Synch Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I've come to posting because I'm at my wits end trying to find information!One of my wants is to eventually model a 5 coach rake of the "Sheffield Pullman", which was made up of Pullmans used by the GER and shuffled around the LNER at different stages. My only problem is I don't know much about these specific coaches! Any info I have is from Steve Banks' "LNER Passenger Trains and Formations", any help is appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Not that I know anything about Sheffield or Pullmans but are you referring to a Sheffield Pullman in LNER times or the one introduced in BR days which replaced the Master Cutler? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 There was a detailed article some years ago in the GERS Journal and I'll sort out the reference for you. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synch Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Not that I know anything about Sheffield or Pullmans but are you referring to a Sheffield Pullman in LNER times or the one introduced in BR days which replaced the Master Cutler? Chris Yes I'm interested in the 1926 LNER train, apologies for confusion. There was a detailed article some years ago in the GERS Journal and I'll sort out the reference for you. Paul Many thanks when you can! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted January 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2017 Sheffield Pullman June 1924: one 8-wheel K-type and four 12-wheelers. 40 - 29 seat 3rd class brake parlour 45 - 36 seat 3rd class kitchen car Geraldine - K type 22 seat 1st class kitchen car (8-wheel) 56 - 35 seat third class kitchen car 41 - 29 seat 3rd class brake parlour Sheffield Pullman only ran from June 1924 to September 1925 and from April 1925 Geraldine was rarely included though one 1st class car was (I don't know which). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 John Watling prepared a detailed illustrated article for The Great Eastern Railway Society (GERS) Journal in 1991, which traced the history of Pullman Car services on GER and later. The article was spread over five issues of the Journal (Journals 65 to 69) with a follow-up piece in Journal 73. Because of copyright reasons, Journals are only available to GERS members, but all issues are currently available to members. (www.gersociety.org.uk) In Part 3 of the article John deals with the curtailed Pullman Services on the GE Section and release of Pullman cars for the Sheffield services which commenced on 2nd June 1924. Six of the GE Pullmans were converted for use on this service: Ansonia, Arcadia, No. 46, No 57, No.40 and No.41 and the article includes a description, photos and plans of the conversion work.(see also The Locomotive Magazine July 1924). Apparently the service was poorly patronised and abandoned; the cars were then used on the West Riding Pullman which commenced in 1925. John also discusses the GE Pullman Cars which went to the LMSR. Part 4 deals with remaining Pullman services on the GE. Part 5 deals with Newmarket Race Specials Clacton Pullman, Eastern Belle, Bournemouth Belle, the war years and disposal of the Pullman vehicles. In Journal 73 John provides some updates information, addendum and comments by Terry Bye of the Pullman Car Society. I hope the above is of interest Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 Pullmans are a minefield! In Pullman Profile Volume 1, Antony Ford records the following ex GE cars being used on services other than the Sheffield Pullman. Ansonia - rebuilt as 16 seat 1st brake / parlour 1924 for Bradford portion of Harrogate Pullman Arcadia - worked on Edinburgh Pullman 1925 46 - rebuilt as 18 seat 3rd class brake parlour for Newcastle portion of Harrogate Pullman 57 - rebuilt as 36 seat kitchen car after 1923, worked in Scotland 1929-1939 (my note: it does not say where this car worked between 1923 and 1929). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 From John's article: In 1924: Ansonia and Arcadia (16 seats each) were converted to First brake & luggage and No 46 and 57 (18 seats) and 40 and 41 (30 seats) were converted to Third brake & luggage for the Sheffield Pullman. After abandoning the Sheffield Pullman all six cars were transferred from September 1925 to form the West Riding Pullman, from 1928 became the West Riding Pullman, which in 1930 was still formed of GER Pullmans, but when renamed in 1935 as the Yorkshire Pullman only three GE cars being used; first brake parlour, third kitchen and third brake parlour. All Pullman services ceased on the outbreak of war, but some GE Section cars continued to run in this train into the late 1930's. John's article is very long and comprehensive and I've tried to extract comment as best I can. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 From John's article: In 1924: Ansonia and Arcadia (16 seats each) were converted to First brake & luggage and No 46 and 57 (18 seats) and 40 and 41 (30 seats) were converted to Third brake & luggage for the Sheffield Pullman. After abandoning the Sheffield Pullman all six cars were transferred from September 1925 to form the West Riding Pullman, from 1928 became the West Riding Pullman, which in 1930 was still formed of GER Pullmans, but when renamed in 1935 as the Yorkshire Pullman only three GE cars being used; first brake parlour, third kitchen and third brake parlour. All Pullman services ceased on the outbreak of war, but some GE Section cars continued to run in this train into the late 1930's. John's article is very long and comprehensive and I've tried to extract comment as best I can. Paul In the relevant chapter rather than the briefer table which I quoted earlier, there is some further text quoting a contemporary report from Modern Transport stating that Ansonia and Arcadia were allocated to the Bradford portion of the Harrogate Pullman. Still in the context of the Harrogate Pullman, it goes on to mention 46 and 57. The next paragraph then begins... Probably spurred on by the 'conspicuous success' of the 'Harrogate Pullman', on 2nd June 1924, four ex GER third-class Pullmans Nos. 40, 41,45 and 56 were utilised, with a new 8-wheel first class car Geraldine to form a similar train between Sheffield, Nottingham and London. Please don't assume that I am trying to score points here Paul or to belittle John's articles but perhaps there is a little ambiguity in the wording of the first paragraph you quote? Antony Ford's series of Pullman books are the most comprehensive Pullman-related texts I have seen and were written with the assistance of the Pullman Society. What always amazes me is that a company that paid such close attention to detail when it came to interior trim in particular, could keep such poor records when it came to where their vehicles went over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 I've come to posting because I'm at my wits end trying to find information! One of my wants is to eventually model a 5 coach rake of the "Sheffield Pullman", which was made up of Pullmans used by the GER and shuffled around the LNER at different stages. My only problem is I don't know much about these specific coaches! Any info I have is from Steve Banks' "LNER Passenger Trains and Formations", any help is appreciated. BTW Synch, remember that the Sheffield Pullman is pre 1928 and would have been in the original standard colours which means the board above the windows should be cream and not umber. As in the photo on page 176 of Banks and Carter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synch Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thank you so much for the information, will be looking into those journals now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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