RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2017 All, Im hoping somebody may be able to come up with the necessary info, or at least point me in the right direction. Im doing some research for a possible modelling project looking at the Doncaster Works test train around the 1980s. Im told it comprised of several LMS BG vehicles at some point around that time scale. Supporting that view is this shot, which seems to show seven such vehicles (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/16333142936) and this one (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/11884054744/) but these this one would suggest the train has been 'upgraded' to former Mk1s by the mid-1980s (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/11851890384) Does anyone have any details of the period the LMS BGs were involved, any ideas on the types (Im not knowledgable on LMS rolling stock - but presume there was more than one type of BG) or confirmed numbers of the vehicles involved? Can anyone say whether they had gangways or not? The photos suggest not, but I don't know if they were built that way, or simply plated over? I think I've identified ADB975937 as one of the vehicles, and the BritishRailways.net website notes that ADB975937, ADB975939, ADB975940, ADB975941, ADB975942, ADB975943 and ADB975944 were all noted in Doncaster Hexthorpe Yard on 15th May 1981. The consecutive numbering suggest that this was the test train, and the seven vehicles correlates with the earlier photos. But what happened to ADB975938, which I think may previously have been 31072? I've also identified that ADB975937 may previously have been No. 31092, ADB975989 could have been 31181, ADB975940 might have been 31133 and ADB975943 could have been 31060. I haven't yet located the previous identities of the others, or confirmed that those numbers are correct. Its been suggested to me that they were likely disposed of 1984-1986 time, so was that when they were replaced by Mk1s for the test train? Any help would be appreciated, as I'm trying to identify any potential kits in 7mm that would be suitable for use to recreate the train. CheersRich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 They look like LMS Stanier BG's, Like the one Hornby makes. They would have been gangwayed when built but I believe BR removed them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Rich Have a look at http://lmsca.org.uk/lms-coaches/br-departmental-coach-list/ which gives a list of ex LMS Coaches in departmental service, it seems from your list the full brakes were 50ft BG's of diagrams 2007 and 2171, The Diagram 2007 BG is available in 7mm from Sidelines kits http://www.sidelinescoaches.co.uk/lms.htm while the Essery/Jenkinson LMS Coaching stock books tell me that the Diag 2171 were a 1949 post war design the same as Diag 2007, but, with BR type Torpedo vents. MTH have done a Diag 2007 BG in RTR 7mm as well if you can find them. Hope this helps. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My Lineside Publications "Departmental Coaching Stock" of May 1981 has the following incomplete info: 975937 M31092M 975938 M31072M 975939 - 975940 - 975941 - 975942 M31369M 975943 - 975944 M31370M all listed as "ZF Test Train, Hexthorpe Yard". And that point in the number series seems to be recent conversions, as many before and after are not yet allocated, although a few in the continuation 977xxx series have been started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 A later Platform 5 book, dated April 1985, has only 3 of the vehicles remaining, KDB975937 M31092M as a Grantham S&T stores van ADB975941 M31275M as a Tinsley breakdown tool van KDB975943 M31060M as another Grantham S&T stores van. And I just found the April 1984 edition of the same book, where they are listed as "converted 1980 for ZF Test Train", but now in other uses: KDB975937 M31092M Grantham S&T stores van, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton ADB975938 M31072M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton ADB975939 M31416M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1588, built 1950 Wolverton ADB975940 M31133M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2007, lot 1304, built 1940 Derby ADB975941 M31275M Tinsley breakdown tool van, dia 2007, lot 1357, built 1941 Wolverton ADB975942 M31369M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1508, built 1949 Wolverton KDB975943 M31060M Grantham S&T stores van, dia 2007, lot 1261, built 1939 Wolverton ADB975944 M31370M CM&EE stores van at DR, dia 2171, lot 1508, built 1949 Wolverton All listed as former LMS design PIII BG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The later Mk1s for the ZF test train are listed in the 1985 Platform 5 book, as converted in 1981: ADB977053-062, various vac-braked Mk1s (2 BSK, 5 CK and 3 SK), coded QXV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 17, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Guys, That is great. A little bit of knowledge goes a long way! Thanks to all who replied, for the help and assistance. Ian thanks for the Sidelines kit link - not being an LMS modeller I'd never have thought of them! Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Rich, in addition to Sidelines and MTH listed earlier, Haywood do a D2007 in etched brass, Westdale do one in Aluminium, and Ian Kirk does a budget priced kit in plastic. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 17, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Rich, in addition to Sidelines and MTH listed earlier, Haywood do a D2007 in etched brass, Westdale do one in Aluminium, and Ian Kirk does a budget priced kit in plastic. Cheers, Ray. Hi Ray, Many thanks - I'm trying to contact Westdale at the moment, so I'll look at that one - does anyone have contact details for Ian Kirk? Plastic could be more up my street! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Ian's website is http://www.iankirkmodels.co.uk/ There is no doubt in my mind that Sidelines' BG's are the doggie's doo-dahs - but at a price if you intend building a whole train of them. Ian's 'kits' - he calls them "an aid to scratchbuilding" are just that. The sides need careful assembly and you will have to add extra detail but they're cheap c.40 quid post free IIRC. If you go down that road there have been several articles on how best to assemble these 'kits' in the G0G Gazette (available on-line) and an early issue of the ALSRM mag. Best of luck with your project. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 17, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2017 Thanks Ray, I'll have a good look at all the options - your feedback on Ian's 'kits' is appreciated. I presume its the 50ft full brake on his LMS list? Thanks again to everyone - really supportive and appreciated. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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