TOPS Reports 1970s-2017

[MarshLane]

Just found these on the back of a rock family tree (based around Rainbow) that I drew out in about 1988! Possibly a TV report, they seem to cover all Western Region locations from 83000 (Taunton) onwards, dated 30 March 1988. They are quite a large scan, please click on the images to enlarge:

 

 

When I get a bit more time I'll scan that TOPS locomotive codes book for you.

 

 

Thanks Flood,

That greats - that looks like a TOPS Region power report to me?

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

I do not have any other print outs from other parts of the country, did you have anywhere in mind?

It is sometimes possible to work out what shunting tags would apply to a yard, it depended on what regular traffic passed through,

and what other yards were directly served by trains from there.

 

For wagons moving between TRAs they would receive a trunk tag which routed them to the next major yard.

The tag comprised the first two numbers of the next yards TOPS location number, the major yard of the area always had the third character 0,

hence traffic routed via Toton 56590 would be tagged 560, traffic routed via Bescot 65700 would be tagged 650, traffic via Mossend 07360 tagged 070, etc etc.

For other yards in the area the third character could be a number or letter, often a logical letter, hence traffic via Exeter Riverside 83400 was tagged 830, traffic via Taunton 83000 was tagged 83T.

 

cheers 

 

 

Thanks for that Kevin,

Thats just made the Tag system a bit clearer to me - always wondered what the logic was behind it!  I guess with my layout being set Yorkshire area, then anything for Toton, Bescot, Tinsley, Doncaster, York, Healey Mills, Scunthorpe, Immingham, March kind of areas would be useful to know.

 

I've put a couple of queries out to other people for traffic types, customers and tags with in that area and see what comes back.  Im quite interest to see any info on the East Midlands/Yorkshire MGR circuits, either from an operational or TOPS point of view.  Its all fascinating, and something I have a personal interest in.

 

From what I remember the TRAs were based around key yards/locations, and things likes Flood's power report would have been TRA based I think.  Sure I've got a list of the TRAs here somewhere - I do have a complete TOPS location list from the early 1990s that somehow found its way in my direction, which is useful as customers are marked on that as well.

 

Cheers

Rich

[Rivercider]

Thanks for that Kevin,

From what I remember the TRAs were based around key yards/locations, and things likes Flood's power report would have been TRA based I think.  Sure I've got a list of the TRAs here somewhere - I do have a complete TOPS location list from the early 1990s that somehow found its way in my direction, which is useful as customers are marked on that as well.

 

Cheers

Rich

Yes on the introduction of TOPS TRAs were set up for all the major yards, some minor ones, and also on the Western Region some of the major loco depots, though they did not last long.

You could tell which locations once had a TOPS Office as the location number ended in a 0, just after full introduction of TOPS I counted there were about 140 on BR!  

 

As time went on many smaller TOPS Offices closed, a combination of declining traffic levels, better control of rolling stock, and the realisation that a competent TOPS clerk

could undertake many more inputs per hour than had been envisaged to begin with so could cover a greater geographic area.

 

At implementation of TOPS on the West of England Division of the Western Region there were TOPS Offices at the following locations:-

St Blazey 85220, Plymouth Friary 84100, Exeter Riverside 83400, Taunton 83000, Bristol Temple Meads 81700, Avonmouth 81230, Westbury 82100, Swindon 75010, Gloucester New Yard 68100, Worcester 67120, and diesel depots Laira 84090, and Bath Road 81800,

 

cheers 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rivercider

[Rivercider]

Thanks for that Kevin,

Thats just made the Tag system a bit clearer to me - always wondered what the logic was behind it!  I guess with my layout being set Yorkshire area, then anything for Toton, Bescot, Tinsley, Doncaster, York, Healey Mills, Scunthorpe, Immingham, March kind of areas would be useful to know.

 

I've put a couple of queries out to other people for traffic types, customers and tags with in that area and see what comes back.  Im quite interest to see any info on the East Midlands/Yorkshire MGR circuits, either from an operational or TOPS point of view.  Its all fascinating, and something I have a personal interest in.

 

Cheers

Rich

This would be the trunk tags for the yards listed, note that as the Speedlink Network was introduced a separate tag was required for air braked traffic, generally ending in a 2

Toton 56590 tag 560, or 562

Bescot 65700 tag 650, or 652

Tinsley 25200 tag 250, or 252

Doncaster 23430 tag 230, or 232

York Dringhouses 16450, tag 160 or 162

Healey Mills 18420, tag 180 or 182

Scunthorpe West Yard 22020, tag 220 or 222

Immingham Yard 21200, tag 210  or 212

Whitemoor 46200, tag 460 or 462

 

 

cheers

[MarshLane]

Thanks Kevin,

Thats really helpful - can you recall what an LP 2A enquiry was ... In the back of my mind I've got that it was a power report on a particular traction pool for locos?

