Oxford N7

[NXEA!]

49 minutes ago, Downer said:

 

 

And I’m pretty damn sure none of the 97xx variants were either. Where does this weird notion come from?

With respect, that comes across a little presumptive. 

 

Links:

 

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=9700&loco=9700

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=9701&loco=9701

 

I’ll leave others to debate the validity of the source, but I have had no reason to doubt it - on the contrary, I find it very useful.

[NXEA!]

2 hours ago, Gilwell Park said:

The RCTS books quote that 78023 worked a special goods on the Chingford branch on 2/8/62.I do not believe that any 57xx were ever allocated to 30A, although I would love to be proved wrong.  Roger

 

Didn’t know that, thanks! The 2MT’s always seemed a bit of an odd allocation, what with steam on the GE being in its death throes, the small number of 2MT’s allocated, and the fact that 15’s and 16’s were doing all the light passenger and freight work by this time. The only thing I can think of is that their allocation at Stratford was to hasten the withdrawal of the remaining elderly ex-GE machines. 

[Gilwell Park]

20 minutes ago, NXEA! said:

With respect, that comes across a little presumptive. 

 

Links:

 

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=9700&loco=9700

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=9701&loco=9701

 

I’ll leave others to debate the validity of the source, but I have had no reason to doubt it - on the contrary, I find it very useful.

 

[Gilwell Park]

Sorry but I don't believe it either. I was a regular visitor to 30A from 1959 to 1963 and never saw a GW engine there. What use would a 97XX be in early 63 when the shed had closed to steam in September 1962? According to my locoshed books 9700 & 9701 were always allocated with the remainder of the class at 81A. Neither have I ever seen a reference in the RCTS Railway Observer of such an allocation.

[NXEA!]

1 hour ago, Gilwell Park said:

Sorry but I don't believe it either. I was a regular visitor to 30A from 1959 to 1963 and never saw a GW engine there. What use would a 97XX be in early 63 when the shed had closed to steam in September 1962? According to my locoshed books 9700 & 9701 were always allocated with the remainder of the class at 81A. Neither have I ever seen a reference in the RCTS Railway Observer of such an allocation.

Which are all very good reasons to doubt the veracity of the info. That period is (unfortunately) before my time so cannot vouch either way. I had a look at Shed Bash and there’s no mention of a Pannier - 9401 doesn’t appear to have been seen during the time it was allocated.

 

Clearly BRLocoDatabase has a source for the 57xx/97xx claims - I wonder what the source is? 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Go to Dick Hardy's 'Railways in the Blood' (first edition, signed by 'The Man') p53. He gives the date as 1957 at Stratford and there is 9401 alongside 68596 in a photo by Dick Riley. The pannier proved short of water for the Hertford suburban turn, but was a useful shunter (unsurprisingly).

[The Stationmaster]

17 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Go to Dick Hardy's 'Railways in the Blood' (first edition, signed by 'The Man') p53. He gives the date as 1957 at Stratford and there is 9401 alongside 68596 in a photo by Dick Riley. The pannier proved short of water for the Hertford suburban turn, but was a useful shunter (unsurprisingly).

There are also 3 photos  of it at work shunting (or at rest from shunting) while on the GE in Irwell's  'Pannier Papers' No.1  - including the one of it alongside 68596.  It is alongside 61573 in one of the other photos so no doubting in which part of the country it was photographed.

[PaulG]

I note there is some doubt about my post above of the allocation of GWR tank 9401 d to Stratford. I quote from The Railway Magazine August 1957:

 

".... 0-6-0 tank No. 9401, which had been on loan to Stratford, and had spent most of the time on shunting duties at Bishopsgate Goods Station, was returned to the Western Region on June 11."

 

As for 9400, I have no information as its allocation to Stratford, and quoted BRDatabase, who have much greater access to information than I.

 

Paul

[Downer]

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the 94xx class pannier tank 9401 was allocated to Stratford for around five months between January and June 1957. What is disputed is the allocation of any 57xx, 8750 or 97xx tanks - I have certainly never seen any evidence of this, pictorial or otherwise.  

 

But getting back on topic, has there been any indication that the sound-fitted N7 is on the way?

