its classmates didn't go until 1960. John Indeed 58086 languished at Bath for some time and was photographed numerous times and might be more iconic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said: Members of elderly classes that remained in service beyond 1955 also seem to have a broader appeal. However, 58072 wasn't an especially late survivor; being withdrawn in October 1956 and scrapped shortly afterwards. IIRC, the last of its classmates didn't go until 1960. 1 hour ago, Blandford1969 said: Indeed 58086 languished at Bath for some time and was photographed numerous times and might be more iconic 58086 wasn't a 1532 Class locomotive but a member of the 2228 Class with higher-pitched boiler and taller tanks and bunker. 58072 was officially withdrawn in the 11th 4-week period of 1956, having been one of the last two rebuilt with Belpaire boiler in 1951, along with 58051, which was also withdrawn at the same time. They were not, however, the last survivors, 58066 going in the 10th 4-week period of 1958 and 58065 in the 11th 4-week period of 1959. Both those locomotives had been rebuilt with Belpaire boilers in the twenties. Last allocations were 71J, 22B, 20C, and 17B respectively. 58086 was indeed the last of the 2228 Class to be withdrawn, in the 8th 4-week period of 1960, also-rans being 58085 (4th period of 1959), 58083 (10th period of 1957) and 58091 (11th period of 1956). Last allocations were 71J, 36E, 9D, and 33A respectively. So that's five Johnson 0-4-4Ts that outlived 58072, only two of which were members of the same class. How much actual use any of these engines had after 1956 (or even before) is open to question. These are official withdrawal dates, taken from Engine History cards and tabulated in S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002) Table 6F, pp. 114-5. Allocations are from Table 6E, pp. 110-111. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2020 Thanks, being a fan of the S&D from the "Southern" rather than the "Midland" end, I wasn't aware of there being more than one class of Johnson 0-4-4T. I've dug out my ABC reprint for 1955/6 which lists the dimensional differences. Almost as big a minefield as the (to me) more familiar ex-LSWR M7 0-4-4Ts, though those offer the "added delight" of engines that vary in appearance whilst being similar in nearly all mechanical aspects barring the obvious one of long/short frames.... John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 58066 certainly got some use in the middle of 1958 - there are several photos of it, and references to it, when Manningham borrowed it from Royston. Presumably they had a shortage of push pull fitted locos at the time, and it was used on the Worth Valley but also to Ilkley during this spell. I'm quite happy if they don't do this one though. I'm currently in the process of trying to at least match the quality of the Bachmann ejector (as used on their 1F, and applicable to some but not all 1Ps)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: Thanks, being a fan of the S&D from the "Southern" rather than the "Midland" end, I wasn't aware of there being more than one class of Johnson 0-4-4T. I've dug out my ABC reprint for 1955/6 which lists the dimensional differences. Six distinct classes, if one counts his Great Eastern 134 Class and of course the S&DJR Avonsides - all ancient history by the fifties. Edited May 17, 2020 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted May 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 11:09, Compound2632 said: 58086 wasn't a 1532 Class locomotive but a member of the 2228 Class with higher-pitched boiler and taller tanks and bunker. 5111. Ah, what was the difference in pitch and tank height? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted May 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2020 There were also differences between the batch built for the S&D by Vulcan in 1883 and the earlier Avonsides. Going back to Bachmann's model, the only one they could release as an S&D livery is 54, formerly 1305. They could do it in Midland Crimson lettered and numbered as S&DJR 54 as supplied to the railway but the preferred option ( mine ) is full Prussian Blue. Rob. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Blandford1969 said: Ah, what was the difference in pitch and tank height? The boiler centre line was 3¾" higher at 7'3" above rail level and the tanks and bunker were 3" taller. The cab side sheets were correspondingly shorter, giving the cab a noticeably squatter look; the original Johnson chimney was also 3" shorter (on both the 1532 and 2228 Classes, the condensing engines originally had chimneys 3" shorter than the non-condensing engines, to clear the Met Widened Lines loading gauge, but between chimney replacements and allocation away from London, this distinction was lost). Edited May 19, 2020 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 On the traction tyres issue, I expect Alan Gibson Workshop to fairly quick off the mark in offering replacement wheelsets sized to the Bachmann axles. These are intended for conversions to EM but should be a push-fit (with the usual provisos about fitting AG wheels) on the existing axles. