Red Damsel - A Super Detailed Slater's Quarry Hunslet in 16mm Scale

[Quarryscapes]

I've found this place very good for scrrews etc, worth asking him for a list: http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/40143-ItemsMailOrderLtd

 

I've also recently bought some 14BA screws with hexagonal heads off ebay.....

 

The 'large' 14BAs came from EKP Supplies https://www.ekpsupplies.com/index.php and the small headed ones from Eileen's. I've been totally unable to find any hexagon headed 16BAs anywhere though, so for my buffer beams I'm resorting to filed down nuts over cheeseheads from the inside. 

 

Whilst watching a terrible film last night, I cobbled up the rear cab sheet which the camera has decided not to focus on! 

 

 

More work to be done tidying it up and final fitting but it's a start. Going to crack on with some more valve gear shortly

[sidmouth]

The introduction

 

Ever since I got into railways I've always wanted a Quarry Hunslet. In particular I always wanted a cabless 009 one that wasn't a caricature, but sadly such a thing still does not exist. I looked at 7mm ones briefly, had an Agenoria one sat in a drawer for a while a long time ago before selling it on unmade - there was a lot of fiddliness in brass. Then I saw a photo by chance of the Slater's 16mm offering - and just wow! What a beautiful model it makes, truly the best representation of an Alice Class loco there has ever been. I had to have one! 

 

But by now you know me, I can't just build something as is, oh no, I need to fiddle! So rather than building Rough Pup as depicted, I decided I would build Red Damsel, and plonk it on a small (large compared to what I'm used to!) diorama of Lernion shed. 

 

Now at this point I realised I don't have an awful many photos of Red Damsel, so if anybody has any they could share, please do! 

 

The main detail difference is RD has an injector mounted on the tankside as per the Penrhyn equivalents, and the dumb buffers had extensions on the bottom.

 

Construction wise, obviously I need to incorporate the above differences, so the cast buffers will go in favour of some new ones which will likely be wood. All punched rivets will be replaced by real rivets or bolt heads as applicable. I plan on adding DCC too, so will need to accommodate the wiring for that, probably hidden in the bunker to avoid having to spoil the splitting arrangements. 

 

I plan to do the bulk of work on my 2 weeks off work at the end of February, but I'm just so excited at finally having a quality Hunslet I'll be making a start on cleaning up castings etc today! 

Just picking up this thread so apologies a, for lateness and b if I duplicate anything that has been said

 

Have you got the book on Quarry Hunslets by Chris Thomas . Lots of information, I can't remember about drawings but each locomotives is featured 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Quarry-Hunslets-North-Wales-Survivors/0853615756 Amazon link here , other booksellers are available

 

there is also the book on Dinorwic . I will post the title and author later , same publisher and very good

 

It is also fifty years since the last steam workings at Dinorwic in 2017

[Quarryscapes]

Just picking up this thread so apologies a, for lateness and b if I duplicate anything that has been said

 

Have you got the book on Quarry Hunslets by Chris Thomas . Lots of information, I can't remember about drawings but each locomotives is featured 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Quarry-Hunslets-North-Wales-Survivors/0853615756 Amazon link here , other booksellers are available

 

there is also the book on Dinorwic . I will post the title and author later , same publisher and very good

 

It is also fifty years since the last steam workings at Dinorwic in 2017

 

Yes I have a signed Copy, I was at the launch of the book at Gilfach Ddu and had a very pleasant chat with Cliff. It's a good book, but could use some more detail on Quarry life rather than preservation, although admittedly that is not what he set out to do with the book so can't really complain. 

 

 

Now then, I have spent a lot of hours over the past few nights and don't actually have a lot to show for it, lots of time consuming jobs! I finished the valve gear (as much as is possible before fitting in the chassis anyway) and discovered I'd made a mistake - the fork which attaches to the valve spindle should have been folded over back on itself. Oops! So that had to be corrected which took a while as I'd soldered it all up solid. 

 

Then there has been lots of 16 and 14BA nuts getting devoured by the carpet monster, but eventually that left me with the front buffer beam done, and the RHS motion bracket bolted on to the frame, not that it needs to be separate any longer, but since I'd drilled the holes, I though I'd use them! 

 

 

Here we see the 16BA nuts om the front buffer beam in progress. Once all rivets were in, I added the valances with 138 degree solder paste I got from ebay, lovely stuff - far nicer than the Carrs 179 stuff I'm building all the sub assemblies with. 

 

 

I also finally added the rivets to the rear buffer beam at the top, although there are more to add elsewhere on it when i feel like facing more 16ba nuts!

 

 

Reassembled dry again to make sure it all still works!

