Oxford N7

[Markeg]

Precision Labels.  They look like they are for the GNR section of LNER/BR, but could be still used.

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/l43.html

 

Mark

[PaulG]

I've assumed standing on footplate looking towards chimney, left/right side. Whistle is on right side same as Westinghouse pump. Hope that helps.

Paul

[Norton Wood]

And, once we have our Oxford N7s in our sweaty little hands, the next question is ............

 

Who makes 4mm scale destination boards for them?

 

Some of the reviewers seem to believe that the destination board brackets are additional lamp irons.

Martin

 

Interesting that you've asked that because I asked Sanky Scenic's if he had produced any, which sadly he hadn't, but I've asked him to produce some for the N7 having given him the measurements from the model. Once I've got them I'll let you know how they have turned out. Maybe if he gets enough orders he might put them on the main range? 

[Norton Wood]

Also, announced on there Facebook Page Oxford Rail will have some announcements to make at 09:00am today

[31A]

Precision Labels.  They look like they are for the GNR section of LNER/BR, but could be still used.

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/l43.html

 

Mark

 

Thank you so much for this, I was unaware of these and have been wanting to put destination boards on my N2s for years!  As you say, the ones on the list are mainly GN but a few could be used for GE Section N7s - Liverpool Street, Enfield Town (perhaps they meant to do Enfield Chase?) and Hertford, if that is taken as referring to East rather than North.  Surprising KING'S + is not on the list!

[Ravenser]

Some N7s found their way into Nottinghamshire - I've seen a photo of one on the Annesley Dido in the late 40s (I think)

 

As this may open up possibilities for people who model something other than GN/GE suburban operations - it seems worth raising the issue here

 

I have a feeling non-condensing locos were involved and that the GE release has condensing pipes?  

 

Anyone feel brave enough to comment? 

 

(If there's a credible BR era Colwick loco that could be represented by one of Oxford's releases I might be tempted to get one of these. My "steam period" may be a little unserious , but it can definitely use modest sized passenger tanks . 4MT 2-6-4Ts are a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut on a 2 coach train...)

[Bucoops]

The condensing equipment was removed from most of the N7s from ~1936. I think some were retained to work the "widened" lines.

 

Info on removal dates here under the individual locos:

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=601407&type=S&page=fleet

 

This one was allocated to Colwick for a while:

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=601407021&type=S&loco=69620

 

It was given a round top boiler in 1947 so became an N7/4 so if Oxford do one of those (and the preserved one is also a /4 and made it to Colwick a couple of times too) then you should be good.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Bucoops

[Bomag]

She looks good, wish it had been a N2

 

Why, Gresley acknowledged that the N7 was better in many situations by ordering more N7s for the LNER than his own N2.

 

Also there has been several models of the N2.

[61658]

Roughly when was it that the N7s began being displaced from the suburban services, dispersed to other sheds and used more on branch lines?

 

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=601407&type=S&page=alloc 

 

This should help. If the link above is anything to go by, almost all of them ended their days at Stratford. Ignoring ones allocated off the GE at outposts such as Colwick, Annesley, Hatfield etc, a few seem to have been sent to the countryside around 1957, and ended up at Cambridge, Lowestoft and Harwich Parkeston Quay from this period onwards. I would hazard a guess that they were displaced by brand new BTH Type 1/Class 15's which entered traffic in 1957, and the N7's would've then displaced the last F5's and F6's, and maybe some of the remaining E4's. Some non-London depots always had a small allocation of N7's throughout the BR period - Colchester for the Walton branch, and Kings Lynn for the South Lynn shuttle for example. 

 

On having a look through the relevant Yeadons (vol 27) it would seem that N7s started to be moved away from Stratford in 1948-49 to locations such as Colchester, Parkeston, Ipswich, Norwich, Hornsey and Neasden amongst others. Although this was only in small numbers of 4-6 to each location and they were frequently swapped back to Stratford and replaced by other N7s. By 1951 a few had spread further to Annesley, Colwick and Bradford.

