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LMS BGs on East Coast test trains


MarshLane

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All,

Im hoping somebody may be able to come up with the necessary info, or at least point me in the right direction.  Im doing some research for a possible modelling project looking at the Doncaster Works test train around the 1980s.  Im told it comprised of several LMS BG vehicles at some point around that time scale.   Supporting that view is this shot, which seems to show seven such vehicles (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/16333142936) and this one (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/11884054744/) but these this one would suggest the train has been 'upgraded' to former Mk1s by the mid-1980s (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/11851890384)

 

Does anyone have any details of the period the LMS BGs were involved, any ideas on the types (Im not knowledgable on LMS rolling stock - but presume there was more than one type of BG) or confirmed numbers of the vehicles involved?  Can anyone say whether they had gangways or not?  The photos suggest not, but I don't know if they were built that way, or simply plated over?

 

I think I've identified ADB975937 as one of the vehicles, and the BritishRailways.net website notes that ADB975937, ADB975939, ADB975940, ADB975941, ADB975942, ADB975943 and ADB975944 were all noted in Doncaster Hexthorpe Yard on 15th May 1981.  The consecutive numbering suggest that this was the test train, and the seven vehicles correlates with the earlier photos.  But what happened to ADB975938, which I think may previously have been 31072?  I've also identified that ADB975937 may previously have been No. 31092, ADB975989 could have been 31181,  ADB975940 might have been 31133 and ADB975943 could have been 31060.  I haven't yet located the previous identities of the others, or confirmed that those numbers are correct.

 

Its been suggested to me that they were likely disposed of 1984-1986 time, so was that when they were replaced by Mk1s for the test train?

 

Any help would be appreciated, as I'm trying to identify any potential kits in 7mm that would be suitable for use to recreate the train.

 

Cheers
Rich

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Hi Rich

 

Have a look at http://lmsca.org.uk/lms-coaches/br-departmental-coach-list/ which gives a list of ex LMS Coaches in departmental service, it seems from your list the full brakes were 50ft BG's of diagrams 2007 and 2171, The Diagram 2007 BG is available in 7mm from Sidelines kits http://www.sidelinescoaches.co.uk/lms.htm while the Essery/Jenkinson LMS Coaching stock books tell me that the Diag 2171 were a 1949 post war design the same as Diag 2007, but, with BR type Torpedo vents. MTH have done a Diag 2007 BG in RTR 7mm as well if you can find them. Hope this helps.

 

Ian

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My Lineside Publications "Departmental Coaching Stock" of May 1981 has the following incomplete info:

975937 M31092M

975938 M31072M

975939 -

975940 -

975941 -

975942 M31369M

975943 -

975944 M31370M

all listed as "ZF Test Train, Hexthorpe Yard".

 

And that point in the number series seems to be recent conversions, as many before and after are not yet allocated, although a few in the continuation 977xxx series have been started.

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A later Platform 5 book, dated April 1985, has only 3 of the vehicles remaining, 

KDB975937 M31092M as a Grantham S&T stores van

ADB975941 M31275M as a Tinsley breakdown tool van

KDB975943 M31060M as another Grantham S&T stores van.

 

And I just found the April 1984 edition of the same book, where they are listed as "converted 1980 for ZF Test Train", but now in other uses:

KDB975937 M31092M Grantham S&T stores van, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton

ADB975938 M31072M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton

ADB975939 M31416M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1588, built 1950 Wolverton

ADB975940 M31133M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2007, lot 1304, built 1940 Derby

ADB975941 M31275M Tinsley breakdown tool van, dia 2007, lot 1357, built 1941 Wolverton

ADB975942 M31369M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1508, built 1949 Wolverton

KDB975943 M31060M Grantham S&T stores van, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton

ADB975944 M31370M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1508, built 1949 Wolverton

 

All listed as former LMS design PIII BG.

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Guys,

That is great. A little bit of knowledge goes a long way! Thanks to all who replied, for the help and assistance. Ian thanks for the Sidelines kit link - not being an LMS modeller I'd never have thought of them!

 

Cheers

Rich

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Rich, in addition to Sidelines and MTH listed earlier, Haywood do a D2007 in etched brass, Westdale do one in Aluminium, and Ian Kirk does a budget priced kit in plastic.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

 

Hi Ray,

Many thanks - I'm trying to contact Westdale at the moment, so I'll look at that one - does anyone have contact details for Ian Kirk? Plastic could be more up my street! :)

 

Rich

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Ian's website is http://www.iankirkmodels.co.uk/

There is no doubt in my mind that Sidelines' BG's are the doggie's doo-dahs - but at a price if you intend building a whole train of them.  Ian's 'kits' - he calls them "an aid to scratchbuilding" are just that. The sides need careful assembly and you will have to add extra detail but they're cheap c.40 quid post free IIRC.  If you go down that road there have been several articles on how best to assemble these 'kits' in the G0G Gazette (available on-line) and an early issue of the ALSRM mag.  Best of luck with your project.

Ray.

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Thanks Ray,

I'll have a good look at all the options - your feedback on Ian's 'kits' is appreciated.  I presume its the 50ft full brake on his LMS list?

 

Thanks again to everyone - really supportive and appreciated.

 

Rich

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