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Oxford N7

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It may come to that, but I think there are also issues with different cab shapes.  More research needed. 

 

 

 

 

And different bunkers on the later ones, I gather.

 

It seems unlikely that Oxford will tool up for all the possible permutations and the Belpaire ones seem to have fewer other variations, possibly why they were chosen?

 

However, members of all the sub-classes eventually ran with round-firebox boilers so problems for possible future LNER and BR versions with that feature should be avoidable through careful numbering choices.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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The following link was given in the warwell thread

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/01/25/notes-from-olympia-1-toy-fair-2017/

 

In it is states

 

'The class had a number of variations through its career, with round top and Belpaire boilers, condensing equipment fitted to some, and variations in side cab window size/shape/position and bunker steps/rails as four varieties off the top of my head. Oxford have identified eight significant variations of the type and currently are proposing to include five variations in due course. With these different versions, the tooling being is being designed and made to accommodate different detail mixes at the outset'

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Guest Midland Mole

The following link was given in the warwell thread

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2017/01/25/notes-from-olympia-1-toy-fair-2017/

 

In it is states

 

'The class had a number of variations through its career, with round top and Belpaire boilers, condensing equipment fitted to some, and variations in side cab window size/shape/position and bunker steps/rails as four varieties off the top of my head. Oxford have identified eight significant variations of the type and currently are proposing to include five variations in due course. With these different versions, the tooling being is being designed and made to accommodate different detail mixes at the outset'

 

Excellent news, more for me to buy in the future! :)

I have heard about people who are planning on collecting every Peckett Hornby produce, and I am considering doing that with the N7 (not the sound ones though). ;)

Alex

 

Edit: Fingers crossed they release 1001 in lined blue one day as well.

Edited by Midland Mole

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If they do this..............

post-294-0-99669300-1485346363_thumb.jpg

 

Then everything else will be paid for!

 

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

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If they don't. then I await Hornby doing an announcement for it, and put in my pre-order!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Edited by 45568

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Guest Midland Mole

I'm still sceptical that Hornby would do an N7, but then again I did not see this or the Bachmann 1P coming either! :D

Alex

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I'm still sceptical that Hornby would do an N7, but then again I did not see this or the Bachmann 1P coming either! :D

Alex

And that sums up fairly nicely where we are today - it is almost impossible to guess what each company will do now. Perhaps as a result of them choosing left field items in the hope of avoiding duplication?

 

Roy

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Yes the N7 along with the Rapido/Model Rail J70  makes two upcoming GER locos. That leaves the J67-69 and the E4 as likely other GE options with the F4-5 and J17 being useful but less likely. Although there are plenty of other LNER options along with the ex NER locos, GNR K2 and C12 being two that spring to mind.

No chance of a J20 then? :jester:

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.... a result of them choosing left field items in the hope of avoiding duplication?

 

"Lickey Banker", anyone?

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Guest Midland Mole

"Lickey Banker", anyone?

 

Strangely enough I was talking to my boss the other week about companies doing models of more limited engines like Bertha, and he reckoned there would be enough appeal to make a model of her commercially viable...so you never know. :)

Alex

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Strangely enough I was talking to my boss the other week about companies doing models of more limited engines like Bertha, and he reckoned there would be enough appeal to make a model of her commercially viable...so you never know. :)

 

Uh-oh....

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No chance of a J20 then? :jester:

Of other GE locos I would still feel confident buying/making a kit or doing a conversion for a  J19, J20, D15, F3, F7 or Thompson B2 without too much worry that as soon as it is done an RTR one will be announced.

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...members of all the sub-classes eventually ran with round-firebox boilers so problems for possible future LNER and BR versions with that feature should be avoidable through careful numbering choices.

 Mine will inevitably have numbers changed appropriate to Hatfield allocated members of the class, as I doubt that any of the relatively few at this shed will be produced. I'll just have to hope that the selections of features Oxford choose are near enough - or readily modifiable - to the right ones for Hatfield.

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Joy decreased somewhat by the realisation that there's no post-1950 version in the first batch.  Renumbering and lining possible of course, but it seems a strange omission.

For "strange" read "inexplicable".

 

Given how many permutations of the Adams Radial boiler they've managed, surely it would be possible to tool for the round-top boiler N7 from the start?

