ozamrr Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Hi all I am from down under, found this forum when searching how to wire a rotary switching more than one throttle, found the control panel thread went from there so here I am, many thanks. Got back into the hobby in 1995 when I built my first module layout after we had a big covered pergola built, I used DPDT switch between two throttles, till I came across 00 scale garden railway, 2014 when the construction started, the only way to build a huge layout is garden way mine is module taking a lot longer to build, not far now from running the first test loco. Time to start designing the new control panel, want to run more than two trains the rotary switch will do the job, I have drawn up a plan on back of the switch, is this the correct way or do I have to split the pins into groups of four, the first four are for the LED indicator, have I wired the switch going by the pic correctly. Here is the drawing pic of behind the rotary switch, second pic is of stage one of my station complex with approach modules two from the car port and one where the spiral starts, the bus wires be plug and play easy to join and bolt the modules together, the track on the left of the pic will go out past the corner steel post hand rails on the path way. ozamrr from down under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2017 I think you have pins 9-12 wired the wrong way round. Unless there's a really weird component in there, throttle 1 should be wired to 5&9, then to 6&10, 7&11, 8&12. I worry about having the DCC on there. Make sure all the positions are break before make so that 2 throttles don't get connected. Some switches short between adjacent terminals as they are turned. The LEDs mystifies me, but that's your stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I think you have pins 9-12 wired the wrong way round. Unless there's a really weird component in there, throttle 1 should be wired to 5&9, then to 6&10, 7&11, 8&12. I worry about having the DCC on there. Make sure all the positions are break before make so that 2 throttles don't get connected. Some switches short between adjacent terminals as they are turned. The LEDs mystifies me, but that's your stuff. Agreeing with you here, David, the potential contacts are why I always leave an empty terminal between each wired one, and choose switches with more poles than I actually need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2017 Some info on wiring rotary switches can be found on Brian Lambert's page here. http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html#SWITCHES Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Basically A always contacts to pins 1, 2 and 3 on a 4pole 3way rotary, additionally to pin 4 on 3 pole 4 way rotary and additionally to pins 5 & 6 on 2 pole 6way rotary. B then follows on the next set of pins as applicable to the number of ways and C and D ( if they exist) so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Many thanks everyone for the quick response I though of wiring the rotary that way so did a drawing why I joined the forum to get advice which I have, that link has a lot of info to ready and again more ideas. SRman are you from down under going by the DURM I will check them out. I will solder the RS that way, I did try it the way on the drawing did work but I had the solder the track wire onto the pole used by the LEDs, (A) B instead of B-C actually worked was over the moon but your way is better. Going to make lots of new friend as I go along I find the pics easy to upload from my pic folder, more pics tomorrow and a video clip of the rotary switching , you guys said it wasn't a good idea to have DCC switching from the rotary switch, will make full use of the four positions , two mainline trains and two locals for shunting at the station and siding, the electronic shop I buy my stuff from the biggest rotary switch they sell is a 6 position switch. Do I put my first name here when signing off or user name ozamrr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi still having a problem with the rotary switch, overloaded a switch in the trannie makes a noise when I switch it on have to wait for a while for it to cool down, I think I may have to give the idea of using a rotary switch and go back to DPDT switches and hopefully use LEDS to high light each throttle, got plenty of DPDT switches, disappointing morning, may be able to sort it out when I go to my train club or any other ideas welcome, very frustrating.. Yes David I could only get to positions working . ozamrr from down under. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2017 It depends on how you like being addressed in our replies. If I make a facetious remark, you may be addressed as "ozam" or "Mr. mrr" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi BR60103, I love what you have suggested singing off as ozam, not your first name am is my name initials actually I got the idea from the movie Silver Strick railroad name on the coaches AM RailRoad. Looks like I am stuck with Dual cab control till I fix the trannie ,it is clicking pretty loud, must of shorted out some where. ozam from down under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) I have used Rotary's for 30 odd years and have never had a failure, melted a few wiring them up but never worn one out. You seem to be over thinking this and under testing. First find a centre contact and work out which outer contact it has continuity to with the switch full left, it will contact the next three outers to the right (on a 4 way 3 pole) The usual cause of problems is following a wiring diagram and misidentifying which group of 4 outers connect to which inner. You can't see on "Maplin" switches and while logically the inner should be in the middle of the outers it is usually at one end. It is dead easy to get the wires wrong and equally easy to melt the plastic switches by getting a contact too hot. Edited January 31, 2017 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi David can I ask you a favour to draw ther way you wire the 3pole 4way rotary switch, there are so may different ways to wire them and soconfusing to pic the right one, I have the Easy Model