Jump to content
 

Modern Micro Layout


Recommended Posts

  • 8 months later...
  • RMweb Gold

Wow, it's been 9 months since I last posted. Far too long. A few weeks ago I tackled a minor electrical issue in isolating the extra siding on road 2. As the wiring was configured both lines would be live when the points were set into the new siding as power for each road comes from the fiddle yard. Some re-routing of the wiring and a new switch means locos can now 'pass' each other in the fiddle yard, adding considerable operational flexibility to the layout.

 

Next jobs will be detailing and weathering the scenery, and finding suitable locations for a selection of Eckon signals I picked up cheap at the Southend show last month.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just found this after seeing a comment you made on another thread.

I hope you got your electrical fault sorted, but he is a thought for your next layout.

 

Modelling DCC with electrofrog points has made me change my wiring methods but this can be applied equally to DC:

Past experience with dirty point blades & rail joiners has taught me to never rely on them for electrical conductivity. I solder link rails between them & the stock rail (which Electrofrogs allow you to do very easily). They also require you to isolate then re-feed the siding. Dirt at rail joiners becomes a problem on larger layouts.

For these reasons, I always isolate after every rail at the frog end of each point. Since you have every siding switched, you would not need to rely on point blades for feedng the sidings.

 

I helped wire a friend's layout fairly recently & he did not isolate after every point (although his were electrofrogs). It drove me crazy trying to work out where things were being fed from. Far from being easier to use the point for feeding the siding, it made the layout difficult to understand.

 

Regarding your other issue about running over pointwork, I have found that most RTR back to backs are wrong. I think it is quite poor from the manufacturers, but it seems we are stuck with it for now.

Did you get a gauge for this?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I just found this after seeing a comment you made on another thread.

I hope you got your electrical fault sorted, but he is a thought for your next layout.

 

Modelling DCC with electrofrog points has made me change my wiring methods but this can be applied equally to DC:

Past experience with dirty point blades & rail joiners has taught me to never rely on them for electrical conductivity. I solder link rails between them & the stock rail (which Electrofrogs allow you to do very easily). They also require you to isolate then re-feed the siding. Dirt at rail joiners becomes a problem on larger layouts.

For these reasons, I always isolate after every rail at the frog end of each point. Since you have every siding switched, you would not need to rely on point blades for feedng the sidings.

 

I helped wire a friend's layout fairly recently & he did not isolate after every point (although his were electrofrogs). It drove me crazy trying to work out where things were being fed from. Far from being easier to use the point for feeding the siding, it made the layout difficult to understand.

 

Regarding your other issue about running over pointwork, I have found that most RTR back to backs are wrong. I think it is quite poor from the manufacturers, but it seems we are stuck with it for now.

Did you get a gauge for this?

Hi Pete

 

Thanks for the reply and the useful info. My points are insulfrog because one of the objectives of this layout was to use as much of what I had lying around as possible to save money, and I had a lot of ex-train set track. What I did do was solder droppers to all 3 "ends" of each point so there is power coming into the point on each side, the power being switched as to the appropriate direction. This has ensured continuous power to locos traversing them. My wiring and switching is completely manual as I don't "get" electrics and it adds to the operational enjoyment of flicking switches to set the routes. I am not sure if this is the same as what you've done with your electrofrogs, although I didn't isolate the ends of the points which I think is a good point for next time.

 

i did resolve my electrical issue which was down to getting confused by the spaghetti wiring underneath and one section being wired the wrong way through the switch. Being organised is not my thing!!

 

On B2B's, I got a DCC B2B gauge and agree, a lot of loco's are well off on their back to backs. Sorting those out will be a job to get set up for and plough through my loco stock one day. That said the plastic on the check rail as suggested earlier in this thread has overcome the issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • RMweb Gold

Progress at last, other than buying more trains......

 

Semi-permanent room location was decided upon, with it running along one wall of a smallish single bedroom. A search for furniture that would support the layout and provide storage without protruding into the room produced this rather useful product from Ikea:

 

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/fjaellbo-shelving-unit-black-50339292/

 

Almost exactly the right depth and plenty of storage. 2 next to each other worked really well.

 

This left some spare room so I had already produced 2 fiddle yards, one at each end fixed in place using large bolts. However these were too long and unwieldy. They had made from a stash of 4' x 2' baseboards I made years ago but never used. They had Sundeala tops with 2 x 1 softwood frames underneath. As each had a longitudinal brace underneath I simply jigsawed along one side of the brace to create 2x 4" boards of slightly different widths but almost 1' wide.

 

IMGP0157.JPG.ef8ae6eb736d49798667c0bfb2ca942c.JPG

I now took one of these and simply sawed it to length to fit the shelving, still giving a fiddle yard at each end. Some scraps of wood underneath matched the height, the fine tuning done with cork underlay. Now I can have through trains. This area isn't scenic so will be left bare. The black end board from the original layout is just screwed into the end to stop trains falling off the end.