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It is, I confess, a strange and novel experience to read BR-Era modellers lamenting that the version of the prototype they want is not immediately to be catered for.

 

I don't blame them, or mind that they are doing so.  I understand completely their point of view. Indeed, I am inclined toward sympathy.

 

My experience, however, is that when non BR-Era modellers raise similar points, they routinely receive a good kicking for being b1tchers and moaners for their pains. 

 

Life, you see, is seldom fair.

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Guest Midland Mole

It is, I confess, a strange and novel experience to read BR-Era modellers lamenting that the version of the prototype they want is not immediately to be catered for.

 

I don't blame them, or mind that they are doing so.  I understand completely their point of view. Indeed, I am inclined toward sympathy.

 

My experience, however, is that when non BR-Era modellers raise similar points, they routinely receive a good kicking for being b1tchers and moaners for their pains. 

 

Life, you see, is seldom fair.

 

I could not agree more. BR-Era modellers are by far the best catered for in this hobby, and those of us who concentrate on grouping and earlier have often been sidelined in the RTR market.

When Hornby or Bachmann release models of loco designs from the pre-grouping companies, they are almost always modelled in their rebuilt versions. This makes them useless to those of us who do pre-grouping or early grouping.

As Ryde-on-time pointed out in their post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119213-oxford-n7/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2590897 it seems very likely that Oxford will release a later, rebuilt version.

That just means later era modellers will have to wait a bit longer. And I have no doubts that these early versions will sell well.

Alex

 

Edit: Bachmann have shown with the 1P announcement that they are prepared to offer different variations for early or late modellers, but they did not bother doing that for the 1F or 3F. I still maintain the feeling I have always had that the major manufacturers will never take pre-1930s locos seriously.

Edited by Midland Mole

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I'm happy you per grouping boys have something to look forward to. However reality is that the most popular variant would almost certainly be a BR late crest variant. I think someone did a survey a few years ago to see what time period was modelled most and it was certainly late BR steam/ Green Diesel

 

However it could be worse............you could be Scottish! Had high hopes for an 812 in blue or an NBR J36 . When people start talking about Big Bertha remember there are still barren wastelands of indigenous steam types around, Scotland and the LNWR being two immediately obvious ones.

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 I think someone did a survey a few years ago to see what time period was modelled most and it was certainly late BR steam/ Green Diesel

 

 

 

Have you heard the one about the chicken and the egg?

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Guest Midland Mole

However it could be worse............you could be Scottish! Had high hopes for an 812 in blue or an NBR J36 . When people start talking about Big Bertha remember there are still barren wastelands of indigenous steam types around, Scotland and the LNWR being two immediately obvious ones.

 

Trust me, I would have been equally happy if they had announced a 812 instead of the N7. And I would love to see more Scottish designs appear on the market, same with the LNWR.

 

My mention of Bertha was purely a hypothetical situation. I find it highly doubtful Bachmann will suddenly announce it just because my boss thinks it would be commercially viable! :D

 

And anyway, why shouldn't we pre-grouping modellers get something more aimed at us once in a while? When drowning in a never ending sea of BR, sometimes it is nice when a pre-grouping/early grouping raft appears.

Alex

Edited by Midland Mole

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Things move on in this hobby and do not revolve around RMweb members. Back in the 1970's and 80's, we painted mostly Big Four with a fair amount of pre-grouping thrown in. By the 1990's BR was being specified by customers. For the past 10 years it has been almost all BR.

 

It is often said on here that we model what we remember as kids. Those dependent on RTR can only model according to what is available off the shelf! Those with choices can model any era and often do.

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 Not so sure that the Belpaire is quite as restrictive to BR use as is imagined; reboilerings to round top occurred as late as 1956, and several were scrapped in the 57 - 60 period still in Belpaire form as the steam rundown got underway. I imagine the scrapping was occasioned by end of life of the Belpaire boiler.

 

"Lickey Banker", anyone?

 A little surprising that neither Bachmann or Hornby - or Dapol come to that -  have not leapt at this. Just put the big headlight on the front of 9F 92079 and job done.

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I could not agree more. BR-Era modellers are by far the best catered for in this hobby, and those of us who concentrate on grouping and earlier have often been sidelined in the RTR market.

