Quarryscapes Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 No going back now... 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 Really enjoying watching your build - I've never been into 16mm before, but having seen this, this kit has definitely gone on my must do list! Only trouble is Im going to need a small 16mm layout to run it! Especially as I've discovered that Quarry Hunslet Zimo sound chips are available! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Really enjoying watching your build - I've never been into 16mm before, but having seen this, this kit has definitely gone on my must do list! Only trouble is Im going to need a small 16mm layout to run it! Especially as I've discovered that Quarry Hunslet Zimo sound chips are available! Rich Have you got a link, I'd like to see that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Once again assembled dry! First tank plugs gone in.There is another this side but I need the name plates on first to get the positioning right. Really starting to come together now, not much more to be done. I'd better order some etching primer, it won't be long before it's needed. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 Have you got a link, I'd like to see that! Hi, I don't have a link but Paul Chetter (who is recognised as one of the best for DCC sound projects) tells me he has done recordings of most FR locos and two different Quarry Hunslets. If you drop him a line, he's on here as Pauliebanger - or drop me a PM and I'll pass on his email address, I'm sure he can tell you more! No connection other than a very satisfied customer of his other sound projects which are superb and work far more realistically than many others I've used! Rich 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I've just added the vertical run of rivets on the coal bunker, and would now like to drill the holes for the LHS injector pipework. PGH - is your original photo any clearer on how the pipe went through the cabsheet? I can't quite make it out in the one you sent me. The pipe either swan necks down and goes under the tank and behind the cab sheet, or there is a hole into the bunker. I'm leaning towards the former as more likely as it would be less effort on the part of Gilfach Ddu to implement, and would not be so damage prone as the latter. I'm also revising my original plumbing layout - I think the middle valve on the steam turret goes to the blower, and the left and right going to the same side injectors, as the pipework appears slightly chunkier for the injectors. I've also been thinking about pickups and electrics. I'm now thinking of attaching a pcb strip to the bottom of the middle spacer, with pickups attached to it. From the strip a pair of fine wires will lead straight up into the boiler, where the decoder will be hidden. I'll need to then drill a feed hole through the firebox to get the juice to the motor. Edited February 15, 2017 by Quarryscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGH Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I've just added the vertical run of rivets on the coal bunker, and would now like to drill the holes for the LHS injector pipework. PGH - is your original photo any clearer on how the pipe went through the cabsheet? I can't quite make it out in the one you sent me. The pipe either swan necks down and goes under the tank and behind the cab sheet, or there is a hole into the bunker. I'm leaning towards the former as more likely as it would be less effort on the part of Gilfach Ddu to implement, and would not be so damage prone as the latter. The photo below is about the best I could do from the original print. It appears that the injector steam feed pipe goes through the front of the bunker, also the blower pipe curves out and seems to go through just below. On other locos the water feed and blower pipes do stay under the tank and go behind the bunker sheet - as on VELINHELI and HOLY WAR, but as the Firebox outer wrapper is nearly as wide as the tank they must have a 'S' bend to get round the firebox. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2017 Have you given any thought to how your going to line the model after painting? You mentioned about putting the decoder in the boiler/saddle - I presume thats all hollow underneath? Making mental notes for when I acquire one! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 The photo below is about the best I could do from the original print. RD Detail.jpg It appears that the injector steam feed pipe goes through the front of the bunker, also the blower pipe curves out and seems to go through just below. On other locos the water feed and blower pipes do stay under the tank and go behind the bunker sheet - as on VELINHELI and HOLY WAR, but as the Firebox outer wrapper is nearly as wide as the tank they must have a 'S' bend to get round the firebox. HE pipework © PGH.jpg I think I'm going to have to rework the bunker a bit. At the moment it goes right to the edge of the cab sheet. I don't have a very good collection of shots looking down at the footplate of a hunslet, the ones I do the crucial bits are obscured! At any rate I'm going to have to bring it inward a bit, shouldn't be a problem, I mentioned before that the bunker side was the wrong size to fit as it is (which is dictated by the slots in the footplate). It appears it's the slots that are in the wrong place rather than the bunker side being wrong (although we'll see once I've un-soldered it if it needs shortening) . Have you given any thought to how your going to line the model after painting? You mentioned about putting the decoder in the boiler/saddle - I presume thats all hollow underneath? Making mental notes for when I acquire one! Rich No lining necessary - but recreating that level of worn paint in PGH's pic above is going to be fun. You may already have noticed that I've scraped up the left hand cabsheet in readiness. The boiler is a turned brass tube, the smokebox, firebox and tank are all solid resin castings, the firebox and smokebox having a boss on them that acts as a plug for the boiler tube. I've further thought about the pickups - I'm now thinking a sheet of 0.2mm PCB cut and drilled to match the middle spacer would make for a very inconspicuous mounting point and would remove the need for wires going up into the boiler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Yep that was easy... Need to do a bit of filing below tank level to get the shape to match the profile as seen in PGHs pics. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Some teeny stuff arrived today... An assortment of shackles for the rear buffer beam - I'm going to do it properly and make the bracket up from 2 pieces of angle as per the real thing and use one of these shackles so I can actually use it to drag wagons on adjacent tracks. The nuts and bolts will be used to secure said brackets in place. They are M0.6! In full size they represent bolts with 19mm AF heads, which is a good approximation of 3/8" or 7/16" whitworth bolts. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Well what a carry on today! Thought I'd have a look and see what it was like under power. The motor is the most awkward thing on the planet to attach, lots of faffing to get the screws in so there's going to be some modification on the way in that department as I'm not going through that faff once the valve and brake gear are in. Anyway, it moved under its own power, but the main snag is that the drive coupling keeps coming uncoupled, leaving the motor spinning and the gearbox flapping in mid air. The only way to reattach is to take the motor back out again! Not sure what the cause is, might have something to do with the wheelsets climbing out of their horn guides as there are as yet no keep bars. The whole drive seems a bit wobbly as well, might have to stiffen up the mounting bracket somehow. Anyhow, with the wheelsets out, the motor is capable of running at an absolute crawl even on my crummy Bachmann trainset controller, so once the bugs are worked out of the chassis this should be one smooth and controllable little loco. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Well, there's progress anyway... Plenty of issues to resolve - the motor flapping about, the driven axle flapping about, the tight spots with rods on and the driven crankpin bushes are too long. You can't see the flapping about in the video sadly, but the spacer to which the motor is attached flexes by a good 0.5mm and bobs back and forth. Meanwhile the wiring tunnel progresses: Edited February 16, 2017 by Quarryscapes 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Last night I took the rods off and added their final overlays, and opened up the holes slightly. I've emailed Slaters about the crankpin length because it just isn't right as it is, I'll make some new crankpins if necessary. Had it running again today. Looks like the wobbliness is the result of the drive coupling, looks like i'll have to email Slaters about that and get it replaced as it's not concentric, and the gearbox is VERY sensitive to misalignment. WIth the motor not screwed in but held by hand the chassis will run very slowly, with just a slight tight spot in the rods still evident but the majority of the problems being in the coupling joint. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2017 Hiya, Very impressed with the high quality of your chassis construction, really does look superb. I cannot see much soldering work on the chassis though, is it just very good soldering or is most of it bolted together? I've looked back on the thread, but cannot quite make my mind up! Whose gearbox/motor do Slaters use for this? As you say, its shame about the little niggles, but I'm sure you'll sort them out. Can't wait to see it finished. Rich 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks RIch. It's neither - the front of the frames is tabbed into the front buffer beam which is part of the footplate. The rear top is tabbed into the footplate with the spacers trapped between by tabs in the very rear of the frames into the rear buffer beam which keeps it spaced correctly. There is one 12BA bolt at the rear currently keeping the footplate attached to the frames. Everything else is just sat in place. I am awaiting a delivery of nuts that need soldering to the frames, once they're in I'll solder up the frames and spacers into a unit, only when that's done will I do the final easing of the crankpin holes in the rods. Motor is a Faulhaber 2619SR with 8:1 gearhead (the instructions refer to a 22:1 unit so I will enquire about this along with the wobbly connector, I'd prefer 22:1 or really the 33:1 unit that's also available). I'm not sure what the gearbox on the axle is but it is not a worm drive. There are niggles with any kit, these have generally been pretty minor although I can't quite tell if I also have an eccentric wheel, it's difficult to tell with everything else that's moving about! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2017 Bit of history. When released the kit had a different gearhead motor supplied, probably the one mentioned in the instructions. It either wouldn't pull the skin of rice pudding or was way too slow, I can't remember which now, and was exchanged by Slater's for the one now included in the kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Bit of history. When released the kit had a different gearhead motor supplied, probably the one mentioned in the instructions. It either wouldn't pull the skin of rice pudding or was way too slow, I can't remember which now, and was exchanged by Slater's for the one now included in the kit. Definitely not the one they originally supplied, that's a very different motor (it's in the photos in the instructions still). There is no external difference between any of the gearheads in the Faulhaber 2619SR line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks Paul, Whats your view on the soldering aspect - is it going to be quite an easy job, or somewhat awkward? Im getting to a stage of seriously considering going and getting a kit myself, but I've not done loco kits before hence the queries - the rest of this looks really nice tho - although I'm not sure whether to go Quarry Hunslet to start with or a George England! Before I've finished your thread will have talked me into going 16mm! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Soldering requires a BIG iron due to the sheer volume of metal you're trying to heat. It's a shame it isn't in Nickel Silver rather than brass as that would have helped. The instructions claim you can epoxy it together, and I'm sure you could but I wouldn't like to myself. I probably will glue the slidebars and cylinder end covers in place though, they are already restrained as they are so don't need a particularly strong joint forming. You will need to be able to drill though, even without my extra holes there's a lot of drilling work, some of it very fiddly and precise in nature. Here's the test rig - motor is not actually attached to the loco, it's just hovering there. You can see how low on the speed scale it is, it can go a little bit slower but not much, it's also very low on grunt at this speed, so a higher gear ratio would be most preferable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2017 Soldering requires a BIG iron due to the sheer volume of metal you're trying to heat. It's a shame it isn't in Nickel Silver rather than brass as that would have helped. The instructions claim you can epoxy it together, and I'm sure you could but I wouldn't like to myself. I probably will glue the slidebars and cylinder end covers in place though, they are already restrained as they are so don't need a particularly strong joint forming. You will need to be able to drill though, even without my extra holes there's a lot of drilling work, some of it very fiddly and precise in nature. Here's the test rig - motor is not actually attached to the loco, it's just hovering there. You can see how low on the speed scale it is, it can go a little bit slower but not much, it's also very low on grunt at this speed, so a higher gear ratio would be most preferable. Thanks for that. What size iron do you have if you don't mind me asking? Yes, I think I'd agree, a lower gear ratio would be an improvement. Almost wondering about replacing the motor and gearbox with something better, although I guess the problem is finding something small enough to fit in the space. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Thanks for that. What size iron do you have if you don't mind me asking? Yes, I think I'd agree, a lower gear ratio would be an improvement. Almost wondering about replacing the motor and gearbox with something better, although I guess the problem is finding something small enough to fit in the space. Rich I have a 75W CSI iron currently with a 4mm tip, a nice iron but a bit under powered for this kit, some of the joints have taken minutes to form even using 138 degree solder. (Boiler clacks, steam turret). I'd buy a Gas torch one but don't trust myself with a naked flame at the workbench! You won't find better than a Faulhaber motor, and the rear axle is supplied assembled with the gearbox already on so changing it isn't really an option. From the Catalogue it looks like it's a 3:1 crossed gearbox, giving mine an overall reduction of a mere 24:1, as opposed to the 66:1 it would have with the 22:1 motor. I might ask them nicely if they will fit a drive connector if I supply a 33:1 motor myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2017 I have a 75W CSI iron currently with a 4mm tip, a nice iron but a bit under powered for this kit, some of the joints have taken minutes to form even using 138 degree solder. (Boiler clacks, steam turret). I'd buy a Gas torch one but don't trust myself with a naked flame at the workbench! You won't find better than a Faulhaber motor, and the rear axle is supplied assembled with the gearbox already on so changing it isn't really an option. From the Catalogue it looks like it's a 3:1 crossed gearbox, giving mine an overall reduction of a mere 24:1, as opposed to the 66:1 it would have with the 22:1 motor. I might ask them nicely if they will fit a drive connector if I supply a 33:1 motor myself. Thanks for that. I'll give that one some thought. Have to say, I'm probably the same where a gas torch comes into play! Look forward to watching the rest of the build, and hope you'll post what you decide to do with the gearbox - I'll use that as reference! What 33:1 motor would you use? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 It would be the same Faulhaber 2619, just in 33:1 configurtation. (https://fmcc.faulhaber.com/resources/img/EN_2619_SR_DFF.PDF) I've been working on the design of the electrics today: A strip of veroboard with 8 pin DCC connector to which will be attached a Zimo MX634R. The baord will also house 2 JST-XH 2 pin connectors which will connect the pickups and the motor, allowing the whole lot to be removable without desoldering anything. The rest of the board houses 6 x 25V 1000μF stay alive capacitors which will be attached to the Zimo with a further JST XH connector but on flying leads. A parcel of stuff from EIleens arrived earlier, so I should be able to get on with finishing up the frames tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2017 It would be the same Faulhaber 2619, just in 33:1 configurtation. (https://fmcc.faulhaber.com/resources/img/EN_2619_SR_DFF.PDF) I've been working on the design of the electrics today: DCC Socket PCB.png A strip of veroboard with 8 pin DCC connector to which will be attached a Zimo MX634R. The baord will also house 2 JST-XH 2 pin connectors which will connect the pickups and the motor, allowing the whole lot to be removable without desoldering anything. The rest of the board houses 6 x 25V 1000μF stay alive capacitors which will be attached to the Zimo with a further JST XH connector but on flying leads. A parcel of stuff from EIleens arrived earlier, so I should be able to get on with finishing up the frames tomorrow. Very impressed with the layout drawing! Did you decide against a sound option then ... or run-out of space! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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