 

IMGP0156.JPG.65a82f06e29df991b5c06d2d685f635a.JPG

 

Edited by ruggedpeak
photos
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 16:41, ruggedpeak said:

So onto the wiring. A word of caution, any competent electricians or those who like wiring done properly, please skip this post......

 

The plan was to run the layout with a single controller, so only one movement at a time. There are 3 lines in the fiddle yard leading into 3 lines on the scenic area and points linking. Every piece of track has droppers to ensure connectivity. Power enters each of the 3 lines from the fiddle yard end. Using the switches to select which line is powered and divert power in a particular direction through the points, a specific route can be selected and the movement take place without affecting anything else.

 

In keeping with the low cost goals, the switches are cheap ones from Railroom Electronics. The blue and red wires are from the controller. The first 3 switches select DC or DCC (this has yet to be wired up) and which line, the remaining 4 switch the direction of power for each of the 4 points, effectively setting the routes.

 

gallery_24698_4156_517603.jpg

 

The red switch to the right is for the isolating section at the end of what will be the platform on line 1 (nearest the camera on the right)

 

gallery_24698_4156_1594912.jpg

 

Told you the wiring wasn't good......

 

gallery_24698_4156_2446434.jpg

 

Having wired up the switches and tested the layout, there is power everywhere. On testing the various route permutations I have found a minor problem. If I have locos in the fiddle yard in lines 2 and 3, and try to run the loco in line 2 into the siding in line 3, both locos move. I am going to have to map all the wires carefully to figure it out. I've already mapped the route/switch configurations and tested for power across the layout so that I know which parts are energised in any given setting, and there are several areas energised at the wrong time. So I'm guessing somewhere wires are joined that should be joined via the switches. It won't be hard for anyone who can do wiring diagrams etc, but I've never got my head around them!

 

gallery_24698_4156_34249.jpg

 

A job for another day. However the layout is usable and trains run happily around it.

 

At the risk of coming across as a rivet counter, what the distance between the two roads, no.2 and 3, at the bottom, only the use of the Y point seems to make them look too close together....

Edited by 18B
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 22/02/2020 at 00:50, 18B said:

 

At the risk of coming across as a rivet counter, what the distance between the two roads, no.2 and 3, at the bottom, only the use of the Y point seems to make them look too close together....

HI

 

The ines are close together but are not in the scenic area, see below:

 

 

IMG_20200223_1329391[1630].jpg.png

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
  • RMweb Gold

Not much action as have moved outside to the garden layout (see below). However I have accumulated a number of Eckon signals over the years and am looking to put some signals in.

 

The initial phase is to signal the platforms. Road one is simple with a single signal at the end (where the 66 is), however Road 2 is less straightforward. I have positioned a 2 head signal part way along the platform which controls the junction. However in full micro layout operation (no fiddle yard to the left) the 143 and other trains that are longer than a single unit are stopped on the platform on the points and past the signal. When the fiddle yard is attached they can sit back behind the signal.

 

I have looked at Simon Paley's excellent book but am struggling to find a legitimate solution. The first thought was a second starter at the end of the platform that would repeat the main signal for the left hand route. But I don't see any reference to this sort of repeat signal after the primary signal.

 

Similary there is a ground based signal head shown in figure 102 of the book but the same issue applies. One possibility might be the reverse facing indicator as per figure 59, so a driver sitting on the left hand route can look back for the signal? Any thoughts welcome! I am working on the basis a position light signal is not relevant here.

 

 

IMGP0547.JPG

IMGP0548.JPG

Edited by ruggedpeak
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Not much action as have moved outside to the garden layout (see below). However I have accumulated a number of Eckon signals over the years and am looking to put some signals in.

 

The initial phase is to signal the platforms. Road one is simple with a single signal at the end (where the 66 is), however Road 2 is less straightforward. I have positioned a 2 head signal part way along the platform which controls the junction. However in full micro layout operation (no fiddle yard to the left) the 143 and other trains that are longer than a single unit are stopped on the platform on the points and past the signal. When the fiddle yard is attached they can sit back behind the signal.

 

I have looked at Simon Paley's excellent book but am struggling to find a legitimate solution. The first thought was a second starter at the end of the platform that would repeat the main signal for the left hand route. But I don't see any reference to this sort of repeat signal after the primary signal.

 

Similary there is a ground based signal head shown in figure 102 of the book but the same issue applies. One possibility might be the reverse facing indicator as per figure 59, so a driver sitting on the left hand route can look back for the signal? Any thoughts welcome! I am working on the basis a position light signal is not relevant here.