 

Larger quantities of N7s began to be moved from Stratford permanently from 1956/57 and by 1959 the Stratford allocation was down to 61 from over 100 in 1950.

 

In LNER days the bulk the of changes to allocations seem to be between Stratford, Hatfield and Kings Cross, with a few going to Neasden for a short time in 1925/26 and Cambridge in 1933. During the war a few were allocated to Bradford.

 

This is of course a very broad summary have a look at Yeadons if you can plus this site

 

http://www.stciers.me.uk/home/sheds/index_sheds.html

 

is really useful for East Anglian allocations.

 

Cheers

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Why, Gresley acknowledged that the N7 was better in many situations by ordering more N7s for the LNER than his own N2.

One of Gresley's difficulties was that he had been designing for the GNR, designed as a main line route for which heavy construction of high axleload locos was the norm from Doncaster. Much of the GER (and also the GNoSR) could not accept Doncaster designs, and the problems with the B17 design attempts reflect this.

 

I should expect the LNER locomotive committee were very happy to find a developed GER loco designed for the GER section's route requirements. That Stratford had only built a dozen since the design emerged in 1914 tells the story of the cash strapped GER. Had the LNER been in a significantly better financial position I suspect there would have been many more N7s constructed in its time to replace the large fleet of 0-6-0T and 2-4-2T that were the ubiquitous smaller tank locos on the GER section.

 

The N7 also neatly filled a gap in the GNR catalogue which had nothing available to replace their ageing Stirling and Ivatt four coupleds which were used on the Hatfield branches. That led to the combination of N2 and N7 in Hatfield's allocation, spiced up right at the end of steam operation of the inner suburban and branch services by the brief appearance of ex GCR Parker N5 69266  in July 1959 for a 'full set' of examples of ex-LNER Southern area 0-6-2T. (This venerable crock was apparently only capable of performing the 'Welwyn shunt' - roughly two miles and return  on level track - and was swiftly 'sent away'.)

[Bucoops]

Very much a "horses for courses" situation. The N2 and N7 were both fine beasts.

[Willie Whizz]

I too was interested in the prospect of an Annesley-based N7, so I did a bit of digging on the Rail.uk/info website to try to establish which locos were shedded there during the early BR era, and (in particular) when they left.  I can't guarantee this is 100% complete as the process involved a certain amount of 'faffing about' between various pages, but:

 

69651   (N7/5)  1952 - Oct. 1956

69689   (N7/2)  1954 - Mar. 1955

69691   (N7/3)  1951 - Jan 1954

69692   (N7/3)  1954 - Oct 1954

69695   (N7/2)  1951 - May 1954

 

Pretty much every photograph I've seen of these locos shows them either 'on shed' or on duty with a couple of elderly carriages forming the famous 'Annesley Dido' workmen's train; I've not seen them illustrated with any other traffic, but that doesn't mean the N7s did nothing else.  (The Gresley N2s in this area were, I understand, shedded at Colwick on the far side of Nottingham from Annesley, and had pretty much gone by this time; they had a few years on local passenger traffic such as the Mansfield Railway services, but were not much liked).

 

Now the first Oxford BR-liveried version is, I believe, to be 69612, which is an N7/4.  (Just my luck!).   I don't have any great fear of a renumbering job, mind you, but what I'm struggling to get a sense of is whether there are significant 'visual' differences between the Part 4 engines and Parts 2,3 and 5.  If I read the website correctly, all these versions appear to have round-top boilers; the principal difference commented on has to do with whether they have short or long travel valves.  

 

I wonder whether anyone knowledgeable on here can comment on whether that 'mechanical gubbins' issue is realistically likely to be detectable on a model of this scale; and whether there are any other significant matters which would require to be corrected to get a decent representation of one of the other variants, please?

[Bucoops]

There are differences - LTV ones have the ends of the valves showing on the "piano lid" below the smokebox. There are also variations such as number and location of lubricators, bunker styles etc.

