Illustrated Clayton Class 17 Historial Review

['CHARD]

Anyone the proud owner of this, and able to tell me if the contents at least have been proof read?

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Why?

 

Mike.

['CHARD]

Why?

 

Mike.

 

Beause I'm interested in getting a opy.

[Welly]

I've got a copy and have not spotted any spelling clangers so far...

 

If you like Clagtons then it's a good book for your shelf.

[Dubaimike]

Is there any text about their service history and problems or is it all pictures? The spelling howler on the cover has put me off buying it so far.

 

['CHARD]

13 minutes ago, Dubaimike said:

Is there any text about their service history and problems or is it all pictures? The spelling howler on the cover has put me off buying it so far.

 

 

Front cover howler aside, this is a great addition to the collection.  I've not got it to hand, but it's well written and researched, with plenty of otherwise unpublished photographs.

 

EDIT:  I've now located it and confirm that it's crammed with data, brilliant stuff!

Edited April 18, 2020 by 'CHARD
New information.

[Dubaimike]

Thanks Chard. One to get to absorb during lockdown then.

 

[pinzaboy]

Hi

This is a terrific book with great images and text. You won't be disappointed.

 

Just looking at mine and I'm afraid I can't see the howler on the cover!!

 

Can someone advise what it is?

 

Thanks

 

Tim

[jonny777]

35 minutes ago, pinzaboy said:

Hi

This is a terrific book with great images and text. You won't be disappointed.

 

Just looking at mine and I'm afraid I can't see the howler on the cover!!

 

Can someone advise what it is?

 

Thanks

 

Tim

 

Yes, they've missed the 'C' out of HISTORICAL. 

 

Mind you, maybe the author was trying to be clever and the book is written in some Middle English prose; or maybe they just couldn't fit the full word in that font/size?

Edited April 18, 2020 by jonny777

[pinzaboy]

4 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

Yes, they've missed the 'C' out of HISTORICAL. 

Interestingly my copy is spelled correctly!!

We are talking about the Booklaw book by John Hooper aren't we?

[jonny777]

1 minute ago, pinzaboy said:

Interestingly my copy is spelled correctly!!

We are talking about the Booklaw book by John Hooper aren't we?

 

We are, yes. This is from Book Law's website....

 

[russ p]

I got this last year excellent book ,,some fantastic pictures of them working in the NE

[pinzaboy]

8 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

We are, yes. This is from Book Law's website....

 

I see what you mean! I imagine I can't post a pic of my book with copyright laws etc but I can assure one and all that my copy has the correct spelling of 'Historical'

Tim

 

[26power]

4 hours ago, Dubaimike said:

Is there any text about their service history and problems or is it all pictures? The spelling howler on the cover has put me off buying it so far.

 

Funnily enough I just read my copy earlier this week, having had it for about three years and only getting part way through it at the time of receiving it. 

 

To try and answer your questions, there is very limited information about problems, other than the usual general comments about unreliability, e.g. no input from maintenance staff, operating staff etc. and no information on availability figures.  No coverage of what the mechanical issues with them were, even those requiring early rectification, or whether depots started to get on top of them. 

 

There are a few titbits.  One caption of one at St Rollox says "This works especially did wonders with the troublesome Claytons ..." but doesn't expand on what that work was.  There is also a description in one caption of the small door immediately in front of the cab (to the main generator compartment)  being left open by some drivers to increase ventilation because the filters in these doors clogged before they were due for scheduled renewal.  Get the feeling the author maybe knows more but hasn't covered it all!

 

There are three pages from a Driver's Assistant about their operation at Barrow Hill. 

 

There is a list of "Works visits", partly based on Engine History Cards and Engine Record Cards but the author advises these are thin on the ground.

 

There are plenty of photographs, mainly in black and white and reproduced at a decent size - often two images/page, sometimes three but the latter are still a reasonable size.  A lot of loco portrait type images but also a good few on various workings, including a few sets of images of one working.  Quality of them is generally good, if not excellent.  A smaller selection of colour images when in service.  Approximately 24, 5 of which are in blue livery.  The latter not my era but they are a pretty disappointing selection.  Also about 30 in colour of it in preservation - a set of detail images.