 

 

 

[MarshLane]

Really enjoying reading your progress with this. More a main line modeller, but always had a fascination with Dinorwic and Penrhyn, and subsequently the Quarry Hunslets. I'm almost tempted to buy one of these for a display, but that big sheet of etched brass is scaring the wotsit out of me!

 

How have you dealt with brass bending? I'm assuming there will be some soldering to be done/

 

Rich

[Quarryscapes]

Really enjoying reading your progress with this. More a main line modeller, but always had a fascination with Dinorwic and Penrhyn, and subsequently the Quarry Hunslets. I'm almost tempted to buy one of these for a display, but that big sheet of etched brass is scaring the wotsit out of me!

 

How have you dealt with brass bending? I'm assuming there will be some soldering to be done/

 

Rich

 

The etched bits are easy, just requiring a decent amount of heat due to their size and mass. i'm using a 75W iron and it's a bit small. Most bends are 180 degree to double up the thickness of things like the frames, rear buffer beam etc. The hardest part would be getting the curve in the cab side sheets and even that I did by hand with nothing more advanced than the handle of a needle file inside the bend. The tabs/slots do all need some fettling though, as with most kits really. 

[PGH]

Since starting to read this thread I've been looking into the history of the prototype loco.  Over time I tend to collect various odd bits and pieces of information and its interesting to put these together and try to get as much as possible of the full story.  I'm not sure how much interest there is here for this kind of information and it doesn't really help with the build, but it can always be deleted if considered inappropriate.  Some of the information is from published sources but most is unpublished.

 

First regarding livery - I have an extract from Hunslet paint records that covers a period from about 1890 to 1908, which unfortunately doesn't include Works No.493.  However the next two locos supplied to Dinorwic - 541 and 542 (later ROUGH PUP and CLOISTER) - were painted olive green lined with a black stripe edged with lemon yellow and a fine distant line of vermilion, so perhaps 493 was painted similarly.

 

By the next deliveries the livery had been changed to Midland Red - 631  VELINHELI (the 4ft gauge loco) and all locos from 638 (later JERRY M) to 849 (later WILD ASTER).  This was variously described as "painted crimson lake like the Midland Co. express locos", "painted throughout like Midland express locos, crimson lake with black stripe and yellow lines" or "painted Midland colour lined the usual way with black style".  In all cases, olive green or red, the buffer beams were vermilion.

 

493 was despatched by Hunslet in November 1889 (per a Hunslet works list, although one published source gives 28/10/1889) with the cast nameplates ENID and received at Llanberis railway station on 15/11/1889.  It was taken up to Ponc Moses on 8/2/1890.  Ponc is Welsh for bank or gallery and Ponc Moses is the fifth level up, part way up the C2 incline, and partly quarried away in later years.  Apparently it didn't start work at Ponc Moses until 10/6/1890, maybe the track wasn't suitable and required relaying - you could always tell where the steam locos worked from the heavier rail.  At that time it was the only loco on that level.

 

It worked on Ponc Moses until 1904, although a published source lists it on California level c1895/6.  In 1900 it was returned to Hunslet for repairs.  By 1905 repairs were again required and it stopped working on 5/1/1905 being replaced on Ponc Moses by VELINHELI.  The repairs were probably carried out at the quarry and included 4 new tyres from Hunslet.  After repair it was restored to working order by 10/2/1906 and went to the level named Australia.  The Australia level was the 15th level up at the head of the C5 incline, and where ALICE was left derelict after closure of the quarry.  HE 493 was still there in 1907/08 and it was apparently also recorded there in 1912/14, but there is then a gap in information on its location until 1932.

 

The practice of naming the locos after racehorses is well known.  Red Damsel the racehorse was only active in early 1914 and only won one race, so maybe HE 493 was renamed in that year or possibly earlier when the horse was first acquired.  In any case the practice of naming after racehorses ceased in 1914.

 

 

tbc ?

[Quarryscapes]

Since starting to read this thread I've been looking into the history of the prototype loco.  Over time I tend to collect various odd bits and pieces of information and its interesting to put these together and try to get as much as possible of the full story.  I'm not sure how much interest there is here for this kind of information and it doesn't really help with the build, but it can always be deleted if considered inappropriate.  Some of the information is from published sources but most is unpublished.

 

First regarding livery - I have an extract from Hunslet paint records that covers a period from about 1890 to 1908, which unfortunately doesn't include Works No.493.  However the next two locos supplied to Dinorwic - 541 and 542 (later ROUGH PUP and CLOISTER) - were painted olive green lined with a black stripe edged with lemon yellow and a fine distant line of vermilion, so perhaps 493 was painted similarly.