 

[Darryl Tooley]

69651 is closest to the Oxford N7/4, but being left hand drive, had the ejector pipe on the other side (and lower down). At the time under review it had just lost its Westinghouse brakes and gained push-pull gear. The others listed all had the later design of bunker - taller, without rails - and cabside window further back.

 

N7/2s were belpaire firebex engines.

 

D

[Craig85]

Did anyone get a chance to ask Oxford at the trade fair, as to when we can expect the BR version of the N7.

 

C

[Norton Wood]

Did anyone get a chance to ask Oxford at the trade fair, as to when we can expect the BR version of the N7.

 

C

 

I've not but I spoke to my local model shop on Tuesday and they are expecting the BR or LNER version (They are not sure which) in the next few weeks and then the same again in March. So I assume that Oxford was spreading the model's release over a few months. Why OR didn't put all three on sale at the same time, I will never know. I may like the LNER & GER liveries more I recognize the BR version is currently the most popular model, with the LNER & GER liveries tailing behind. 

[mikeharvey22]

I've not but I spoke to my local model shop on Tuesday and they are expecting the BR or LNER version (They are not sure which) in the next few weeks and then the same again in March. So I assume that Oxford was spreading the model's release over a few months. Why OR didn't put all three on sale at the same time, I will never know. I may like the LNER & GER liveries more I recognize the BR version is currently the most popular model, with the LNER & GER liveries tailing behind.

 

I think that Oxford ship items as each batch is completed. Can't think of a good reason to hold back stock, which costs money, and like others they might release the least popular livery first, to catch more early adopters. They have more frequent deliveries than say Bachmann, because the container/s share with the Diecast models which amount to 20-30 new items per month. I suspect that they ran one line for the N7, and to avoid confusion with different fittings, completed the pale grey version before starting on the next one.

Edited January 25, 2019 by mikeharvey22

[Bucoops]

Additionally doing a smaller run to begin with helps with any issues that would stall a big run?

[Izzy]

 

I may be dreaming, but I thought I had seen some remarks a while back indicating that the production run of all these had already been completed back in November. If so then releasing them for sale is simply marketing considerations.

 

Izzy

[NXEA!]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned that the BR version is being delivered last - now I’ve said that it’ll be the next variant to turn up...

[Norton Wood]

I was looking into coaching stock for the N7, as has been mentioned that it's quite hard to get your hands on a quint set. Interestingly a friend of mine just brought up this 3D Printed website, fantastically a full Quint set is for sale - Modellers will have to make it and it's a tad expensive but I might give it ago.

 

I've linked all three coach bodies which you need, something that I think should be highlighted in railway magazines more, as there's a lot of skilled CAD people out there who have produced these coaches, wagons, and modifications which will help modelers out massively.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZUHEBXPNX/o-76-lner-quint-d85-brake-3rd-coach-5?optionId=64818876&li=marketplace - 1st coach Composite/Break

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/CYMJV965U/o-76-lner-quad-d74-third-coach-3?optionId=64818895&li=marketplace - 2nd - 3rd & 4th coaches

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/SUTALPPAX/o-76-lner-quad-d71-comp-coach-4?optionId=64818929&li=marketplace - 5th and final coach

[Metr0Land]

I was looking into coaching stock for the N7, as has been mentioned that it's quite hard to get your hands on a quint set. Interestingly a friend of mine just brought up this 3D Printed website, fantastically a full Quint set is for sale - Modellers will have to make it and it's a tad expensive but I might give it ago.