Railroad wiring mag and they have a different version with switching three throttles using a 4way switch, so the first 4 be uesd for the LED indicators. I also came across a PDF file on more info on the 3pole 44way rotary switch. http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Labs/docs/RotarySwitchHowTo.pdf Here is a pic of the drawing from the mag will that work and how do I wire in a forth throttle Found in the garden railway thread a couple of 00 scale garden railway layout, nice where I will start a thread on the construction of my layout, being at it now for a couple of years all the front modules for the station complete is finished ready to paint, spiral is done need to set up the cut bottom track base of the spiral, all that needs doing is the massive 24foot cable stay double deck bridge in 4 sections, layout is a module design. Just found out that it pays to have files attachments ready to paste as where you go back from your favourites folder, you lose what you have typed out ozam from down under, keeping on moving a head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 Apologies, but I can't do drawings on the computer. Best I can suggest is crank the handle as far over as it goes and see which terminals connect. Then move one spot and check again -- should be the next terminal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Hi BR60103, I drew that wairing plan by free hand, going to build a temporary control panel using a couple of DPDT switches to switch the throttles till I sort out the rotary switch, like to buy to newest Model Railroader wiring mag will have more up to date wiring and ihas DCC wiring as well. It is pretty hot here in oz today peaking 38 degrees, will be higher than that in the sun I use an old remote that has a temp gauge in it, put it out under the pergola as the weather station at Amberley RAAF base is inside a small shed that has insulation, I go by the remote temp can be 8 degree difference. Not much work on the layout, only later afternoon what I did yesterday , replacing the screws for countersunk quarter inch bolts using those T bolts in the module leg three of the station modules are ready to be painted. Time to move over to the garden railway thread, will keep everyone posted on the progress of wiring the rotary switch. Bye from ozam down under keeping on moving a head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 If you can wire a DPDT switch, does it help at all to think of your rotary switch as a three pole four way switch? Because that's what it is. It's just that the 'toggle' goes round rather than up and down. I think BR60103 was right first time: you had pins 9-12 wired wrong compared to pins 5-8. I also agree with BR60103 that sitting down with a multimeter and a switch that isn't wired to anything will allow you to verify which pins get connected in each switch position, and might help you to understand what the switch is doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi ejstubbs, yes I can wire DPDT switches, the last layout was DC Dual control , blocks just learnt how to wire in a third throttle adding a third DPDT and a forth throttle becoming Local throttles, that is one tool I don't have is a multimeter, looks like I will have to invest in one, the question is do to need a dear one or cheap one and I will have learn to use it, would of saved shorting out my transformer it doesn't have a fuse as such either have to have a look at it . My other two made up transformers do have fuses not going to use the rotary switches to I sort them out hopefully get some help at my train club next Saturday, will wire up the DPDT switches, layout is not far away all the front modules to the front right corner module, spiral is built on the left hand side, needs to be painted track laid wiring, need the join up the blocks, if I can't this transformer will have to replace it. osam from down under Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Re multimeters, I'm sure other folks will be able to offer more in-depth advice than me but FWIW I don't think you need to aim particularly high. Digital is undoubtedly convenient. I think this is the current incarnation of the one I have - the scale ranges and controls look very similar to mine, and I know I got mine from Maplin. (I don't know what the Aussie equivalent of Maplin is but I know that you can get similar devices for similar money from DIY stores over here.) Maybe AC amps would be useful if you are in to DCC; I don't know, I'm not that way inclined. One thing I would suggest is that you get a set slightly better set of test cables than the basic set that come with the meter, which will usually just be red and black cables with simple pointy test probes. I think a set with mini croc clips is essential. I find that electrical fault-finding can get a bit like soldering: you always end up needing one more hand than you've got! Not having to hold test probes in place at the same time as fiddling with switches and potentiometers is really quite useful. Shrouded/insulated clips are essential: when you're doing continuity testing, you don't want the test lead connectors making contact with things they shouldn't be behind your back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi ejstubbs, yes I can wire DPDT switches, the last layout was DC Dual control , blocks just learnt how to wire in a third throttle adding a third DPDT and a forth throttle becoming Local throttles, that is one tool I don't have is a multimeter, looks like I will have to invest in one, the question is do to need a dear one or cheap one and I will have learn to use it, would of saved shorting out my transformer it doesn't have a fuse as such either have to have a look at it . My other two made up transformers do have fuses not going to use the rotary switches to I sort them out hopefully get some help at my train club next Saturday, will wire up the DPDT switches, layout is not far away all the front modules to the front right corner module, spiral is built on the left hand side, needs to be painted track laid wiring, need the join up the blocks, if I can't this transformer will have to replace it. osam from down under Multimeters. Here's a minimum entry