michaelp Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Hi all, I know next to nothing about soldering but i want to build up some Sprat and Winkle couplings, I assume that my Antex 25W iron and 60/40 tin lead rosin cored solder is no good for brass as the solder doesn't seem to want to stick to brass. Could someone recommend a suitable iron, solder and flux if it is needed please? Thanks in advance for any advice Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD45T-2 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 The ultimate method is to use a resistance soldering unit but they are very expensive. For mortals, and those with limited budgets, a proper brass flux - Carrs or Gaugemaster's - plus a flux-free solder with that iron should be adequate. As with all soldering operations, make sure that the workpiece is spotless before starting and the iron is at temperature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Thank you for the quick reply. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 The ultimate method is to use a resistance soldering unit but they are very expensive. For mortals, and those with limited budgets, a proper brass flux - Carrs or Gaugemaster's - plus a flux-free solder with that iron should be adequate. As with all soldering operations, make sure that the workpiece is spotless before starting and the iron is at temperature. Had a quick search for flux free solder, all I am able to find is lead free solder, is this the same stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Your Antex is the perfect tool for the job. Cored solder should work but its far better to use 145 degree solder (as sold for etched kits) and phosphoric acid flux, Eileens will have everything that you need. Make sure that the work is clean, (a scratch brush is usefull) and that the tip of the iron is tinned properly (that it has a thin coat of solder, if in doubt clean the tip and re-tin). Practising on scrap etch is time well spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 There's no problem soldering brass provided the material is clean and you have the correct amount of heat applied to the material. The secret is to heat the clean material quickly and take the solder to the heated joint. As others have mentioned a fibre glass brush is useful to clean the surface of any material. Is use an Antex 660TC which has a 50w iron. I want the iron as hot as possible so use the 425 degree setting to heat the material as quick as possible and then take the solder to the heated joint. It should run immediately and the finished joint should be bright and shiny. Anything less is a poor joint through lack of heat of cleanliness of the parts you are trying to solder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Eileens: https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1124&name=straight-wire&Itemid=189 Other suppliers are available. Prices have gone through the roof, glad I bought my 0.5kg reel last year... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 I would recommend the wild swan book on etched loco construction which explains the process, including how to tin and look after the iron etc. I learned from scratch following that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I have both a 25w antex and a 50 watt temperature controlled antex iron. If you're just doing some couplings, your 25 watter will be fine. It'll also be fine for electrical soldering and track too. Definitely use 145 solder or similar from gaugemaster or eileens, and use a decent flux, formulated for brass. As others have said, a clean joint is a happy joint. Also remember to clean the work after soldering to remove any flux residue. If you ever plan on making wagons/coaches or locomotives, I would highly recommend the 50 W antex temperature controlled irons (either digital or analogue). You'll then be able to solder white metal and brass with less fear of making a molten blob out of the white metal. Happy soldering... once you've mastered it, you'll never look back, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Entirely personal, but I prefer Carrs 179deg solder for brass work as it has 2% silver (Ag) which makes it flow better. (Available from other suppliers also) Whichever you use, as others have advocated, cleanliness is a must, and just as important, clean afterwards to wash off the residual flux!! Regards, Deano. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I personally use a Weller 40w iron for my main construction work, and I've just invested in a 'Chinese' soldering station with a temperature controlled iron and heat gun for more delicate work. The soldering station is working very well, but from a personal point of view I do like the Weller for construction. As has been mentioned earlier, cleanliness is God, both before and after, as is a well tinned tip. But as Gordon pointed out above, a quick and adequate heat to the joint is paramount if you want a good flow. Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 If using lead free solder it must be the 2% silver type (which is about four times as expensive as the stuff without silver, so watch out for supposed bargains). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi all, I know next to nothing about soldering but i want to build up some Sprat and Winkle couplings, I assume that my Antex 25W iron and 60/40 tin lead rosin cored solder is no good for brass as the solder doesn't seem to want to stick to brass. Could someone recommend a suitable iron, solder and flux if it is needed please? Thanks in advance for any advice Michael You are using the iron and solder I use and I don't have any problem. I wonder if the workpiece is clean. I use a fibre glass brush to clean up before I do soldering. They are obtainable from Eileens and Squires as are the refills. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 Definitely use 145 solder or similar from gaugemaster or eileens, and use a decent flux, formulated for brass. As others have said, a clean joint is a happy joint. Also remember to clean the work after soldering to remove any flux residue. I still regard myself in my early days of soldering, so on the flux question does "formulated for brass" mean that a plain phosphoric acid solution won't do the job very well? On the subject of flux don't do what I do, and that's knock over the bottle and spill it all over the workbench! Since then I've usually secured it with a roll of blu-tack around (not under) the base. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 I have only ever used plain phosphoric acid let down 5-1/20% whether it's brass or N/S etc. It might not be totally correct - (might actually be completely wrong!) - but it has always seemed to work for me. It's just the application brushes I seem to get through........ Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD45T-2 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hobby Holidays do a flux for brass and whitemetal that contains phosphoric acid; Gaugemaster do a flux for brass or you could make your own with 9-12% phshoric acid diluted with 1 or 2% isopropyl alcohol and distilled water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I still regard myself in my early days of soldering, so on the flux question does "formulated for brass" mean that a plain phosphoric acid solution won't do the job very well? On the subject of flux don't do what I do, and that's knock over the bottle and spill it all over the workbench! Since then I've usually secured it with a roll of blu-tack around (not under) the base. When I say formulated for brass, I mean that it says 'for soldering brass' or 'for soldering white metal' on the jar. As others more clever than me have mentioned, you can make your own, but I'm far to lazy for that! Blutac on the base of the flux bottle is the key to soldering! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 You need a clean surface to solder. That is the main aim, a seperate flux, depends on the job, I have the hobby holliday stuff, plumbing stuff and rosin stuff. All for different jobs. Lead based solder is best, got some cored from Wilkinsons on Sunday!!!! But for brass 188 or 145 is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 The Ersin Multicore 60/40 tin/lead solder I have used since a kid in the 60's is now sold by Henkel under the Loctite brand name - although the labels do seem to vary a bit - 362 EN60 Savbit 1 alloy is the common one and available in a range of reel and wire sizes. The reel colour is Red. Be aware that a substitue lead-free cored solder is also made, 99C 362 ,and the reel colour is Green. I got mine here - only a £1 postage - usual disclaimer: http://www.axminster.co.uk/multicore-self-fluxing-solder-610114 Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
serron Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Knocking over flux bottles? No problem. Regards. Serron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think you could use your existing solder, but just get some liquid flux on to a joint which preferably has been cleaned. Brass and nickle silver are both easy to solder, steel I have found needs a slightly more aggressive flux Keep the soldering iron tip clean but not with anything abrasive, a clean tip is hotter and will do the job better. I use a wet sponge as the coating on Antex tips is quite thin and if damaged will rust away, if yours is damaged buy another. Might be worth getting a larger tip bit as well for the bigger jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gz3xzf Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Hi all, I know next to nothing about soldering but i want to build up some Sprat and Winkle couplings, I assume that my Antex 25W iron and 60/40 tin lead rosin cored solder is no good for brass as the solder doesn't seem to want to stick to brass. Could someone recommend a suitable iron, solder and flux if it is needed please? Thanks in advance for any advice Michael Michael, I bought a Maplins Solder Station a couple of years ago and have been really happy with it; there are some drawbacks with it, but it is reasonably priced. As well as all the other points above one additional note I would make about soldering anything is that the work piece, around the joint, needs to get to the solder melting point for the solder to flow around it; if it is not hot enough you can get blobs of solder which have not adhered to the work. Knocking over flux bottles? No problem. Regards. Serron. Serron, I do love that bottle stand, having wasted more flux, poly solvent, etc. than I care to remember, I now have an old glass Gu Desert pot, but your solution is much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Michael, I bought a Maplins Solder Station a couple of years ago and have been really happy with it; there are some drawbacks with it, but it is reasonably priced. As well as all the other points above one additional note I would make about soldering anything is that the work piece, around the joint, needs to get to the solder melting point for the solder to flow around it; if it is not hot enough you can get blobs of solder which have not adhered to the work. Serron, I do love that bottle stand, having wasted more flux, poly solvent, etc. than I care to remember, I now have an old glass Gu Desert pot, but your solution is much better. I too have the Maplins 60w station. More than pleased. An old Weller 40w variable (My first variable one) had its limitations! An RSU; do most work with this. My solution for 'spills' is decanting into mini jam jars, thus. And a dropper bottle, handy on the rare occasion if you can't get a brush in! Regards, Deano. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I use these and they work well and last for ages. No spill too..... http://uk.farnell.com/circuitworks/cw8100/dispensing-pen-flux-no-clean-9g/dp/130692?mckv=a35ctscF_dc%7Cpcrid%7C78108399909%7C&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-67754034151&CAAGID=20220711909&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-CIRCUITWORKS&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiA2abEBRCdx7PqqunM1CYSJABf3qva67GebJP0ZhQ632spRJRCH7qnQJkYi6bl4KVtpxMfExoCvLDw_wcB&CAWELAID=120173390000038823 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekl Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 When I first tried soldering brass I had similar problems: I found that pre-tinning the brass helped. May be worth trying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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