 

By the next deliveries the livery had been changed to Midland Red - 631  VELINHELI (the 4ft gauge loco) and all locos from 638 (later JERRY M) to 849 (later WILD ASTER).  This was variously described as "painted crimson lake like the Midland Co. express locos", "painted throughout like Midland express locos, crimson lake with black stripe and yellow lines" or "painted Midland colour lined the usual way with black style".  In all cases, olive green or red, the buffer beams were vermilion.

 

493 was despatched by Hunslet in November 1889 (per a Hunslet works list, although one published source gives 28/10/1889) with the cast nameplates ENID and received at Llanberis railway station on 15/11/1889.  It was taken up to Ponc Moses on 8/2/1890.  Ponc is Welsh for bank or gallery and Ponc Moses is the fifth level up, part way up the C2 incline, and partly quarried away in later years.  Apparently it didn't start work at Ponc Moses until 10/6/1890, maybe the track wasn't suitable and required relaying - you could always tell where the steam locos worked from the heavier rail.  At that time it was the only loco on that level.

 

It worked on Ponc Moses until 1904, although a published source lists it on California level c1895/6.  In 1900 it was returned to Hunslet for repairs.  By 1905 repairs were again required and it stopped working on 5/1/1905 being replaced on Ponc Moses by VELINHELI.  The repairs were probably carried out at the quarry and included 4 new tyres from Hunslet.  After repair it was restored to working order by 10/2/1906 and went to the level named Australia.  The Australia level was the 15th level up at the head of the C5 incline, and where ALICE was left derelict after closure of the quarry.  HE 493 was still there in 1907/08 and it was apparently also recorded there in 1912/14, but there is then a gap in information on its location until 1932.

 

The practice of naming the locos after racehorses is well known.  Red Damsel the racehorse was only active in early 1914 and only won one race, so maybe HE 493 was renamed in that year or possibly earlier when the horse was first acquired.  In any case the practice of naming after racehorses ceased in 1914.

 

 

tbc ?

 

Excellent stuff, there, I'm always interested in the histories of Quarry locos so feel free to add any more you find, particularly if you find anything on it's end days - I note that there is some detail differences between 1951 and 56, the latter being the condition I'm modelling, indicating that perhaps the tank was taken off, although it was not changed. 

[Quarryscapes]

Now to Progress! Shapeways have informed me that my injectors and associated bits are about to be dispatched, so that's good.

 

On the loco itself I've started adding the extra angle I mentioned previously. I have also tried it on its wheels and with valve gear temporarily fitted. 

 

Excuse the B&W, Camera was left that way from yesterday's excursion to Rhosydd Quarry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PGH]

The following information was taken from a ledger examined in the office of the engineer at the Gilfach Ddu Workshops in 1967.  This document seemed to have been started about 1935 as any entries dated earlier were brief and written in the same hand as though they had been copied from an earlier document.  It gave half a dozen pages to each loco and in the 1930s went in to some considerable detail of work carried out.  However in later years the entries became more brief and in some cases rather vague.  Time allowed only the more interesting facts to be recorded.     

 

For RED DAMSEL the following was extracted:

 

1/1923                 New boiler

3/1932                 New boiler No.10.  Sent to New York

20/4/1942            Withdrawn from service

16/2/1946            Put to work (No location given but another source says worked at Dyffryn late 1947)

23/4/1949            to Yard

25/4/1950            Sent to Lernion to replace MICHAEL    

1/11/1951            Taken out of service due to rockfall

4/6/1952              Restarted

2/7/1953              Boiler condemned, loco taken out of service

7/1953                 Boiler No.10 to works.  Boiler No.19 fitted at Lernion

11/7/1953            Put into service

24/6/1954            Boiler No.10 to Dry Dock (Port Dinorwic)

29/10/1955          Boiler faulty (presumably No.19), loco dismantled, boiler sent to yard

8/11/1955            Loco reassembled at Lernion

10/11/1955          into service

24/9/1957            Taken out of service  (Replaced at Lernion by HOLY WAR)

18/11/1957          Loco to Yard for dismantling

 

 

 

The photo shows known locations where RED DAMSEL worked:

 

1          Ponc Moses               1890 - 1904

2          Australia                     1906 -    ?   

3          New York                    1932 -   ?    

 4          Dyffryn                          ?     -   ?     

5          Lernion                       1950 - 1957

 

Lernion was the highest level worked by steam locomotive, one quote gives an altitude of 1,860 feet above sea level - the highest loco shed in the British Isles.

 

 

[MarshLane]

Fascinating background info Philip.