 

Unfortunately no overall potted history by loco, like in at least some of "The book of .." series for some steam classes.  A lot of the information is probably in here, just not set out by individual loco for all aspects.  There is a list of allocations, loco by loco.  The livery information in particular seems pretty limited, but that might just not be available.

 

Also missing is any explanation of why the design was developed or its context and why it was just by Clayton.  e.g. did the BTC put out a brief to more than just one Company.

 

A few minor gripes.  The author has obviously identified how to distinguish which end is No. 1 end, as there is reference to which end is leading in a few of the photo captions but he doesn't explicitly explain it nor is it indicated on the two drawings included - General Arrangements from Clayton's, one showing interior detail.  I did work it out from the text describing what end some equipment (exhausters?) in the boxes beside the cab was at but couldn't find it again when I looked just now.  Also, a proof read should have easily sorted out a few typo type issues and poorly structured listings.

 

From a modeller's perspective probably has all you need.  From a BR diesel history perspective it seems somewhat lacking.  Is anyone aware of any coverage of issues in, say a "class history" in a magazine, e.g, Railway Magazine or Railways illustrated?

 

Cover price was £26.99 when published in 2016 although I think I have seen it discounted on some stands at model railway exhibitions.  Mine was a Christmas gift but overall I think I would have still bought it at full price for myself, given a long standing interest in the class - I managed to get an MTK kit of one up and running in OO about forty years ago!

 

Hope this is of assistance.  BTW, my copy doesn't have the cover typo!

[Trainshed Terry]

Dose it include the super Clayton or HP1?

 

Terry.

[Dubaimike]

2 hours ago, 26power said:

Funnily enough I just read my copy earlier this week, having had it for about three years and only getting part way through it at the time of receiving it. 

 

To try and answer your questions, there is very limited information about problems, other than the usual general comments about unreliability, e.g. no input from maintenance staff, operating staff etc. and no information on availability figures.  No coverage of what the mechanical issues with them were, even those requiring early rectification, or whether depots started to get on top of them. 

 

There are a few titbits.  One caption of one at St Rollox says "This works especially did wonders with the troublesome Claytons ..." but doesn't expand on what that work was.  There is also a description in one caption of the small door immediately in front of the cab (to the main generator compartment)  being left open by some drivers to increase ventilation because the filters in these doors clogged before they were due for scheduled renewal.  Get the feeling the author maybe knows more but hasn't covered it all!

 

There are three pages from a Driver's Assistant about their operation at Barrow Hill. 

 

There is a list of "Works visits", partly based on Engine History Cards and Engine Record Cards but the author advises these are thin on the ground.

 

There are plenty of photographs, mainly in black and white and reproduced at a decent size - often two images/page, sometimes three but the latter are still a reasonable size.  A lot of loco portrait type images but also a good few on various workings, including a few sets of images of one working.  Quality of them is generally good, if not excellent.  A smaller selection of colour images when in service.  Approximately 24, 5 of which are in blue livery.  The latter not my era but they are a pretty disappointing selection.  Also about 30 in colour of it in preservation - a set of detail images.

 

Unfortunately no overall potted history by loco, like in at least some of "The book of .." series for some steam classes.  A lot of the information is probably in here, just not set out by individual loco for all aspects.  There is a list of allocations, loco by loco.  The livery information in particular seems pretty limited, but that might just not be available.

 

Also missing is any explanation of why the design was developed or its context and why it was just by Clayton.  e.g. did the BTC put out a brief to more than just one Company.

 

A few minor gripes.  The author has obviously identified how to distinguish which end is No. 1 end, as there is reference to which end is leading in a few of the photo captions but he doesn't explicitly explain it nor is it indicated on the two drawings included - General Arrangements from Clayton's, one showing interior detail.  I did work it out from the text describing what end some equipment (exhausters?) in the boxes beside the cab was at but couldn't find it again when I looked just now.  Also, a proof read should have easily sorted out a few typo type issues and poorly structured listings.

