Oxford N7

[Stentor]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Can you check the link please.

Not showing on my 'puter.

Bernard

Apologies Bernard and any others who couldn’t open it.

It looks like it is a Facebook related link.

This should be the document as a pdf without any baggage. 

//Simon

 

 

 

N7 - Obituary for an outstanding suburban tank.pdf

Edited October 20, 2019 by Stentor
Aiming for clarity.

[PaulG]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Hornby offer three each of Gresley and Thompson designs of non-gangwayed, simplest option from RTR and happily all of them very good models. To date only available in teak or BR crimson, but pretty appropriate since steam departed the GE section pretty early, few of these would have had a maroon repaint. Also BR's 57' mk1 non gangwayed from Bachmann, not quite as refined as the Hornby models.

 

I don't think the BR MK1 non-corridor stock as manufactured by Bachmann ran on the GE in 1950s. Certainly in the 1950s anything GER, some NER and Gresley teak (and as we learnt at the GERS meeting yesterday) Gresley steel non-vestibuled stock.

 

Paul

[PaulG]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I should have pointed out that the stock on the Walton/Clacton service was gangwayed stock.

The Colchester to Clacton services had a variety of stock including non-vestibuled stock.

 

The 1951 Carriage Working Diagram shows Clacton to Colchester as Set 67 which was a CL (2-5) and a BT (3). 

 

The 1958 Diagram shows a similar working as SL (8), CL (3-4) and BS (4)

 

Paul

Edited October 20, 2019 by PaulG
Add Carriage Working Diagram notes.

[Les Bird]

I acquired my model yesterday and I'm very pleased with it. It really looks the part a the head of a rake of Hornby Gresley non-corridor coaches. I will definitely be shortening the couplings a shown above. Apart from that, I'll leave it as it is.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, PaulG said:

The Colchester to Clacton services had a variety of stock including non-vestibuled stock.

 

The 1951 Carriage Working Diagram shows Clacton to Colchester as Set 67 which was a CL (2-5) and a BT (3). 

 

The 1958 Diagram shows a similar working as SL (8), CL (3-4) and BS (4)

 

Paul

The service that I was on started at Liverpool Street and was corridor stock.

[Bucoops]

15 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The service that I was on started at Liverpool Street and was corridor stock.

 

Presumably it was an express service later replaced with the class 309s?

 

The main part goes to Clacton with a small portion split to go to Walton, presumably with a "local" loco for the portion. 

 

 

[Bucoops]

4 hours ago, PaulG said:

The Colchester to Clacton services had a variety of stock including non-vestibuled stock.

 

The 1951 Carriage Working Diagram shows Clacton to Colchester as Set 67 which was a CL (2-5) and a BT (3). 

 

The 1958 Diagram shows a similar working as SL (8), CL (3-4) and BS (4)

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul, I don't suppose you have any info on workings during LNER days? 1939 specificially, but anything around then? Seems very hard to find

[PaulG]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

The service that I was on started at Liverpool Street and was corridor stock.

Correct, in 1958 the Carriage Working Diagram shows Liverpool Street to Clacton/Walton typically 8 carriages, last three being detached for Walton, front five continuing to Clacton. BSK (4), SK (8)*, SK (8)*, FK (6)*, RB, TSO*, CK (4-3)*, BCK (2-3)*. * =MK1. Note even as late as 1958 on such workings,  still with pre-nationlisation stock.

 

Paul

[Izzy]

Towards the end of steam on the Clacton and Walton branches there seemed to be a wide variety of coaching stock used if the shots to be found in the pictorial books by JD Mann - East Anglian Steam/Aspects of East Anglian Steam (several volumes of each) - and the Middleton Press line book are anything to go by. I think the current Hornby Gresley & Thompson coaches would fit quite well - almost anything would, and whatever the livery.

 

I do think that perhaps some distinction might needed with regard to whether the trains were locals to Colchester, or ones to Liverpool St, and especially regarding the splitting/joining at Thorpe-le-soken. Difficult towards the end when such as B17's and K1's were doing the 3 coach locals at times.

 

In reference to the N7's the last page of Great Eastern Railways, another softback title from JD Mann has some shots of the last few N7's to work out of Walton before Type1/2 diesels took over until EMU services started. N7/3 69675, 69730 & 69673, the very last two being N7/5 69651 and N7/2 69690.

 

Izzy

[PaulG]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

Hi Paul, I don't suppose you have any info on workings during LNER days? 1939 specificially, but anything around then? Seems very hard to find

Hi Bucoops, my interest is the period 1948-1958 and I haven't anything that early. Have you had a look at the GERS website?

Paul

[Bucoops]

20 minutes ago, PaulG said:

Hi Bucoops, my interest is the period 1948-1958 and I haven't anything that early. Have you had a look at the GERS website?

Paul

 

I think I own about 70% of their emporium  thanks though

[61658]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The service that I was on started at Liverpool Street and was corridor stock.

 

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Presumably it was an express service later replaced with the class 309s?

 

The main part goes to Clacton with a small portion split to go to Walton, presumably with a "local" loco for the portion. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, PaulG said:

Correct, in 1958 the Carriage Working Diagram shows Liverpool Street to Clacton/Walton typically 8 carriages, last three being detached for Walton, front five continuing to Clacton. BSK (4), SK (8)*, SK (8)*, FK (6)*, RB, TSO*, CK (4-3)*, BCK (2-3)*. * =MK1. Note even as late as 1958 on such workings,  still with pre-nationlisation stock.