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

One other to throw out to everyone/anyone reading or taking an interest in this thread!  I also seem to recall there was an enquiry, like an F4 for train, but for a location or specific wagon pool that didn't just give an overview of the number of vehicles there, it specified the actual details of what was at the location, loaded/empty, the customer, origin destination etc.. 

 

Any can anyone jog my memory with the details?

 

Thanks to all for your help so far - all much appreciated.

Rich

[Simon Lee]

LP is a loco pool enquiry.

 

Wagon pool enquiry is X4

 

Location enquiry is X3

 

All of course can give a mulitiude of detailed or summary information.

 

Who can remember what an IL or AM procedure were/are used for.

[MarshLane]

Hi Simon,

Not come across an IL or AM enquiry - care to elaborate

 

Rich

[Banger Blue]

Perhaps this may help. I made these crib sheets when I had access to TOPS/TRUST and was basically learning the interesting bits by trial & error.

 

TOPS PROCEDURES INDEX.doc

 

TOPS_TRUST Info.doc

Edited February 1, 2017 by Banger Blue

[MarshLane]

Hi Banger Blue,

That is immensely useful - thank you for that.

 

Interesting to see that there are TOPS locations for companies now - is this something that has come in since privatisation to get a power report for a specific company's vehicles, or is it just that those are the predominant locations for locos?  42159 was Crewe if I remember right - 52900 I cannot place in my mind, but I'm thinking possibly London or a HQ address?

 

Rich

[Rivercider]

Perhaps this may help. I made these crib sheets when I had access to TOPS/TRUST and was basically learning the interesting bits by trial & error.

 

TOPS PROCEDURES INDEX.doc

 

TOPS_TRUST Info.doc

Blimey, that brings back some memories, and quite a few inputs I have either never heard of or never used (in 15 years as a TOPS clerk)

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Hi Banger Blue,

That is immensely useful - thank you for that.

 

Interesting to see that there are TOPS locations for companies now - is this something that has come in since privatisation to get a power report for a specific company's vehicles, or is it just that those are the predominant locations for locos?  42159 was Crewe if I remember right - 52900 I cannot place in my mind, but I'm thinking possibly London or a HQ address?

 

Rich

Originally TOPS was one system covering all locos and wagons on BR in the same TRAs, for example if you did a TV power report for Crewe TRA 42140 you would get every loco in the Crewe area, regardless of whether they were working freight, parcels or passenger trains.

Once Freightliners and RES were separated off then you would need to make multiple inputs to find every loco in the Crewe area, as Freightliner and RES locos would be in separate TRAs from trainload freight locos, although they might stood on adjacent sidings!

 

cheers

[MarshLane]

Originally TOPS was one system covering all locos and wagons on BR in the same TRAs, for example if you did a TV power report for Crewe TRA 42140 you would get every loco in the Crewe area, regardless of whether they were working freight, parcels or passenger trains.

Once Freightliners and RES were separated off then you would need to make multiple inputs to find every loco in the Crewe area, as Freightliner and RES locos would be in separate TRAs from trainload freight locos, although they might stood on adjacent sidings!

 

cheers

 

 

Ah, that I didn't realise - I though the common TRAs remained through to the privatisation point.

 

Rich

[Hump Shunter]

This is an interesting read for anyone curious about the TOPS hardware/software.

 

http://www.les-smith.com/software/tops.htm

[MarshLane]

Thanks Hump Shunter,

I've searched Google for TOPS related info a few times, and never come across that - very useful.

 

Cheers
Rich

[David G Morgan]

I have only just come across this topic and the various replies have certainly stirred a few memories.  I have copies of the Yellow TOPS Guide and orange TOPS Loco booklet but cannot locate them at present, however I also have a copy of the BR2489/55 TOPS Enquiry Handbook which lists the common enquiries and provides some examples of of printouts in a handy 90 page A6 sized booklet.TOPS Handbook BR 2489.55 - Cover.doc

[philwaglab]

Thanks Mike,

Thats interesting - id assumed there must be something like that, but from my limited time on the railway, a lot of TOPS knowledge seemed to be passed on from experienced guys to the new lads, through had written notes, or note books passed on from their predecessors!  There never seemed to be any proper guides or paperwork, so I wasn't sure if it existed!

 

I've a whole host of paperwork from Tees Yard thats dated 1981, and concerns the time where customers were being introduced to TOPS, through CTT (Consisting Through Tops) rather than wagon labels etc, as we were discussing on another thread, but that doesn't help with the reports and enquiries!

 

Anything you find would be appreciated if you have time.

 

Cheers

Rich

 

We went over to CTT at Ebbw Vale in 1981 for outward tinplate.No wagon labels attached and the traffic seemed to get to the destinations !!

[philwaglab]

CTT stands for Consigned Through TOPS, which as you say did away with most wagon labels and a lot of other paperwork.

Thereafter we in Bristol TOPS had more direct contact with freight customers who reported directly to us when loading out traffic.