one for you & probably available from Jaycar in Ipswich! It isn't working for the 'check for stock' function yet. https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-catiii-multimeter-with-data-hold/p/QM1517 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi ejstubbs and kevinims, many thanks for the advice on the multimeter , I am going to Jar-car tomorrow to buy a elbow for the TV antenna plug in the wall will check the multimeter, will let you know if I will buy one , not a bad price under $20 I should have one , not sure what DCC system to buy when I go that way thinking of Hornby, they have a model that will connect to the computer, that way my son can get involved and control the layout on his computer. I have a bit of time yet before needing a control panel, looking a modifying my old control panel from the last layout till I decide what switches to use. Ready to pant the three station modules have to buy some more putty as the stuff I had dried up and the lid was closed tight get some different stuff, too hot during the day peaked 35 in under the pergola did some work after tea, what's it like in Launching Place, is it still snowing in the UK you can send some snow my way to cool us down osam from down under. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 I bit the dust and bought a multimter a long waiting tool, the guy in Jar-Car surjusted to go the next model up, now I will have to larn how to use, hopefully the guys at the train club on Saturday be able to, wont be running too many trains that day as I want to get the rotary switch issue sorted out. I will be taking my famous Hornby Flying Scott she has two powered dual tender drive tenders , pulls 11 coaches with ease,being told I am the only member hat has done it , have to sort out the coaches some of them keep derailing on points mainly. Does anyone know how to split the screen with windows edge, Chrome used the Tab button. ozam from down under 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 HI all, don't worry about how to split a windows edge screen, question found out how it is done, it's not splitting the screen in half, you actually open two tabs to the left hand side of the screen were the how to wire a rotary switch open two tags there quite easy once you know how, in any case edge won't let you do that . ozam from down under. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 all ready to go was over at my firends house today sorting out the rotary switch and used my multimetre to check the poles of the switch Pole A position 1-2-3-4 poles B and C 5 to 9, position 1 position 2 6 to 10 position 3 7 to 11 position 4 8 to 12, the rotary switches be set up in the control panel before soldering the LEDS to the fist 4 positions and covering the bare wires, learnt this as I thought the trannie was in a bad way, it turned out it was the bridge rectifier that was the problem easy fix. My friend said I can join two throttles together on one 6amp trannie, the walk around throttles are 2 amp and the two remote throttles are 3amp each, I am thinking of wiring a fuse between the two throttles and trannie, I am thinking of wiring in a DPDT switch for direction on rotary switch positon connecting to the track, will that work. I have a big job ahead building the new control panel being my next project. Cheers from ozam from down under keeping on moving ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Digital multimeters are popular but I much prefer an analogue type simply because the needle damping is much better as the digital readouts can simply become a blur when the voltage etc is fluctuating. Also the needle makes a satisfying clunk when it swings to and fro when checking for continuity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Hi David, didn't see any analogue multimeters at Jar car are they easier to use to the digital ones, I have to read through the book again a few times to get the hang of it, mainly got it to check the pins on the rotary and checking the track, other uses will come later, I know the basics in DC , layout construction is coming along nicely . ozam from down under keeping on moving ahead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2017 Hi David, didn't see any analogue multimeters at Jar car are they easier to use to the digital ones, I have to read through the book again a few times to get the hang of it, mainly got it to check the pins on the rotary and checking the track, other uses will come later, I know the basics in DC , layout construction is coming along nicely . ozam from down under keeping on moving ahead There is this one. Perhaps you would need to order one in? https://www.jaycar.com.au/analogue-movement-multimeter/p/QM1020 Personally, I'm not so sure they are better, its a while since I last used one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozamrr Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Hi kevinims, must of forgot to send the post yesterday, , year your are right , but drpends if Jar-car can order it in some shops only have what they order on the shelfs, I will have to get uesed to using the digital one I have,many thanks for the link, I be keeping everyone informed on the progress of wiring the rotary switch. I have learnt for now on the rotary switches will be mounted in the control panel before wiring up the next one, the great news is my trannie will be fixed , it was the bridge rectifier that was the problem , gee the new replacement is half the size that is technology for you same with the trannie in the old transformer it is triple the size to the new ones coming out today. Got to make a start on the new control panel, the plan is one of my 6 amp trannies will have two throttles wired ,I will have a twelve volt bulb to protect shorts on the track, how is the bulb wired on one wire positive or negative., the second 6amp trannie has two 12volt outlets and one 15 to17volt line, one throttle and the others used for lighting and signals , toe CDA trannie I am getting fixed will have one throttle. ozam from down under keeping on moving ahea Edited February 22, 2017 by ozamrr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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