 

 

IMGP0547.JPG

IMGP0548.JPG

 

Hi,

 

Normally, this problem doesn't really come up in real life (in fact very rarely, which is why I don't comment on it the book), but it could be a way around it, depending on what you want to do. In this case it is not as simple as a OFF indicator on the rear of the signal, because of how close the points are to the signal and the fact the units sit over the points.

 

If all the units which sit past the signal only come in and out on the same single route, say towards from the platform towards the 66, then it might be possible to fit some special standing forward controls and provide an 'OFF' Indicator at the end of the platforms (something that we proposed for a project a few years ago),

 

If the units use either route, then I'm afraid that there isn't a way around it, simply because the units would be sitting on the dead locking track circuit for the points which would prevent the points from being moved by the Interlocking.

 

Simon

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

THanks Simon, that is really useful and glad I got the gist of signalling from your book :D Also good to see I created a very rare situation on my layout!

 

The units would only ever come and go via Road 1 i.e. towards the 66, so some form of indicator at the platform end is ideal. Any idea what that might look like?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • RMweb Gold

Action at last, had added a short section to the left hand end of the layout so it has the option to be a through station rather than a terminus, with a short fiddle yard at each end. That has now evolved into the fiddle yard becoming a longer terminus station. The fiddle yard is an offcut from when I cut existing 4' x 2' sundeala topped baseboards in half for another project. They are attached to the existing layout with 2 big bolts. Nothing sophisticated. Joins are with rail joiners as this will not be move often/at all. Wiring carries over under the boards for continuity.

 

The next board will have the existing 3 lines, with the platform continued along the full length to the end. Another viaduct will sit over the end where the station buildings would be, however this will be half width to allow room for the siding at the far side off Line no.1. Thus only Lines 1 and 2 will have platform, Line 3 being a siding. All 3 lines will have isolating sections, Lines 1 and 2 being the full length of the new board as this will allow DMU's to be isolated whilst in the platform. Line 3 has a section at the end to allow a single loco to be isolated. I will update the Anyrail plans later.

 

As before I am using whatever I have to hand, including some not great Hornby flexi that was in stock. Sleeper literally slide straight off the rail. Have had to buy more cork sheet but everything else was to hand. Cork is a patch work as I tried to get away with the remaining offcuts but wasn't enough. Currently sorting track wiring and wire and tube for the point. PVA taking a while to dry in the now very damp and humid weather.....

 

IMG_20200815_1357090.jpg.f6e72375bb60a663cc1caa082cde3825.jpg

 

For rubbish solderers like me I have found 2 types of flux that work really well. For tinning wires and most things Silverline Solder paste is great, dip the end in the paste and it works a treat. To get solder on the bottom of rails, which is not always easy I use DCC Concepts Sapphire No Cleanflux, a liquid that immediately removes tarnish and makes getting solder on easy. In tandem they seem to cover every scenario a basic solderer needs.

 

Do have to moan about QC on locos. Bought 6 locos during lockdown, 2 were faulty with factory faults that in one case a quick inspection would have spotted the bodge job under the chassis, the other a short test run would have picked up the very noisy motor and vibration.

One was Bachmann and one Hornby. Hopefully I have just been unlucky but a 1/3 failure rate isn't great. Pleased to report Bachmann are repairing one on behalf of the retailer, and the other has been replaced by the retailer, so very appreciative of the service from Colletts and MRD during lockdown and dealing with issues not of their making.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Scenery for the new section will be another Metcalfe viaduct as per the existing two, but will be cut down to half width. Another Metcalfe retaining wall will run along the back, but will have to be set back further than the existing one due to the extra siding. Managed to track down the required Metcalfe kits, one online and one at John Dutfields. Also found my Poppy's DOGA Modellers Measuring Stick I bought at a show some time ago to look at the platform hieght. It is quite a few mm lower than required, and I always thought it looked low. Will have to resolve for both old and new platform as it is built to the standard Metcalfe height.

 

Tracked down some generally unavailable Oxford Diecast vehicles at www.elizkeith.com and got a couple of Ford Connect vans which have been 'Colasised' using a mix of Railtec and GM Model Supplies transfers. Not 100% prototypical but look good. Technically the rear door logo is bigger than on the sides, however the available transfers are just slightly too big to fit the rear door panel so I have reversed this. Need to change the registrations at some point as both the same. Just noticed the rear tyre on the left hand van, needs refitting!

 

IMG_20200815_1438194.jpg.77fc24b565b58cbbadd21f380d0f7ce2.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • RMweb Gold

A while since I've posted. The extension is in place and I have installed a couple of ModelTech rail aligners on the baseboard join. Relatively easy to install. Doing it 'retrospectively' with the join already in place getting the rails to be both in gauge and aligned between both sides was fiddly but could have just put a new piece of flexi in and the cut through it as you'd do in a new build. Look good and are very discrete once the metal is blackened and area ballasted. Provide a clean level join and are better than my isolation gaps!