[Steamport Southport]

25 minutes ago, Downer said:

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the 94xx class pannier tank 9401 was allocated to Stratford for around five months between January and June 1957. What is disputed is the allocation of any 57xx, 8750 or 97xx tanks - I have certainly never seen any evidence of this, pictorial or otherwise.  

 

 

Apart from a mistake, the only suggestion I can think of is something has got mixed up somewhere. The 97xxs were used on cross London freights and definitely would have appeared in East London.  But I believe they were only ever allocated to Old Oak Common.

 

It could be something like an enthusiast seeing them there and "guessing" they were allocated there. Maybe they needed works attention and Stratford was available.

 

 

Jason

[Downer]

33 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Apart from a mistake, the only suggestion I can think of is something has got mixed up somewhere. The 97xxs were used on cross London freights and definitely would have appeared in East London.  But I believe they were only ever allocated to Old Oak Common.

 

It could be something like an enthusiast seeing them there and "guessing" they were allocated there. Maybe they needed works attention and Stratford was available.

 

 

Jason

 

You may be right about the cross-London freights, but I’ve been collecting info on these for about ten years now, and the only such services employing the 97xx’s I’ve come across were those to Smithfield via the Metropolitan line. I’ve never seen any evidence of one further east than that.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Downer

[The Stationmaster]

42 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Apart from a mistake, the only suggestion I can think of is something has got mixed up somewhere. The 97xxs were used on cross London freights and definitely would have appeared in East London.  But I believe they were only ever allocated to Old Oak Common.

 

It could be something like an enthusiast seeing them there and "guessing" they were allocated there. Maybe they needed works attention and Stratford was available.

 

 

Jason

According to the allocation history in the 'Pannier Papers' the 97XX were only ever allocated to Old Oak or Southall with what appears to have been a 'paper allocation' for a very short while to Taunton (or a clerical error?).  Hugh Longworth's 'snapshot' allocation history shows only Old Oak but it is a snapshot which covers only selected years.  As their raison d'etre was working to Smithfield it would have been very unlikely for them to be allowed to elsewhere until the Smithfield traffic began to decline in the very late 1950s.

 

It's also debatable if they ever worked cross-London to anywhere east of Smithfield although it would in any case have been via Acton Wells although they might have worked via Snow Hill Tunnel southwards as officially they were the only Western steam engines suitably equipped and permitted to work between Paddington and Farringdon over the H&C once their predecessors had gone.

Edited February 6, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The only one of the 97XX class to be reallocated at all during BR days was 9707.

It was transferred from OOC to Southall during November 1963. Then to Taunton (if it actually happened) in August 1964. It was withdrawn the following month.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm wondering whether someone has mistaken N7s for 97xx.

 

N7s 9700 and 9701 were allocated to 30A Stratford in 1948. Obviously before they received the 6 prefix.

 

http://www.railuk.info/steam/getsteam.php?row_id=21268

 

http://www.railuk.info/steam/getsteam.php?row_id=21269

 

 

Jason

[Izzy]

Getting back to the Oxford N7......... I have just picked up the latest Hornby Mag - HM141-  and been reading the review of it in there. 

 

What has interested me, considering the general view seems to be that it runs quite nicely, is that it is stated as having a coreless motor, ( a sensibly sized one going by the illustration), with a largish capacitor on the 8-pin blank to enhance the models smooth running capabilities. A single flywheel sits between the motor and the gears.

 

At first I though that this was perhaps a mistake since it says a powerful 5-pole motor, but the use of the capacitor would seem to indicate that it is correct, perhaps to overcome any serious performance  issues for those using feedback DC controllers.

 

Izzy

 

[PaulG]

On 07/02/2019 at 17:34, Izzy said:

Getting back to the Oxford N7......... I have just picked up the latest Hornby Mag - HM141-  and been reading the review of it in there. 

 

What has interested me, considering the general view seems to be that it runs quite nicely, is that it is stated as having a coreless motor, ( a sensibly sized one going by the illustration), with a largish capacitor on the 8-pin blank to enhance the models smooth running capabilities. A single flywheel sits between the motor and the gears.

 

At first I though that this was perhaps a mistake since it says a powerful 5-pole motor, but the use of the capacitor would seem to indicate that it is correct, perhaps to overcome any serious performance  issues for those using feedback DC controllers.

 

Izzy

 

I use ECM feedback controllers and the loco appears to run fine, hauling capacity is very good.