When Hornby or Bachmann release models of loco designs from the pre-grouping companies, they are almost always modelled in their rebuilt versions. This makes them useless to those of us who do pre-grouping or early grouping.

As Ryde-on-time pointed out in their post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119213-oxford-n7/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2590897 it seems very likely that Oxford will release a later, rebuilt version.

That just means later era modellers will have to wait a bit longer. And I have no doubts that these early versions will sell well.

Alex

 

Edit: Bachmann have shown with the 1P announcement that they are prepared to offer different variations for early or late modellers, but they did not bother doing that for the 1F or 3F. I still maintain the feeling I have always had that the major manufacturers will never take pre-1930s locos seriously.

You may well be right, but there is one factor that is seldom mentioned when it comes to the dominant period catered for.

 

The manufacturers have clear indication that pre-1948 models sell less well. Hornby's steam era releases usually comprise three equal sized batches of two models in BR livery and one in group era but, despite there only being half the number of models produced it is, more often than not, the Big Four versions that remain available when all the BR ones have gone.  

 

The manufacturers serve a market they understand and can, in most cases, rely upon. BR era, one livery, two emblems (three if you include "British Railways" lettered) - job done. Do a Group era one and at least half the "customers" will grouse that out of the three or four possible liveries, it's never their favourite that gets produced.

 

The same (or worse) goes for pre-grouping. Take the Adams Radials as an example; the LSWR existed for longer than BR operated steam traction. Despite numerous detail differences, these locos remained relatively unaltered from building to grouping but carried at least four liveries at different times. Announce one and the web will be deluged with people stating they won't buy it because they don't think any of them were still in that livery in the year they model or it was introduced the year after. Fair enough but please recognise that "pre-group" isn't a single era - it's more like five and the "Group era" two or three. Compare the LMS in 1925 and 1935 - two entirely different scenes with around half the locomotive fleet replaced or about to be. To satisfy everyone who models any era in the half century before nationalisation, the manufacturers would need to make around eight models compared to a maximum of three for BR, and guys, there really ARE less of you.

 

B.R Southern Region modellers are nowadays better served in an average year than we used to be in a good decade. That came about by us having put our money where our mouths are whenever something did get made for us - even if it wasn't exactly our hearts desire. My modelling time frame covers a period of five or six years and I know which items shouldn't appear together so switch things around to avoid anachronisms. If loco (a) is on the layout, loco (z) mustn't be. 

 

If two modellers insist on only buying models that are correct for (say) the summer of 1929 or the spring of 1938, it is inevitable that the trade will produce more misses than hits for both. Not only that but if a model suits one of them, it'll usually be wrong for the other. The Law of Sod applies.

 

John      

Edited by Dunsignalling

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I remember those days.

 

When nearly everyone wanted Big Four and the BR liveried models were heavily discounted. The same with the diesels where the modern modellers wanted the blue ones and it was the green versions that were cheaper.

 

Funny how it is apparently now the opposite.

 

 

 

Jason

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Guest Midland Mole

I understand the hobby, and I understand the market. I work in a shop, so I see what people buy. But I also hear what people say. And I know there IS a larger market out there for early grouping and pre-grouping than people think there is. Obviously it is never going to be the majority, but it is a healthy size.

 

My annoyance is not against what the manufacturers offer us. My annoyance is that when a loco/coach/wagon like this is announced, the BR crowd immediately start flexing their majority muscles and complaining that the model does not quite fit what they do. And that runs the risk of discouraging companies from doing ventures like this in the future and just sticking to how the locos looked under BR.

 

Why cant people just be positive about announcements like this?

Alex

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....The manufacturers serve a market they understand ..... Do a Group era one and at least half the "customers" will grouse that out of the three or four possible liveries, it's never their favourite that gets produced...

 

....If two modellers insist on only buying models that are correct for the summer of 1929 or the spring of 1938, it is inevitable that the trade will produce more misses than hits for both. Not only that but if a model suits one of them, it'll usually be wrong for the other. The Law of Sod applies.....

Oddly enough, it sort of hints that an unpainted model might serve for the (pre-)Group era, and then customers can give it any livery they like. Only problem I can see with that is the warranty claims if the model goes Pete Tong, leading to a dispute over it no longer being in the form that it left the retailer.......unless perhaps the guarantee covers the mechanical parts only.

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