 

Paul

The service you are talking about is the Clacton interval service which ran each our from Liverpool st usually at 36min past the hour.

 

I asked a similar question on the LNER forum a few years back and got this response for winter 1954

Likely locos would have been B17s or Thompson B2s  with an N7 running the Walton portion from Thorpe-le-soken, prior to 1953 B12s and F5s from Thorpe would be more likely.

 

 here is the formation for the 10.36 am from Liverpool Street in Winter 1954-5:

Clacton:
BTK - 4 compartments
TK - Thompson
TTO - Mark I
FK - Thompson
RB
TK - 8 compartments (not Saturdays)

Walton:
2 TK - Thompson
BFK - 5 compartments

The 3.36 pm was listed as:

Clacton:
BTK 4 compartments
TK 7 compartments
TK Thompson
FK Thompson
RB

Walton:
CK Thompson
TK 7 compartments
BCK 2 first 3 third compartments

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Hi Paul, I don't suppose you have any info on workings during LNER days? 1939 specificially, but anything around then? Seems very hard to find

 

I am basing my layout on the line between Colchester and Clacton in the early 1950s, From the photos I have seen prior to WWII D13s, Clauds and B12s were the order of the day. There is some footage I have seen of children (including my Grandmother) being evacuated from Clacton by train in early WWII I will see if I can find it.

I think traffic on the line was more limited in the 30s compared to the 50s as part of it was only doubled during the war.

 

In regard to the N7s they are a great  R-T-R addition for this line because as well as the trains from Thorpe-le-soken to Walton they worked local trains from Clacton and Walton to Colchester (prior to the 1950s these used F5s). The pictures I have seen tend to be three coach sets CL-LT-BT made up of a mixture of Thompson and Gresley non-vestibuled stock including Gresley steel sided d.265s etc. Tilbury tanks were also used from the mid 50s. The Brightlingsea trains used F5s (1930s) then J15s and Ivatt 2Mts in the 1950s. Prior to the war ex-NER clerestory stock was also used along with the Gresleys.

There is a nice photo in one of the J.D. Mann books of a local service (I belive at Thorpe-le-soken) being double headed by a J15 and N7 coupled nose to nose. 

[PhilJ W]

Another thing to consider with regard to rolling stock was that during the holiday seasons in the 50's a lot of older coaches that had stood idle for the rest of the year were pressed into service.  Some of them would even be pre-grouping.

[sb67]

Thanks for the info on coaching stock. Did the N7 ever get used for freight/parcels work?

Steve.

[PhilJ W]

6 minutes ago, sb67 said:

Thanks for the info on coaching stock. Did the N7 ever get used for freight/parcels work?

Steve.

Possibly for short trip workings but they were principally passenger engines. For freight it was more often a J15, and for parcels probably a D16.

Edited October 21, 2019 by PhilJ W

[Downer]

24 minutes ago, sb67 said:

Thanks for the info on coaching stock. Did the N7 ever get used for freight/parcels work?

Steve.

On the Tottenham & Hampstead line, which I am modelling, Stratford N7s often appeared on parcels trains.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

27 minutes ago, sb67 said:

... Did the N7 ever get used for freight/parcels work?

Last one I ever saw working was on the 'stink train' aka 'Ashburton Grove Pullman' hauling a motley collection of opens loaded with North London's rubbish, destined for a worked out gravel pit tip site on the Hertford section of the old Hertford Luton and Dunstable. On the GN section but heading toward the GE section...

[Norton Wood]

Hattons got a close up to the BR Late Crested N7

 

Must say it does look very smart indeed. 

[PhilJ W]

Should not the connecting rods be red?

[Darryl Tooley]

Just now, PhilJ W said:

Should not the connecting rods be red?

Red coupling rods were for high days and holidays on the GE by this time.  69614, the Liverpool Street Pilot, had them; the others, generally no.

 

D

[Izzy]

On 21/10/2019 at 12:51, sb67 said:

Thanks for the info on coaching stock. Did the N7 ever get used for freight/parcels work?

Steve.

Yes. As per a previous post I made there are quite a few shots in various albums showing them shunting and on goods workings in later BR times e.g. the Buntingford branch.

 

Izzy

[31A]

Appreciate the above picture says "sample" so it may not show what will actually be produced, but 69670 was a left hand drive loco whereas the model depicts a right hand drive one.

[The Doc]

Has anyone had a problem with the rear wheels derailing on their model?  Mine is okay when running bunker first, but when running forwards the trailing axle (unpowered) derails at several places on my layout.  It's not the end of the world because the wheels become re-railed further around the layout, after clattering a bit over some pointwork, and the driving wheels remain on the track, but it does look a bit silly.  My track-laying may not be perfect, but other locos manage fine 9 times out of 10.  I've checked the back to back measurements and no problems there, but I wonder if the vertical springing on the rear axle is not strong enough. 

 

Ironically, I've got the opposite problem with a Hornby A4, where the front bogie spring is so stiff that it lifts the front driving wheels clean off the track.

[Flying Pig]

Are the cab front spectacles quite right on the round-top model?  Shouldn't the lower edge follow the curve of the firebox?  These look unchanged from the belpaire version.

[31A]

12 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

Are the cab front spectacles quite right on the round-top model?  Shouldn't the lower edge follow the curve of the firebox?  These look unchanged from the belpaire version.

Sadly I fear you are right.   Oh well, something else to add to the to-do list!