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsalDan Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Buhar said: On the traction tyres issue, I expect Alan Gibson Workshop to fairly quick off the mark in offering replacement wheelsets sized to the Bachmann axles. These are intended for conversions to EM but should be a push-fit (with the usual provisos about fitting AG wheels) on the existing axles. Alan I hope so. I wonder if Brassmasters or Rumney Models will do a chassis too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 According to Rails, the model will have an extra wheelset with traction tyres. No work involved, which is good news for those of us who cannot stand the things. I might be tempted to get a sound version. Fitting a decoder seems to have helped a lot of models with wretched coreless motors. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 Hum... the chimney's changed again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, No Decorum said: According to Rails, the model will have an extra wheelset with traction tyres. No work involved, which is good news for those of us who cannot stand the things. I might be tempted to get a sound version. Fitting a decoder seems to have helped a lot of models with wretched coreless motors. Just found that. Highly detailed Midland Railway Crimson Lake livery I hope not, I was looking at a black one. https://railsofsheffield.com/products/40877/Bachmann-31-741sf-oo-gauge-mr-1532-1p-tank-1303-lms-black-original-dcc-sound Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsalDan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Good news about the optional traction tyres and sound enhancements. I'm confused by the chimney on the Midland variant. It appeared to be based on a photo of it at Buxton with a Deeley smokebox door, but now it's got a Johnson chimney which differs from the photo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, MonsalDan said: Good news about the optional traction tyres and sound enhancements. I'm confused by the chimney on the Midland variant. It appeared to be based on a photo of it at Buxton with a Deeley smokebox door, but now it's got a Johnson chimney which differs from the photo. Cause people wouldn't stop taking the mickeky about the chimney on the midland railway model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, MonsalDan said: I'm confused by the chimney on the Midland variant. It appeared to be based on a photo of it at Buxton with a Deeley smokebox door, but now it's got a Johnson chimney which differs from the photo. In the photo taken at Buxton c. 1909, 1273 (old 1539) has a Johnson chimney [S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002) p. 90]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The sound and standard versions of the MR livery on the Rails site have different chimneys and they both have the same running number! Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Buhar said: The sound and standard versions of the MR livery on the Rails site have different chimneys and they both have the same running number! Alan I suspect - hope - that the chimney on all both versions of the MR liveried model has been undergoing some last-minute refinement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsalDan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Compound2632 said: In the photo taken at Buxton c. 1909, 1273 (old 1539) has a Johnson chimney [S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002) p. 90]. I've not got that book but is it the same photo as this one here? https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-steam/Bachmann-1532-class-johnson-1p/Bachmann-31-740-1532-class-johnson-1p-0-4-4t-n1273-in-midland-railway-crimson-lake-livery/ And is that a Johnson chimney so the updated chimney is correct? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, MonsalDan said: I've not got that book but is it the same photo as this one here? https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-steam/Bachmann-1532-class-johnson-1p/Bachmann-31-740-1532-class-johnson-1p-0-4-4t-n1273-in-midland-railway-crimson-lake-livery/ And is that a Johnson chimney so the updated chimney is correct? Yes, and yes, so long as it's the right Johnson chimney! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 03:27, NHY 581 said: 58072 is a must for me and will look right at home on my small section of the S&D. I'll also go for the LMS black livery. They look the part. As I've said before, Bachmann do capture the look of the Midland locos and seem to have cornered the market. Rob. It would be nice if they made a Kirtley Goods or something of that vintage, but there’s probably little market for such a thing. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, Florence Locomotive Works said: It would be nice if they made a Kirtley Goods or something of that vintage, but there’s probably little market for such a thing. Not so sure of the lack of market - the Kirtley Goods meets the survived-to-nationalisation criterion, just, with 58110 the last survivor, withdrawn Nov 1951. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Yes, and yes, so long as it's the right Johnson chimney! Is there a different Johnson chimney on different locos in the class? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: It would be nice if they made a Kirtley Goods or something of that vintage, but there’s probably little market for such a thing. I'd take 2! Should be enough power to do a modest goods 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsalDan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 50 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Yes, and yes, so long as it's the right Johnson chimney! Good news all round then. Correct chimney, optional traction tyres and sound version alternatives. A good day for Bachmann! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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