Mousa Model 4 plank wagon

[twiggyforest2]

I  have recently received a Bill Bedford kit for a Great Northern 4 plank wagon. This is the first kit I have built in resin and thought I would give a blow by blow account.

This is what you get in the box

Brass chassis etch,  resin wagon body. resin fret containing axle boxes and other chassis components, wire and steel buffer heads and springs

 

I have decided to built the chassis first as Bill uses the csb method for compensation, as I am building in 00 I personally do not normally use compensation. Chassis partly bent up prior to soldering.

 

Bearing holders and springy wire

 

Chassis soldered up and 2 bearings attached

 

Enough for tonight, will post more another day

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

[garethashenden]

Interesting, I just started mine today as well.

[twiggyforest2]

All 4 bearing holders fitted and chassis placed in body to make sure everything fitted.

 

Body right way up. You will notice on the solebar there are 2 pairs of indentations, 1 under the centre of the drop down door which is for the bump stop to fit into, the second pair of indentations are to the right of the solebar for the brake lever support to fit in. On the opposite solebar there are 3 pairs of indentations the one pair on the left MUST be filled in as it is a mistake.

 

The body was slightly bowed so following Bills instructions (Yes Bill Bedford does instructions) I put it in a bowl of hot water, be careful as the resin go's pliable very quickly, remove from water and gently ease into correct shape.

 

Parts removed from fret, brake shoes and bar, bump stop, brake lever support and brake levers.

 

Wheel bearings fitted, right hand axle box, bump stop and brake lever fitted. Notice the  2 indentations on the left of the sole bar, there will be filled before painting. I found that the rear of the axle boxes had to have quite a lot of material removed to allow the bearings to move freely.

 

Hope to complete the body and chassis later today.

 

John

 

 

[Nimbus]

I think you have misunderstood the suspension. It's not a CSB design, which is best suited to locos, and can be recognised by a single chassis anchor point between adjacent axles. Bill's wagon suspension works with individual short wires long enough to span the fold-up anchor points either side of the axleguard. What you have will be very stiff, but it'll be an easy job to revert to individual spans. Perhaps you might like to take the opportunity to complete as is, try it out, then convert by snipping the middle spans out, to obtain a comparison of ride qualities.

 

I wonder if Bill intended waisted bearings to be used?

 

The Nim.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I think you have misunderstood the suspension. It's not a CSB design, which is best suited to locos, and can be recognised by a single chassis anchor point between adjacent axles. Bill's wagon suspension works with individual short wires long enough to span the fold-up anchor points either side of the axleguard. What you have will be very stiff, but it'll be an easy job to revert to individual spans. Perhaps you might like to take the opportunity to complete as is, try it out, then convert by snipping the middle spans out, to obtain a comparison of ride qualities.

 

I wonder if Bill intended waisted bearings to be used?

 

The Nim.

 

Agree about the spring wires.

 

I've built several BB Mousa LNWR wagons and found waisted pinpoint bearings best. I also found it necessary to match the bearings to the suspension, because they vary in depth according to manufacturer. With some they splay out the w-iron and the springing won't work well. It's worth doing that on the etched "chassis" before you fit it.

[garethashenden]

 

 

Body right way up. You will notice on the solebar there are 2 pairs of indentations, 1 under the centre of the drop down door which is for the bump stop to fit into, the second pair of indentations are to the right of the solebar for the brake lever support to fit in. On the opposite solebar there are 3 pairs of indentations the one pair on the left MUST be filled in as it is a mistake.

Your right that one of those pairs needs to be filled, but it is not a mistake. When built these had brake levers on either side but on one side the lever went up to the left as opposed to the normal up to the right orientation. At some point the Board of Trade decided this wasn't OK and that lever was replaced with one with a Morton clutch. This is why there are three brake levers in the kit. I'm not sure of the exact date of the change, but you will need to pick the arrangement that is right for your era.

 

I haven't quite gotten there yet with this kit, but here is the same thing on a Great Central wagon, also Mousa models.

[Compound2632]

I think you have misunderstood the suspension. It's not a CSB design, which is best suited to locos, and can be recognised by a single chassis anchor point between adjacent axles. Bill's wagon suspension works with individual short wires long enough to span the fold-up anchor points either side of the axleguard. What you have will be very stiff, but it'll be an easy job to revert to individual spans. Perhaps you might like to take the opportunity to complete as is, try it out, then convert by snipping the middle spans out, to obtain a comparison of ride qualities.

 

I wonder if Bill intended waisted bearings to be used?

 

The Nim.

 

I did what John has done and used a single length of spring wire on each side - it's less fiddly to set up that way. I'm not convinced the slight coupling between the two bearing suspension points makes much difference - but I'm working in OO. I agree best to use waisted bearings though I had a trauma first time round resolved by using MJT waisted bearings in later builds. It's a fiddle to set up the spring buffers with the W-iron unit in place - I've taken to setting these up first and hoping for the best when it comes to painting.

 

 

The body was slightly bowed so following Bills instructions (Yes Bill Bedford does instructions) I put it in a bowl of hot water, be careful as the resin go's pliable very quickly, remove from water and gently ease into correct shape.

 

 

I must search for that instruction as I'm needing to straighten out a very slightly twisted LNWR D1 body.

 

What adhesive are you using?

[Jol Wilkinson]

- but I'm working in OO.

 

What adhesive are you using?

What relevance is the gauge? Everything is the same - including the axles - except for the wheel B2B. The brakes may not line up perfectly but only by 1mm each side.