 

From a modeller's perspective probably has all you need.  From a BR diesel history perspective it seems somewhat lacking.  Is anyone aware of any coverage of issues in, say a "class history" in a magazine, e.g, Railway Magazine or Railways illustrated?

 

Cover price was £26.99 when published in 2016 although I think I have seen it discounted on some stands at model railway exhibitions.  Mine was a Christmas gift but overall I think I would have still bought it at full price for myself, given a long standing interest in the class - I managed to get an MTK kit of one up and running in OO about forty years ago!

 

Hope this is of assistance.  BTW, my copy doesn't have the cover typo!

Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'll have to think about whether to get a copy. What interests me most in the case of the short-lived diesel classes is why they were unreliable and what was done to try and improve things. It sounds like there may not be much new in this one. Maybe Pen & Sword will do a volume on the Claytons in the same vein as their class 21/29 book, which gives a lot of detail on problems in service.

[Welly]

12 hours ago, Trainshed Terry said:

Dose it include the super Clayton or HP1?

 

Terry.

Only a very brief mention in the text and no illustration of it.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

With reference to the content of the book, information can only be in there if it is available, mention has been made to the scarcity of works records, so without the input of someone with that information the book will seem light in that department, and could even have been discounted at the initial concept stage of the book.

Comparing the book to the "Book of the Warships" as an example, whilst I'm a fan of hydraulics, I find the book a bit too dry and technical in some ways, maybe to others the Clayton book doesn't float their boat, but whatever, IMHO, it's a worthwhile purchase.

 

Mike.

[26power]

On 18/04/2020 at 22:26, Dubaimike said:

Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'll have to think about whether to get a copy. What interests me most in the case of the short-lived diesel classes is why they were unreliable and what was done to try and improve things. It sounds like there may not be much new in this one. Maybe Pen & Sword will do a volume on the Claytons in the same vein as their class 21/29 book, which gives a lot of detail on problems in service.

 

No problem, it was all pretty fresh in my mind.  I would be interested in the same issues as yourself.  

 

Useful to know that the recent 21/29 book does cover this as I haven't got it, yet.  I think both the page count and price of it are substantially more than the Clayton one?  The author of the Clayton book has obviously gone to some trouble to find information, e.g trips to National Archive, Kew  and from Clayton's.  Presumably just different individual approaches by both publishers and authors.  Regardless, I thank them for the time expended and putting their research into print.

 

14 hours ago, Welly said:

Only a very brief mention in the text and no illustration of it.

I don't remember any mentions!

[slilley]

The specification for the "Standard Type 1" which became the Claytons was agreed the same day as the one for Type 4s which became the Class 47s. Agreed by the BTCs Technical Committee on 15th Jan 1960. I have a copy of the memo written by the CME JF Harrison and the CEE SB Warder on both specifications.

[Dubaimike]

10 hours ago, 26power said:

 

No problem, it was all pretty fresh in my mind.  I would be interested in the same issues as yourself.  

 

Useful to know that the recent 21/29 book does cover this as I haven't got it, yet.  I think both the page count and price of it are substantially more than the Clayton one?  The author of the Clayton book has obviously gone to some trouble to find information, e.g trips to National Archive, Kew  and from Clayton's.  Presumably just different individual approaches by both publishers and authors.  Regardless, I thank them for the time expended and putting their research into print.

 

I don't remember any mentions!

Yes the 21/29 book is about 290 pages with a RRP of GBP40, although available for significantly less even from the publishers. Well worth it in my view.

 

[stovepipe]

I have the NBL 21/29 book, and while I think it is pretty comprehensive, the  information could have been condensed to keep the page count and  cost down. Do we need for instance every single observation of every loco, and a lot of the detail differences could have been dealt with together in table form rather than seperately as text.

[46444]

Received a copy of this today and have had a quick flick through. 

 

What a superb book with plenty of modelling inspiration.

 

Looking forwards to a good read and certainly recommended for those interested in these Type 1's.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark