westonman Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi all,can anyone tell me where the lamps are fitted on a 14xx when pulling an auto coach. Cheers Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted January 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2017 See: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1258.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john dew Posted January 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2017 It may depend on the Year. Pre nationalisation the position for the lamp on an "ordinary" (ie stopping) passenger train was a single lamp.... at the top of the smoke box A single lamp in the centre of the buffer beam, as in the photo, was the code for a light engine Some time after nationalistion this was change/relaxed so it was not at all uncommon to see locos hauling ordinary passenger trains with the lamp on the buffer beam. The photo above is dated 1957. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I would look through all the photos you can. Yes, there are the official positions as in all the books but in reality, the crew would just plonk it on the nearest lamp bracket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 The choice is yours: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Monmouth_(Troy)_Station,_with_local_trains_geograph-2591621-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westonman Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Thanks for your replies,i have seen them on top of the smoke box ( as you say ordinary passenger ) and also on the center of the buffer beam ( light engine ) all in pictures,just wondered which was correct. Just have to choose which one to go for. Cheers Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 The choice is yours: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Monmouth_(Troy)_Station,_with_local_trains_geograph-2591621-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg I like that - however the one on 1455 is probably a tail lamp (not alight, if the tail lamp is alight it should be on the centre bracket above the buffer plank). And that on 6439 could be one of the following - a. A light engine (empty auto-trains were treated as light engines as far as the Rules & Regs were concerned), or, b. A lighted tail lamp, or, c. It's on the wrong lamp bracket, or, d. It is on a train running over a line where a variation from the normal position of a Class B headlamp was authorised Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 I would look through all the photos you can. Yes, there are the official positions as in all the books but in reality, the crew would just plonk it on the nearest lamp bracket. Not if they expected to get past the. first signal box they didn't! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Same movement at Monmonth Troy: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7527/15992506637_9b350e60b7_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7566/16287119391_f6a5fb0eec_b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 Same movement at Monmonth Troy: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7527/15992506637_9b350e60b7_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7566/16287119391_f6a5fb0eec_b.jpg That lamp on 6431 might be alight - bit of hint of life in it. In both cases the train is coming towards the photographer, presumably as part of a reversing/crossing over move, so the lamp on 6431 might not have been changed over since arrival - so did both trains arrive off the same route? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2017 Like the answer to a lot of questions on RMweb, it depends. The correct position for a Class B passenger train, which auto trains generally were, is on top of the smokebox, but on some services it was certainly carried on the middle buffer beam bracket (not plonked on the nearest one the crew could get to), by local instruction authority. The idea that an empty stock auto train was treated as a light engine for signalling purposes is a new one on me, you learn something every day! My own blt is inspired by Abergwynfi in the South Wales valleys, I would not go so far as to say based on and in no way a model of, but it does mean that I have checked out as many online photos of Abergwynfi as I can. Perhaps because it is a particularly easy station to photograph from the road embankment at the buffer stop end, most shots are of arriving trains or those standing in the platform, and all the autos have lamps on the top of their loco's smokeboxes. This seems to have been the general rule in South Wales, but I cannot answer for other parts of the world. There is a point about empty auto trains with the trailer leading, in that they would not have been able to show the correct headcode for an ecs train; perhaps this explains why the centre buffer light engine code was used. It is important that a signalman realises that what may look like a passenger train is in fact not carrying passengers, so that he may route it over pointwork not equipped with facing point locks or onto permissive block sections. It is sometimes difficult to tell in a black and white photo whether a head or tail lamp is being carried; the nature of auto work being that it was bi-directional and a loco propelling a train carries the tail lamp, on the centre buffer beam bracket. I believe I am right in saying that auto fitted locos and the trailers carried dual purpose lamps that had a red shade which you could slide in to convert the lamp from head to tail use, the shade living in a slot on the side when it was not in use. This saved time in changing the lamps around, an important consideration on some routes where the rapid turnaround afforded by auto work was an essential part of the timetable, and may account for some headlamps being carried on the centre buffer beam bracket where allowed. If the photo is of a train running loco hauled towards you so that you can see which road it is on and signalled for, or, on a single line, clearly moving towards you, then it is reasonable to assume that whatever lamp(s) the loco is carrying is intended to be read as the headcode, but if the train is being propelled, or at a platform, it may not be so easy to assert whether a head or tail lamp is visible. Photos of auto trains in the London division suggest that headlamps on buffer beam brackets were common practice there, and I have seen shots of Cheltenham-Gloucester and Lostwithiel Branch auto trains lamped this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 The choice is yours: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Monmouth_(Troy)_Station,_with_local_trains_geograph-2591621-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg You really need pictures of trains between stations to be sure which way the train is going. It is often unclear which way Autos are going All the trains in Miss Prisms pics are either awaiting departure or have arrived and are changing or awaiting changing platforms so the lamps may well not be set ready for departure or even set as for an arrival. The Monmouth Troy location is confusing. it looks like 6431 in the second pair of photos is in lined green (post 1956) which means the Pontypool road line through the tunnel had closed to passengers (1955) so the trains were Ross and Chepstow services. 6439 is at the at the departure platform preparing to depart, the 14XX is at the arrival platform waiting to cross over by running into the tunnel into the head shunt and back through the trailing crossovers ready to depart. neither platform was signalled reversibly and the junction was just off the platform end. Prior to the Pontypool Road line closing Pontypool trains arrived at the same platform that Chepstow and Ross trains departed from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi all,can anyone tell me where the lamps are fitted on a 14xx when pulling an auto coach. Cheers Bob Go on, buy another loco and have both styles. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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