 

IMGP3651.JPG.69813cbfb2d7270fffc922bf37759fa6.JPG

 

The extension has a series of isolated areas in it that allows a number of locos or units to be lined up, allowing even more locos to be on the layout and more operational activity, although it is mostly light loco movements. Have been reballasting with a lighter shade of stone, trying a bag from 'Bulkscence' on Ebay. Lighter colour with patches of the old darker colour looks good as it looks like recent reballasting by the PW department. Needs more work and weathering however.

 

On the workbench side I decided to have a go at significant relivery of Hornby 67's. Bit of a stretch for me as painting etc is not my strong point. However the availability of DB Cargo red Hornby 67's at Kernow in their bargain section (now seem to have gone but they have added the Belmond Pullman 67's) meant it was an opportunity to experiment. 67013 had the DBS logo before it, along with 67010, 67015 and 67028 received the DB 'next generation' and 'first choice' liveries. The plan was to remove the DBS logo and replace it with the text liveries, which are available from Railtec. I bought 2 of the 67's so I could have one of each livery.

 

Removing the existing tampo logo was harder than expected due to the ribbed sides. Inside the valley of the ribs the tampo was well applied on the sides and base of the rib 'valley' and tryign to remove it using conventional methods saw the body paint also being removed it was thin. After various trails I ordered some DLE-90 from Germany. Allegedly the miracle stuff for tampo removal it certainly proved its worth once I understood how to use it. Experimenting on some Hornby Mk2's that will become DBSO's to get the intercity markings off, I found that a single application of the DLE-90 onto the tampo only, then left to dry, hardened the tampo and made it brittle. Gentle application of a toothpick saw it chip and flake off in chunks without any significant pressure. The extent of any glossing was limited to wherever the DLE had been applied - very accurate application means minimal damage to the surrounding area. As someone who has struggled with T-cut and various other methods this was a revelation and makes it much easier for those of us with good co-ordination!

 

Having done some damage prior to getting the DLE-90 I needed to repaint. Definitely not doing a full repaint, so have repainted the ribbed area on each side using Railmatch acrylic, latterly mixed with a little bit of black to darken it. Not a perfect match to the rest of the loco but good enough in my eyes. At normal layout angles/distances it is fine. It took a lot of layers as the acrylic is quite thin and was initially struggling to cover the problem areas. Once done it had Klear applied.

 

Applying the transfers is very tricky, Railtec recommend using Humbrol Decalfix rather than other brands. However for the hamfisted like me the very fine transfers are difficult to align on the ribs, and I have wrecked several items! Definitely a learning exercise, and I note my original set only had 2 set of the large livery items, having had to reorder the newer version has 3, very helpful as I wrecked another one this morning. Patience and care is definitely required. Having eventually got some on straight and undamaged as they dry some careful manipulation was used to help them settle, using a cocktail stick to push them into the ribs, and a scalpel to cut the carrier film in places to assist this settling. Meanwhile the flat bits of the loco are somewaht easier. Getting there slowly....

 

IMGP3655.JPG.945fbb368acc26fd0569cbe57d5a9903.JPG

 

Have also been building some Cambrian kits, and have 2 DBSO's to convert, trying a PH Designs kit for a NR version, and a 3d printed cab end from Andrew on here (via Ebay) for a DRS version.

 

Both look good and I have still have my homemade version that I did as a teenager after the conversion was in Railway Modeller several decades ago....next step is deciding what to do about lights. Just lenses or venture into working lights? TBC. In the mean time converting a Hornby Mk2F FO into a NR Brake Force runner with a PH Designs window blanking kit.

 

 

Edited by ruggedpeak
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Perhaps showing my lack of painting expertise, over Xmas I acquired a set of Scale Model Scenery drainage catch pit kits. One of those small fiddly jobs that I like to paint and assemble. Great little kit but how do you paint the pit covers without blocking the holes? The thinner the paint the more it flows into the holes. Thicker paint almost dry brush applied seemed to work best, immediately blowing through any holes to clear them. The holes are so tiny that even a needle is too thick to push through, eventually found some ultra thin wire to clear any remaining blockages. Used enamels so perhaps acrylics might be better next time? The concrete base was painted with enamel concrete colour.

 

IMGP3661.jpg.b43c005fa94a40580e636383307e44a2.jpg

 

Great little kit and good distraction making them up.

 

On my travels I noticed that the covers fade over time, I assume the covers are made of fibreglass. At Kelvedon Crossing, Essex, there are 2 colours suggesting installation at different times, so scope for new and faded versions. In this photo there is a faded blue version (mid-left), a newer bright blue (top right corner) and an older metal grid cover (bottom right corner). Around this section of the GEML there is a mix of covers, presumably following replacements when the crossing was reworked several years ago.

 

IMGP0597crop.jpg.d9d12d1d39e1fb52ac11366e463d93f1.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...