 

I've linked all three coach bodies which you need, something that I think should be highlighted in railway magazines more, as there's a lot of skilled CAD people out there who have produced these coaches, wagons, and modifications which will help modelers out massively.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZUHEBXPNX/o-76-lner-quint-d85-brake-3rd-coach-5?optionId=64818876&li=marketplace - 1st coach Composite/Break

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/CYMJV965U/o-76-lner-quad-d74-third-coach-3?optionId=64818895&li=marketplace - 2nd - 3rd & 4th coaches

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/SUTALPPAX/o-76-lner-quad-d71-comp-coach-4?optionId=64818929&li=marketplace - 5th and final coach

 

This is actually a nom-de-plume for rue_d_etropal of this parish

[jazzer]

Roughly when was it that the N7s began being displaced from the suburban services, dispersed to other sheds and used more on branch lines?

Steam lasted on the Liverpool Street Suburban services until November 1960, In fact I think all official steam services to Liverpool St had finished by then. The only N7 ' s still operating beyond that date as far as I am aware were on the North Woolwich branch which remained steam operated until 1962, but even then the N7's were starting to be replaced by redundant L1's. Strangely, once steam finished in Liverpool St the North Woolwich branch was operated by crews from Enfield Town shed who had to travel to Sratford and back at the beginning and end of each shift.

[Tramshed]

I agree that it would have been nice to see 1002 with GER lettering and maybe a future release with Train Control numbering. However, given that 1002 was built in 1921 and Train Control was implemented the same year, I doubt the GER lettering stayed long and thus the version of 1002 modelled covers a wider time window (year and a half vs a few months).

 

Intrigued that Oxford's website suggests other versions may be tooled in the future (probably depending on the success of these initial releases) - perhaps a chance then to see 1001 in GER blue, if the correct cab is modelled?

Not just the cab I'm afraid. Oxford have said they will not release either of the first 2 locos as they would need to tool for a different boiler with the dome set further back.

 

I have come across some further information on the livery for this period from the RCTS volume 9A (so don't shoot the messenger!) it states:- "No. 1000 was turned out painted in light grey with black panelling and red lining. It had standard G.E.R. transfer lettering in gold with red shading. No 1001 however, received ultramarine blue livery with black edging and red lining. No. 1000 was never painted blue and worked throughout the 1914-18 war in the light grey colour until 1921 when it received a coat of shop lead grey. The ten engines built during 1921 were all finished in this shop lead colour. The cab fronts and boiler bands were black and the lettering was yellow, shaded black. At this time the quality of the blue paint could not be guaranteed and was four times the pre-war price. Cast brass numberplates were fitted. Later in 1921 train control was introduced on the GER and the lettering on the side tanks was painted out and replaced by the engine's number in 19in. high figures in middle chrome yellow. This was the livery in which Nos. 1000-11 entered L.N.E.R. stock"

 

The grey on the Oxford model is a rather light shade and I wonder if it should have been a darker 'lead' shade! One has sympathy for the manufacturers trying to work off photographs when everything was grey and the light would play tricks on the researcher. Certainly the yellow lettering would stand better contrast against a darker grey (perhaps something closer to the GWR wagon colour). Time was when a model was supplied with a loco crew. I can see the day when it comes with a set of platform figures of 2 people arguing about the colour scheme on the loco!

Edited January 26, 2019 by Tramshed

[Phil Parker]

I was looking into coaching stock for the N7, as has been mentioned that it's quite hard to get your hands on a quint set. Interestingly a friend of mine just brought up this 3D Printed website, fantastically a full Quint set is for sale - Modellers will have to make it and it's a tad expensive but I might give it ago.

 

I've linked all three coach bodies which you need, something that I think should be highlighted in railway magazines more, as there's a lot of skilled CAD people out there who have produced these coaches, wagons, and modifications which will help modelers out massively.

 

The problem is that searching all the 3D model websites every time something new came out is incredibly time-consuming and despite what people think, magazine staff members aren't numerous.

 

You've also got the issue of printing the models. The CAD renders look lovely, often the actual prints will look poor next to your nice injection-moulded loco. Worse still, the modeller still needs to assemble and paint the results. It's not unreasonable to suggest that building a conventional kit would be easier if you want to match the standard of finish.

 

That's the beauty of RMweb, this information can be crowdsourced.