When declaring a wagon(s) released to traffic from customer A to customer B we no longer had to input the destination, commodity code, weight, dangerous goods UN number, or any special handling codes as all these details were all included within the unique 'Flow' number that applied to traffic between A and B, all that was required was the Flow number, the wagon number(s) and the weight of the contents,

 

cheers

 

CTT was a bit of a body blow for me as I used to collect wagon labels from various yards when they had been removed by BR for checking/booking in !!

[caradoc]

Fascinating discussion and info on TOPS, thanks to all who have contributed. My own career as a TOPS clerk was short-lived, from 1987 when I was displaced in a re-organisation at Glasgow Control and ended up as a CO2 at Mossend, until 1989 when I managed to get back into Control (and stayed until 2016 !). I recall once trying to release a loaded wagon through CTT, but messed it up.Not wanting to look stupid by asking for help, I cancelled the release and tried again but still got it wrong. Finally the third attempt worked, and I was quite pleased with myself, until a couple of days later when the boss called me in to say a company was complaining that they had been charged 3 times for the same wagon !

[MarshLane]

Following up on an old thread ... thanks to everyone who contributed previously.

 

How did TOPS handle a train which was, for example double-head, but ran round enroute, while retaining the same locos throughout? As an example, a Birmingham to Bristol working, with a pair of Class 20s that reversed/ran round at Gloucester? 

 

‘Live’ reports were presumably reconsisted en route, but how would it have shown on an historical report, as the locos would have been switched route midway through the journey?

 

Rich

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, MarshLane said:

Following up on an old thread ... thanks to everyone who contributed previously.

 

How did TOPS handle a train which was, for example double-head, but ran round enroute, while retaining the same locos throughout? As an example, a Birmingham to Bristol working, with a pair of Class 20s that reversed/ran round at Gloucester? 

 

‘Live’ reports were presumably reconsisted en route, but how would it have shown on an historical report, as the locos would have been switched route midway through the journey?

 

Rich

Assuming the train was scheduled to call somewhere to reverse, and it was reported to the TOPS office, or they knew it was happening, then a revised train consist would be input with the wagons in reverse order to go forward. The power consist should also have been re-input with the clerk reversing the two loco numbers, (if they thought to do so).

At each calling point where a train was booked to be shunted/reformed the TOS clerk has to make six inputs

BM  Arrival Report = input arrival time 

DB  Work Performed = confirm all train has arrived  (there was a facility to report a wagon detached/or attached en-route.

TF   Power Work Performed = confirm locos arrived ok.

 

AS(?)  Wagon consist = the wagons on train, and any dead in tow locos.

A7(?)  Power consist = loco(s) working train    

BN   Departure Report = departure time, and late reason if required.

 

Note that a train calling at a yard for booked loco change only the TOPS clerk is only required to do BM DB, A7 BN inputs, (but can if required also report DB and AS inouts if wagons are amended,

 

When making a F4 train enquiry it will show the last formation as input by TOPS.

An F4 S enquiry would show the list of calling points and reported times also a summary of traffic eg

24L 3E (wagons)

20L 3E

16L 0E

as from each calling point 

 

hope this helps

 

cheers 

[MarshLane]

Thanks Kevin,

Thats really helpful. Presumably, there was no need to know 'historically' which way round the locomotives were at a specific point?

 

Given you were based in Bristol - could I draw your attention (if your not already aware of it) to the website that a friend of mine runs called http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk.  He has a project ongoing to list as many 'sightings' or confirmed workings as possible through the Taunton area, making use of the database function that he has on there - currently there are over 110,000 entries!

 

The collated information gives a fascinating insight into operations through the Decades - just look at 16th June 1979 for example, with 31s, 45s, 46s, 47 and 50s all passing through!  The ability to click on loco numbers or head codes is a wonderful read in to what worked what!  I know he's keen to obtain any further information that anyone may have or to fill in any head code (passenger or freight) gaps etc.  Just thought I'd mention it incase anyone could assist further.

 

Rich

[Rivercider]

16 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Thanks Kevin,

Thats really helpful. Presumably, there was no need to know 'historically' which way round the locomotives were at a specific point?

 

 

 

Rich

 

I think, in that context, if anyone needed to know which way round a pair of locos had been at a particular point on a train journey where it had reversed once or twice (perhaps following a reported incident) then I think they would need to get a drivers report.

 

Yes I am aware of the Taunton trains website, though am not a regular follower,

 

cheers   

[bristolian]

On 01/02/2017 at 19:22, Banger Blue said:

Perhaps this may help. I made these crib sheets when I had access to TOPS/TRUST and was basically learning the interesting bits by trial & error.

 

TOPS PROCEDURES INDEX.doc 45 kB · 1,269 downloads

 

TOPS_TRUST Info.doc 25 kB · 572 downloads

Hello, are these files still available, please?. The links don't work now.

Thank you.