 

Rich

[Quarryscapes]

The following information was taken from a ledger examined in the office of the engineer at the Gilfach Ddu Workshops in 1967.  This document seemed to have been started about 1935 as any entries dated earlier were brief and written in the same hand as though they had been copied from an earlier document.  It gave half a dozen pages to each loco and in the 1930s went in to some considerable detail of work carried out.  However in later years the entries became more brief and in some cases rather vague.  Time allowed only the more interesting facts to be recorded.     

 

For RED DAMSEL the following was extracted:

 

1/1923                 New boiler

3/1932                 New boiler No.10.  Sent to New York

20/4/1942            Withdrawn from service

16/2/1946            Put to work (No location given but another source says worked at Dyffryn late 1947)

23/4/1949            to Yard

25/4/1950            Sent to Lernion to replace MICHAEL    

1/11/1951            Taken out of service due to rockfall

4/6/1952              Restarted

2/7/1953              Boiler condemned, loco taken out of service

7/1953                 Boiler No.10 to works.  Boiler No.19 fitted at Lernion

11/7/1953            Put into service

24/6/1954            Boiler No.10 to Dry Dock (Port Dinorwic)

29/10/1955          Boiler faulty (presumably No.19), loco dismantled, boiler sent to yard

8/11/1955            Loco reassembled at Lernion

10/11/1955          into service

24/9/1957            Taken out of service  (Replaced at Lernion by HOLY WAR)

18/11/1957          Loco to Yard for dismantling

 

 

QH007BB.jpg

 

The photo shows known locations where RED DAMSEL worked:

 

1          Ponc Moses               1890 - 1904

2          Australia                     1906 -    ?   

3          New York                    1932 -   ?    

 4          Dyffryn                          ?     -   ?     

5          Lernion                       1950 - 1957

 

Lernion was the highest level worked by steam locomotive, one quote gives an altitude of 1,860 feet above sea level - the highest loco shed in the British Isles.

 

Excellent stuff, looks like there were 2 side feed boilers then, unless No.10 was fitted back again in 1955. Does either boiler show up for Velinheli I wonder?

 

Also that pic is brilliant!

Edited February 9, 2017 by Quarryscapes

[bigbadbadge]

What a lovely looking loco and what amazing work.  This looks great.  Keep up the good work

All the best
Chris

[JeffP]

Where's the icon for "Wow!" at that photo of the quarry.

 

Were all the lines interconnected?

[PGH]

Excellent stuff, looks like there were 2 side feed boilers then, unless No.10 was fitted back again in 1955. Does either boiler show up for Velinheli I wonder?

 

Unfortunately the note for 8/11/1955 doesn't say which boiler was replaced.  One might assume that the problem would have been fairly major to involve removing the boiler and the time between "loco dismantled" and "into service" seems quite short, maybe Boiler No.10 had been repaired and returned from Port Dinorwic, but that's just pure speculation.  There was no other mention of Boiler No.10 and the only other use listed of Boiler No.19 was fitted to CLOISTER from 8/1933 to 2/1945.  Major boiler repair work and construction of new boilers was done down at Port Dinorwic but I believe that all records there were destroyed in 1969.

 

To complete the story of RED DAMSEL, in March 1965 the chassis was stored in Gilfach Ddu Works Yard with other parts including 4 saddle tanks, cab and boiler - the latter with backhead injectors so presumably off another loco.

 

 

 

It was sold by auction on 13/12/1969 in a dismantled state for the sum of £1550.  Purchased by Alan Lowry Porter for the proposed Llanberis Lake Railway it was rebuilt over the winter of 1971/2 and fitted with the cab originally supplied on IRISH MAIL.

 

 

 

HE 493 now named ELIDIR as running today (2014 photo) on the Llanberis Lake Railway.  Driver Hefin Owen takes water at Gilfach Ddu.

[PGH]

Were all the lines interconnected?

 

Most of the lines were interconnected.  The Quarry had two main sections, the north "Garret" side (furthest from the camera in the photo) was served by the "A" series of inclines to the left, the bottom of which terminated at Gilfach Ddu - location of the workshops and terminus of the Padarn Railway and off the photo to the left.  Between these inclines and the quarry levels there was another shorter series of inclines - the "B" inclines, of which some remained in use but others had been partly quarried away.  The south "Braich" side of the quarry is nearer the camera and you can probably just make out from the photo the ridge of rock separating the two.  This carried a rather long flight of steps.  The Braich side was served by the "C" series inclines to the right.  Some of the level lines originally ran through between the A and C inclines, but most of these were interrupted by quarrying or falls of rock. 