 

I don't know what glue Bill recommends but I used Medium and Thin viscosity Superglue from Hobby Holidays, but any decent brand should do. You'll need to add some ballast. I used self adhesive car wheel balance weights underneath (because I had them). If you are adding a load and you can hide the ballast inside the body.

[Compound2632]

What relevance is the gauge? Everything is the same - including the axles - except for the wheel B2B. The brakes may not line up perfectly but only by 1mm each side.

 

I don't know what glue Bill recommends but I used Medium and Thin viscosity Superglue from Hobby Holidays, but any decent brand should do. You'll need to add some ballast. I used self adhesive car wheel balance weights underneath (because I had them). If you are adding a load and you can hide the ballast inside the body.

 

One was always told that compensation or springing was necessary in EM and especially P4 because of the combination of finer wheel standards - esp. flange depth - and hand-built track. That may be an outdated view - am I right in thinking that the Alan Gibson wheels I'm using in OO are identical to their EM gauge ones? Also the likes of C&L have reputedly made it easier to build good even track in the finer scales. On the other hand, the wider flangeways at crossings make life harder for OO vehicles, I suppose.

 

I've been using one of the more viscous cyanoacrylates too - has worked for me.

[Jol Wilkinson]

OO and EM wheels from AG, Ultrascale and Markits have the tyre profile (so did Sharman). How that matches  RTR 00 wheels is anyone's guess. Narrower flangeway gaps do give the wheels a smoother ride at the crossing vee.

 

Springing, and too a lesser degree, compensation also give a "smoother ride" although not always noticeable. As I model to P4 track standards I use some sort of suspension system although some consider that you don't need to with short wheelbase vehicles. 

 

I also use the thicker viscosity cyanoacrylate but feel that it's better to use the thinnest that'll do the job. I found on a couple of occasions that the thick stuff set quickly causing the parts I was gluing to be too far apart by about .5mm. Not normally a problem but rather visible in this case.

[Miss Prism]

Ironically, RTP 00 track is far flatter than most handmade track, and the functional need for suspension is negligible. The significant benefit of sprung suspension is that the body weight is decoupled from the rigid rail, which gives a noticeably different ride quality in my opinion.

[Miss Prism]

I did what John has done and used a single length of spring wire on each side - it's less fiddly to set up that way. I'm not convinced the slight coupling between the two bearing suspension points makes much difference - but I'm working in OO.

 

I'll do some sums later.

 

Mass for mass, and wire for wire, the deflection of the 'single length beam' will be about 40% of the deflection of individual beams.

[twiggyforest2]

I'll do some sums later.

 

Mass for mass, and wire for wire, the deflection of the 'single length beam' will be about 40% of the deflection of individual beams.

 

Thanks to every one who has replied to my post.

Reading your post Miss Prism, if I were to cut the single length beam in the centre would that solve the problem or do I cause more hassle than it is worth. As I stated in my first post I am using on SMP 00 code 75 track and hand built points and on the wagon I have built I am not having any problems

 

John

[pete_mcfarlane]

Interesting that it's possible to bend the body by putting it in hot water. It's presumably possible to get it to bow outwards, as knackered wooden wagons tended to do towards the ends of their lives. 

[twiggyforest2]

Interesting that it's possible to bend the body by putting it in hot water. It's presumably possible to get it to bow outwards, as knackered wooden wagons tended to do towards the ends of their lives. 

 

Be careful, the resin seems to go  "floppy" very quickly even when the water is hot but you can still put your hands,

[Miss Prism]

Reading your post Miss Prism, if I were to cut the single length beam in the centre would that solve the problem

 

Yes.

[twiggyforest2]

Fettling to get the buffers to fit, I have used a fairly thick cyanoacrylate to give me time to adjust parts before they set. Be careful when fitting the buffers that you do not get glue on the shafts, did not do it this time but like most of us had done it before.

 

Axle box/springs fitted, used same wire supplied with the kit as the cross shaft(?) making sure the 2 brake mouldings are attached to the wire. On the brass etch there are 2 pieces with 2 half etched lines that need folding up and attaching to the chassis around the 2 pieces that are the actuating levers with the brake shoes on.This photo shows better what I was trying to say, maybe the brass piece could have come slightly more towards the middle.

 

 

Have given it a quick spray, will allow to dry 3 or 4 days then give it a identity, do not know what yet think I will ask GNRS members for help. Really enjoyed building this, kit was very good, all the parts fitted well just a pain getting rid of all the flash, but you are warned of this before starting.

[Compound2632]

Fettling to get the buffers to fit, I have used a fairly thick cyanoacrylate to give me time to adjust parts before they set. Be careful when fitting the buffers that you do not get glue on the shafts, did not do it this time but like most of us had done it before.20170108_123230.jpg

 

Axle box/springs fitted, used same wire supplied with the kit as the cross shaft(?) making sure the 2 brake mouldings are attached to the wire. On the brass etch there are 2 pieces with 2 half etched lines that need folding up and attaching to the chassis around the 2 pieces that are the actuating levers with the brake shoes on.

 

Cunning - you've glued the axlebox/spring units to the W-iron unit but not the solebars, so you can assemble the sprung buffers after painting without the W-iron unit in the way.

 

Did you know? American varsity basketball had been going for ten years before someone thought of cutting the bottom out of the baskets...

[Penlan]

Did you know? American varsity basketball had been going for ten years before someone thought of cutting the bottom out of the baskets...

So not all's bad with Portillo's Train Journeys, as some would have us believe.