Turnchapel Branch

[KeithHC]

On 23/04/2017 at 00:15, Dave_Hooe said:

Figure 23a is a photograph (1997-7219_RJS_BW_1) from the National Railway Museum’s R J Sellick collection, mentioned in an earlier post, that gives one of the clearest perspectives over the Air Ministry sidings (foreground), Turnchapel Station site and the Bayly’s yard across The Cut (mid ground). The National Railway Museum/Science and Society Picture Library have kindly granted permission to post the image on this forum to stimulate discussion.

 

In this picture the small station building on the platform has been removed, indicating that it was taken after the station was closed to passenger use on 10th September 1951. The supporting trestles have not yet been installed underneath the bridge outer span however, and so the picture must predate 1957/58.

 

Our site map in Figure 1 (see earlier post) shows the approximate position from which the photograph was taken on the cliff top above Hooe Lake Quarry. This is shown with the black arrow marked ‘NRM Sellick photo’ in Figure 1.

 

An annotated version of the image will be included in the next post to help draw out some key features.

 

Just found this thread and this photo. This is of great help for my proposed model of Rowfant in Sussex which had an Oil storage system exactly the same.

 

Keith HC

[Dave_Hooe]

On 13/02/2019 at 10:29, KeithHC said:

Just found this thread and this photo. This is of great help for my proposed model of Rowfant in Sussex which had an Oil storage system exactly the same.

 

Thanks Keith -- that really is very useful to know.

 

I've just seen a 2015 post from you with a link to photos on Ian Nolan's Flickr account: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/9638549936/in/album-72157635302040032/. 

 

I see what you mean ... same gantry structure at Rowfant. That's very helpful, as I've been trying to locate more reference photos with structural detail myself. So I'm guessing the Rowfant siding was also originally Air Ministry going back to WW2 (?).  

 

I've been trying to see if I can track down more information in the National Archives about the Air Ministry sidings at Turnchapel -- but not with much success at the moment. There seem to be quite a number of GWR records there relating to provision of Air Ministry sidings at various locations, but I haven't found any linked to SR at Turnchapel so far.

 

Cheers, Dave

Edited February 17, 2019 by Dave_Hooe

[KeithHC]

Hi Dave,

Yes the Rowfant sidings date from WW2. They remained in use until the Three Bridges - East Grinstead branch closed in 1967. The sidings by that time where used by Shell Mex/BP and probably supplied fuel to Gatwick Airport. There is evidence in the National Records that Shell where considering keeping some form of siding at Rowfant after the branch closed. However the operating instructions required the level crossing on the Worth to Turners Hill road to be closed before a train could leave Three Bridges. This would have meant the gates being closed for at least 5 minutes before a train crossed it. Eventually there was a siding put in at Gatwick followed by one at Salfords.  Both are now long closed and the airport is served by pipeline.

 

Keith

[RailWest]

>>>At the point pictured in Figure 79 the distinctive under-platform recesses had not yet been installed. These were added in 1939––installation in progress captured in the picture inset of Figure 70. I still don’t know what these recesses were for, but am wondering whether they were an air raid precaution....

 

Although there would seem to be rather more of them than I would have expected, my immediate thought is that they were the usual sort of recesses provided to accommodate the various cranks and compensators that would have been needed in the point rodding runs from the signal-box to the tunnel end of the station. If so, then that would suggest preparatory work for moving the rodding from its previous position  outside of the loop siding.

[Nearholmer]

Good article on the Turnchapel Branch in Backtrack for January 2020.

[RailWest]

I have only just discovered this thread, which makes fascinating reading. However I could not find anything therein which would seem to answer my particular query of the moment.

 

AFAIK for most of its life Turnchapel had just a small signal-box (SB), the old one on the Down side replaced by the war-time on the Up side. There was also a ground-frame (GF) on the other side of the river for Baily’s siding. In the all the documentation which I have seen the two installations as described as such.

 

Curiously therefore, there appeared at auction earlier this year a ‘TURNCHAPEL GROUND FRAME A’ nameplate. The use of the ‘A’ suffix would suggest that there was at least a ‘B’ GF as well, hence the need for a distinction. This plate was in the pressed aluminium style used by BR(WR), but to what would it have been fitted, given that only one GF is known?

 

I wondered if any parallel could be drawn with Callington, where there was also a signal-box at the station and a small GF at the eastern approach to the station. In the WR period the old L&SWR-style wooden nameboard was removed from the SB,  and the GF and SB then became CALLINGTON GF ‘A’ and ‘B’ respectively with WR-style aluminium plates. So, did the same thing happen at Turnchapel ? - yet there is no mention of a GF ‘A’ in the 1960 Plymouth Sectional Appendix, just the usual references to signal-box and (Baily’s) ground-frame.

 

Just to add to the mystery, I have learnt this week that a ‘TURNCHAPEL GROUND FRAME C’ plate also exists! So was it perhaps the case that these plates were made for a scheme which was never implemented? Do any photos exist which actually show them in place anywhere?

Edited December 18, 2019 by RailWest

[Nearholmer]

Or, somebody who owns a number plate pressing machine has found a nice little earner.

[Dave_Hooe]

On 18/12/2019 at 16:34, RailWest said:

Curiously therefore, there appeared at auction earlier this year a ‘TURNCHAPEL GROUND FRAME A’ nameplate. The use of the ‘A’ suffix would suggest that there was at least a ‘B’ GF as well, hence the need for a distinction. This plate was in the pressed aluminium style used by BR(WR), but to what would it have been fitted, given that only one GF is known?

 

Hi Chris

 

After the bombing in Nov 1940 a temporary ground frame was installed within two weeks and was used until the new signal box opened on 8-Mar-1942. Could there have been separate ground frames for the southern end of the station / air ministry sidings?  But the pressed aluminium form may rule that possibility out, if that absolutely dates it to BR(WR) days (?). There were three small buildings -- of masonry or concrete I think -- located opposite the 1942 signal box. The largest of these was very close to the site of the original signal box (with double doors facing the track I think) near the bridge end. I've often wondered what these line side 'huts' were for. Seems unlikely ... but could it have housed decommissioned ground frame?

 

Dave

[RailWest]

I don't know the precise provenance of that type of sign, but the only examples which I have encountered in the South West have been (a) of WR origin and (b) dated post-1948. [Even in WWII the GWR was still making cast-item SB nameplates.]  The SRS records the temporary 1940-42 GF as being open-air.

 

Incidentally, the Turnchapel plates are the only ones of which I am aware that had 'GROUND FRAME' in full rather than just 'G.F.'   Compare with this 1956 example.....