 

[NXEA!]

On 06/02/2019 at 15:57, The Midland Mole said:

Also do we know the authenticity of the sound they are using? Is it recorded directly from 69621, cobbled together from random recordings of it or is it just made up like the Dean Goods sound?

I would hope that the N7 uses real recordings, although 69621 hasn't steamed since July 2014 - I guess it depends whether Oxford recorded it before it was withdrawn? In mitigation, the Dean Goods is stuffed and mounted so no surprise it doesn't use authentic recordings really. I notice Hattons are offering N7's with Olivia's sound, but again, not sure if this is generic or not. 

 

As an aside when I popped into my local shop today (and apologies if this is old news), I was told they were expecting deliveries of the LNER and BR ones at the end of this month and end of March - they weren't sure which order they were coming in, though. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by NXEA!

[adb968008]

On 28/01/2019 at 13:35, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

(There is an alternative NEM mounting to solve this type of problem, but to date only the now extinct Hobbyco/ViTrains models of classes 37 and 47 have had this fitting in OO, and apart from their couplers with these locos, none of the commonly used OO RTR couplers have the matching fitting, so really a non-starter.)

Roco make a coupling that slides into the vitrains slot. (It’s a Roco style loop coupling, without the UK hook, but it works and it’s unobtrusive).

Edited February 10, 2019 by adb968008

[Garethp8873]

Message on FB today:

 

"****** the LNER and BR versions will be here shortly. Updates on exact dates for delivery to follow soon."

[jazzer]

On 3 February 2019 at 16:55, PaulG said:

In September 1962 Stratford had an allocation of about 50 steam locos, including J15, V3, B1, 57xx, L1, J69, Class 4 2-6-4T, Class 2 2-6-0 as well as N7. All regular steam in East Anglia finished on 9 September 1962, except at March which closed 25 November 1963.

I have just done a bit more research and to my surprise I discovered there were over 40 N7's still on the books in 1961, mostly at Sratford I think, although I can't think what work they could have been employed on apart from a handful ., It also surprised me to learn that although steam services in Liverpool St finished in Nov 1960 the immaculate 69614 continued as station pilot until 1962. The former DMPS at Liverpool St, Richard Hardy, described in Steam World, an occasion in 1962 when the OHL power was off between Liverpool St at Iford so 69614, on pilot duty was hooked onto a Shenfield electric packed full of commuters and took it to Ilford keeping time including traversing the Ilford Flyover !

[Nimbus]

11 minutes ago, jazzer said:

The former DMPS at Liverpool St, Richard Hardy, described in Steam World, an occasion in 1962 when the OHL power was off between Liverpool St at Iford so 69614, on pilot duty was hooked onto a Shenfield electric packed full of commuters and took it to Ilford keeping time including traversing the Ilford Flyover !

Wonder if an L1 would have done as well as that!

 

The Nim.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Easy for an L1 that hadn't had enough time since construction or heavy general to rattle itself into one of the many failure modes that this class exhibited. There was no lack of power, the primary problem was too much power for the lightweight frame and other construction to handle, according to the running shed engineer that knew them best.

[90rob]

2 hours ago, jazzer said:

I have just done a bit more research and to my surprise I discovered there were over 40 N7's still on the books in 1961, mostly at Sratford I think, 

 

My apologies if this has been mentioned before - I haven't been right through the thread - but there is a British Pathe film of various N7s meeting their end at Stratford  at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5Cy6NqUkQ

Good close up views of some of the details.

 

[jazzer]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Easy for an L1 that hadn't had enough time since construction or heavy general to rattle itself into one of the many failure modes that this class exhibited. There was no lack of power, the primary problem was too much power for the lightweight frame and other construction to handle, according to the running shed engineer that knew them best.

Yes, the much maligned L1. The first one, 9000, passed all its trials with flying colours and looked like being a roaring success until the mileage crept up a bit. 

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, 90rob said:

 

My apologies if this has been mentioned before - I haven't been right through the thread - but there is a British Pathe film of various N7s meeting their end at Stratford  at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5Cy6NqUkQ

Good close up views of some of the details.

 

What a great piece of film. Once again though , the N7’ s in the film seem to have a bigger steam dome tha the Oxford model . It’s does look like Oxford have got that bit wrong.