Oxford Rail Annouce 4-Wheel Toad

[The Stationmaster]

The post-1936 version has arrived at Hattons

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/254707/Oxford_Rail_OR76TOB002_4_wheel_Toad_brake_van_56034_in_GWR_livery_with_plated_sides_Acton_/StockDetail.aspx

 

As ever one can but wish that people using era numbers and quoting livery dates would get them right.  The livery is not 'Post 1936' as RU branding appears not to have come into use until WWII, c.1942 and it very definitely wasn't in use in 1936.  

[tomparryharry]

The post-1936 version has arrived at Hattons

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/254707/Oxford_Rail_OR76TOB002_4_wheel_Toad_brake_van_56034_in_GWR_livery_with_plated_sides_Acton_/StockDetail.aspx

 Oh dear!  Not quite correct, I think. GW vans got signwritten with the depot, and what the particular diagram entailed. As others have said, R.U was often not restricted use, but restricted diagram. Conditions of use for the diagrams were quite extensive. These helped to stop imbalance on the diagrams, where you might have no brake vans at the pit-head, and 'thousands of the bu**ers at the port sorting sidings.

 

Ian.

Edited January 19, 2018 by tomparryharry

[The Johnster]

But, with a splash of paint covering the offending branding, entirely suitable in heavily weathered condition for my early 50s BLT!  It remains on the shopping list, and if I can pick one up at the small Cardiff show tomorrow I will be a tolerably happy bunny.  If I can follow this up with steak and chips and a pint of smooth in the Halfway, I will be a very happy bunny!

[The Stationmaster]

 Oh dear!  Not quite correct, I think. GW vans got signwritten with the depot, and what the particular diagram entailed. As others have said, R.U was often not restricted use, but restricted diagram. Conditions of use for the diagrams were quite extensive. These helped to stop imbalance on the diagrams, where you might have no brake vans at the pit-head, and 'thousands of the bu**ers at the port sorting sidings.

 

Ian.

 

Being pedantic RU meant 'Restricted User' not 'restricted use' - in other words the user of that particular van was the location named on it and it used RU vans to work its turns.  This system was introduced when individual allocation of vans to individual Guards was ended, almost certainly due to wartme operating conditions.

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

Whatever the issues may or may not be with these, they are competitively priced and very easy to take to bits!

 

 

Let Castle bodgery commence!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[57xx]

Guess you'll be needing one of these to make your Little Didcot version. 

[Castle]

Hi Ric,

 

Both of these vans will be vandalised, er, I mean modified to make 2 different vehicles. One is for Little Didcot and the leftovers from that will give me enough bits for the other one which is for a friend.

 

And don’t be silly, I’m not using aerials - it’s going to have a satellite dish and Wi-fi of course...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[The Johnster]

I bought the late GW liveried version on my shopping list yesterday; it is to be allocated to Cwmdimbath's daily pick up freight as I doubt it would have been considered powerful enough for coal work.  Not taken it to bits yet, but my initial impressions are favourable.  I am aware of the issues concerning footboards with a cut out for a non-existent axle box in the middle and the lamp hatch end bungalow windows, but am not that bothered; both are solvable, in the first case with a bit of Milliput and in the second with my intention to ultimately model the vehicle with the lamp hatch open so that the interior can be seen (I am thinking about opening the balcony end door as well).

 

The moulding is crisp and convincing, and rivets on the sheeting and angle irons are sharp, not lumpy.  Glazing is very convincing, and the livery is neatly applied.  I have a particular hatred of white roofs, especially unpainted white plastic ones, but it will not be in this state for long.  It runs well, though one wheelset has brake blocks that drag a little, though the wheels revolve freely enough under the van's own weight.  This is not the worst thing in the world on a brake van, and I am not going to do anything about it; it may improve with running in anyway.  It is priced at a level at which even a poverty stricken pensioner like me cannot leave it in the shop; I paid £12.99 for mine at Antic in Cardiff.  Incidentally, they are flying off the shelf, and this was the last but one in stock; they have a good reserve of 6 wheelers at the same price, which suggests the 4 wheeler is more in demand.

 

In comparison with the Hornby, surely the standard by which toads must be judged these days, it hold up well, and I have to salute Ox for going for a different diagram, even if it is an afterthought of the 6 wheeler.  The separate handrails are, to my eye, a little chunkier than H's, but this may be a function of the van being smaller.  Just went and checked; they are the same thickness as far as I can tell and this is an optical illusion.  I can't really comment about the finish as the liveries are different (my H van is in BR grey) but the H is a flatter finish which I prefer.  Ox beats H on accessibility to the interior and interior detail, despite this being invisible in normal circumstances.  I prefer H's brake standard, mainly because the Ox one is aligned perfectly along the axis of the van, a very unlikely thing!  Underframe detail is about on a par.  Ox beats H hands down on price, and one wonders if H are in more serious trouble than they are letting on if they have to overcharge by this amount, and how future Ox products will fare now that H are effectively their owners.