 

At the very top of the quarry there were three long disused levels not connected to the rest of the system, and on the highest I found the remains of a Blondin (Aerial ropeway) terminal for lowering wagons to a lower level.  There were also several sincs (pits) in the quarry served by Blondins which would have had short lengths of unconnected track in the bottom.

 

For further reading, in addition to the Quarry Hunslets book mentioned previously there is also:

"Narrow Gauge Railways in North Caernarvonshire - Volume 3"  by J.I.C.Boyd published by Oakwood Press 1986

 

"The Padarn & Penrhyn Railways" by Susan Turner published by David & Charles 1975

 

"Slates to Velinheli" by D.C.Carrington and T.F.Rushworth originally published by the Maid Marian Locomotive Fund and later reprinted with amendments by the Bala Lake Railway Society 1993

 

"Delving in Dinorwic" by D.C.Carrington published by Gwasg Carreg Gwalch, Llanrwst 1994

 

For a general history of the quarry: 

"DINORWIC - The Llanberis Slate Quarry  1780 - 1969" by Reg Chambers Jones published by Bridge Books, Wrexham 2006

 

There was a series of articles on the Hunslet locos in "Narrow Lines" the magazine of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association entitled "Dinorwic Mysteries", beginning with Part 1 in Issue 95 of October & November 1995 and extending over three other issues - 96, 98 and 99.

 

I first visited the quarry about 1960 and its hard to imagine in these days of health and safety that two schoolboys could turn up unarranged at the main gate, be directed to the managers office to seek permission, and then be allowed to wander unaccompanied wherever we liked around the quarry.  What we probably didn't realise at the time was that we were witnessing the end of an era.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I first visited the quarry about 1960 and its hard to imagine in these days of health and safety that two schoolboys could turn up unarranged at the main gate, be directed to the managers office to seek permission, and then be allowed to wander unaccompanied wherever we liked around the quarry."

 

I did similar a few years later.  I took a few precious B&W photos on a 120 camera ... I might have taken a few more if digital cameras were available (and I'd had one!).

 

 

 

"What we probably didn't realise at the time was that we were witnessing the end of an era."

 

Oh, I think we did, which is why I still feel so fortunate to have seen the quarry whilst it was still extracting slate.

 

David

[Quarryscapes]

I'm in the process of putting the rods together, so far so good, a slight tight spot which is to be expected as the crankpins are currently a tight fit all round - but the wheels turn which is the main thing!

 

I've also taken the step of cutting the top off the middle spacer as per the prototype, which did not ever reach up to the boiler. 

 

 

[PGH]

This is the chassis of IRISH MAIL - Is this any help ? 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by PGH

[Quarryscapes]

Very useful,cheers!

[JeffP]

This thread is fascinating. I'm also following the rebuilding of a 2' gauge Peckett "Jurassic" from Southam on Facebook. It was bought by the Lincolnshire Coast Light Railway at Humberstone south of Cleethorpes in the early 60's, and has now moved to the water park at Skegness. It's boiler has just been refurbished at the North Norfolk Railway and it should be in steam again this summer! I worked on the old LCLR, including this loco, in the summer of 1968 after my dad took me out of school after my "O" levels to avoid the trouble I was about to cause......

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Jurassic&biw=1224&bih=791&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwo8DywYrSAhVqAcAKHXS3DjYQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=Jurassic+loco

[Quarryscapes]

Glad you posted the shot of the chassis, I'll needto redo the rear buffer beam now as I have put the wrong bolt pattern in (based on Holy War as it was the clearest rear view I had)

[Quarryscapes]

Look what's arrived....

 

 

And I've just ordered some M0.6 nuts and bolts from Prime Miniatures, as well as some more stuff from Slaters: a Rubbish Wagon and a host of extra couplings, as several were usually kept on the loco, hung on the bunker etc. 

 

[Quarryscapes]

And no time has been wasted in finishing off the steam turret. Red Damsel is now fixed as the identity, and the positions of these valves date it to 1956. 

 

 

 

 

I'd Already drilled the holes in the steam turret itself, all that remained was to modify the pressure gauge fittings by cutting off the T piece with blower valve attached as it was facing the wrong way and to open out the hole in the base of the pressure gauge for its feed pipe, which has been routed as per a photo provided by PGH. The new valves were soldered on - not an easy task as the steam turret casting saps up all the heat so it takes ages and you have no option but to find some way of clamping it all where it should be. 

 

Next I'll mark out and drill the saddle tank for the injectors, brackets and all the various blanking plugs and repair plugs. 

[JeffP]

What's the sort of "smiley face" on the gauge?

[Quarryscapes]

It's just an imperfection in the casting (specifically a 'knit line'). I'll print a face for it when the time comes rather than try and paint a dial on there.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Quarryscapes