 

One also wonders how Baccy will react, but it will be certain to be 'eventually' given the wait for the 94xx...

 

Later today, my new van will have it's roof painted matt black and be given a fairly serious dose of weathering; on a layout set in the 50s a van in late GW livery has been in service without overhaul for some time!

[mikeharvey22]

one wonders if H are in more serious trouble than they are letting on if they have to overcharge by this amount, and how future Ox products will fare now that H are effectively their owners.

As far as has been reported accurately Hornby has a minority stake in LCD Enterprises, and DOES NOT own Oxford. They have an option to purchase the majority shareholding in 3 years time subject to certain performance criteria linked to the new CEO's role.

[The Johnster]

I have, over the course of the evening, cut out the lamp hatch window (and made a bit of a mess of it so a new window frame must be fabricated), painted the interior, provided a stove pipe (cotton wool bud plastic stem), and weathered the model; it is now in service and I am still happy with it.

 

But I'm not faffing around with photos at this time of night!

[lofty1966]

I have, over the course of the evening, cut out the lamp hatch window (and made a bit of a mess of it so a new window frame must be fabricated), painted the interior, provided a stove pipe (cotton wool bud plastic stem), and weathered the model; it is now in service and I am still happy with it.

 

But I'm not faffing around with photos at this time of night!

All you had to do was take the van apart and gently prise the glazing off.

[The Johnster]

Yes, but I wanted to model the lamp hatch window open, so had to pare away the frame moulding, or it would have just looked as if the glass was broken and missing, and it all went horribly wrong.  I damaged the outer frame, and have now cut back to the planking so that I can replace the entire window reveal's outer frame as I have also got rid of the superfluous 'bungalow' top light.  I am a hamfisted idiot sometimes!

 

The idea was to be able to view the van's interior, and to that end I have also left one of the side windows opened (they opened on these small vans, presumably for access to the side lamp irons that it carries).  Whether this was worth the effort is debatable, as it is still pretty dark and gloomy in there, as it was in reality, and next time I have the top off I will paint the ceiling white to try and distribute the light a bit better.

 

The lamp irons, incidentally, are another point of superiority of Hornby; proper steel ones capable of carrying Modelu side lamps as well as the tail lamp brackets.

Edited January 23, 2018 by The Johnster

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

If it’s of any interest to readers of this thread, I have posted my build using the Oxford TOAD on my Little Didcot thread here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/page-44&do=findComment&comment=3017181

 

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[The Johnster]

Nice.

[Castle]

Thanks Johnster!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Siberian Snooper]

That bash is definitely something different and I look forward to the AA7 bash.If it proves to be a success I may have a go myself.

 

Thanks.

[Castle]

Hi SS,

 

Thanks - I think the AA7 will be a bit of shorten the roof and interior moulding, chassis cut ‘n’ shut and then new van sides and outer end. Then modify and refit all those lovely detail bits. Should be interesting but I have a few bits in the works before that including finishing the first pair of brakedown train mess and tool vans, I have a RTR bash going on to do a CROCODILE F and another mate has just asked for help with a rather nice lump of resin in the shape of 18100. He has been very good and done all the horrible clean up of the resin parts so I couldn’t say no. Having built 18000, it will be nice to do the other brother! It will keep me busy I suppose. I’ll post the AA7 on here and Little Didcot when I’m finished.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Chuffed 1]

Concerning the bogosity of some heritage railways and stock, I recently saw an interesting document re the rebuilding of the Lynton and Barnstable railway. The organisation proposing this are currently seeking planning permission to reinstate much of the track on the original route. The planning authorities, apparently, require that the rebuild be truly authentic and not "pseudo-historical".

Not surprised. Fair plays to Exmoor National Park. The recently-built Lyn is a classic example, mechanically different to the original, can't keep its feet and the livery an 'approximation' of the loco in its final guise. On a similar vein, the chimneys on various preserved locos (1450 and SECR 263 spring to mind) are of a subtly different pattern to those carried when the loco was withdrawn.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Chuffed 1

[cctransuk]

Not surprised. Fair plays to Exmoor National Park. The recently-built Lyn is a classic example, mechanically different to the original, can't keep its feet and the livery an 'approximation' of the loco in its final guise. On a similar vein, the chimneys on various preserved locos (1450 and SECR 263 spring to mind) are of a subtly different pattern to those carried when the loco was withdrawn.

 

All very fine and dandy - but in a few years time, when we're all dead and gone, who will know the difference?

 

.... and who's to say whether the chimneys when the locos were withdrawn are more authentic than those with which they were built - or anything in between?

 

Historical accuracy is a complete myth - history was never static, any more than it is now.

 

There's an awful lot of twaddle spoken and written about recreating the past.

 

Regards,

john Isherwood.

[Chuffed 1]

All very fine and dandy - but in a few years time, when we're all dead and gone, who will know the difference?

 

.... and who's to say whether the chimneys when the locos were withdrawn are more authentic than those with which they were built - or anything in between?

 

Historical accuracy is a complete myth - history was never static, any more than it is now.

 

There's an awful lot of twaddle spoken and written about recreating the past.

 

Regards,

john Isherwood.

You mean like Oxford Rail's 4w Toads being inaccurate?!

[cctransuk]

You mean like Oxford Rail's 4w Toads being inaccurate?!

 

No - you and I were talking about preserved railways; models can be produced with accurate fittings for the livery depicted.

 

Preserved railways are usually limited by what components are obtainable, and if they choose to paint the finished item in a modification of the original livery, they are free to do so.

 

Don't let that discourage you, though; if you were to offer to pay for more accurate(?) fittings to be produced for 1450 and SECR 263, or for the Lynton & Barnstaple loco to be rebuilt to your superior standards and painted in a more accurate(?) livery, I doubt that you'd be turned away.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[sidmouth]

Having spent over 40 years on and off railway modelling I think we are incredibly spoilt with the variety of models available and the levels of detail that were unthinkable years ago 

 

one thing that perhaps hasn't changed is the concept of a generic wagon that can carry multiple different liveries . Most consumers may not know the difference and if it looks ok then it probably is , however what comes across here is that we have moved backwards to the generic nature of the 70's . I don't model to rivet counting detail but I do want it to look right . If it doesn't then in the nicest sense it isn't on my purchase list 

 

There really is no excuse for any manaufacturer to get it wrong given the breadth of knowledge out there 

[Chuffed 1]

No - you and I were talking about preserved railways; models can be produced with accurate fittings for the livery depicted.

 

Preserved railways are usually limited by what components are obtainable, and if they choose to paint the finished item in a modification of the original livery, they are free to do so.

 

Don't let that discourage you, though; if you were to offer to pay for more accurate(?) fittings to be produced for 1450 and SECR 263, or for the Lynton & Barnstaple loco to be rebuilt to your superior standards and painted in a more accurate(?) livery, I doubt that you'd be turned away.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Easy on tiger!  I doubt if you are building a brand new version of L&B Lyn you'd be constrained by 'what components are available' or to ask that it be constructed to the fidelity of the original (no gas-producer system, no heightened boiler pressure or piston valves) yet able to pull 4 coaches up 1 in 50 and be correctly liveried? Accuracy is hardly 'your superior standards'.

Or are you content with a look-alike without historical accuracy?

 

In which case the Oxford Toad is just the brake van for you!

Edited January 28, 2018 by Chuffed 1

[cctransuk]

Easy on tiger!  I doubt if you are building a brand new version of L&B Lyn you'd be constrained by 'what components are available' or to ask that it be constructed to the fidelity of the original (no gas-producer system, no heightened boiler pressure or piston valves) yet able to pull 4 coaches up 1 in 50 and be correctly liveried? Accuracy is hardly 'your superior standards'.

Or are you content with a look-alike without historical accuracy?

 

In which case the Oxford Toad is just the brake van for you!

 

Why does a new-build loco have to be historically accurate? Have any of the new-builds of recent years been historically accurate?

 

We do not live in an historically accurate world - this is 2018. New builds take into account current technology - they have to comply with current regulation.

 

If 71000 had been restored to an historically accurate condition it would be still running(?) with a defective draughting system and still under-performing as it did under BR.

 

To preserve or build a loco in historically accurate condition would be to produce a stuffed and lifeless artefact - history has been and gone; we have to live in the present.

 

..... and please don't go on about the Oxford TOAD - even if it is the subject of this thread!

 

Historical accuracy in a model IS perfectly achievable, and Oxford's travesty is the result of either poor research or plain old 'don't care' thinking.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Chuffed 1]

Why does a new-build loco have to be historically accurate? Have any of the new-builds of recent years been historically accurate?

 

We do not live in an historically accurate world - this is 2018. New builds take into account current technology - they have to comply with current regulation.

 

If 71000 had been restored to an historically accurate condition it would be still running(?) with a defective draughting system and still under-performing as it did under BR.

 

To preserve or build a loco in historically accurate condition would be to produce a stuffed and lifeless artefact - history has been and gone; we have to live in the present.

 

..... and please don't go on about the Oxford TOAD - even if it is the subject of this thread!

 

Historical accuracy in a model IS perfectly achievable, and Oxford's travesty is the result of either poor research or plain old 'don't care' thinking.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

But John, follow your logic onward, and 'living in the present', a bogie diesel would be the logical end result! By all means have a technologically-advanced steam loco, but don't confuse it with a historically-accurate example. Leaving aside the difference in performance, it ultimately degrades the integrity of those examples that show us exactly how railways were in the 1930's/40's/50's.

If commercial interests are really uppermost, then why not go the whole hog and slap a 'Thomas' face on it?  That'd bring in the kids...

There is a parallel here with the subject of this thread.  Model Railways and Heritage Railways have similar markets, the historical buff, the 'I don't care as long as it's steam' and then the day trippers.  Oxford's Toad will surely satisfy the latter two groups as much as a 'look-alike' loco would on a 12" to 1' scale model.

I think the point is, if you care about historical accuracy, would you feel short-changed by both?