SED Freightman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Mike Storey's excellent breakdown of traffic in the Sittingbourne / Sheerness area certainly stired a few memories. In the early 1980's traffic was still predominantly conveyed in large numbers of low capacity vacuum braked wagons, but this quickly changed over a few years to air braked services conveying fewer but much higher capacity wagons. The figures below for Sheerness, clearly demonstrate why fewer freight services and marshalling yards were needed following transfer of traffic to air braked services, and also perhaps why so many small freight facilities closed, as the traffic formerly conveyed in several wagons a day could be accommodated in a handful each week, which then made providing a service uneconomic. Revenue earning traffic figures for both Sheerness Steel and Sheerness Docks are detailed below as due to the rail layout all inbound traffic was propelled from Sheerness on Sea Station into the Steelworks Reception Sdgs, whilst outbound traffic was formed into trains and collected by BR from the Westminster Straight Sdg. Sheerness Steel's own locomotives handled all shunting within the steelworks and tripped traffic to and from Sheerness Docks as required. Due to the need for inbound trains to reverse in Sheerness on Sea Station they were limited to 34SLU's so trains were sheduled to call at Queenborough Yard to detach / attach excess wagons which were then tripped to / from Sheerness. As Mike mentioned, in the early 1980's most scrap arrived at Sheerness in minfits, they were capable of unloading around 300 per week and it was frequently necessary to institute a BYRAG (traffic only to be forwarded by arrangement) restriction on inbound scrap to prevent Sheerness, Queenborough and Hoo Junction from getting clogged up. Forwarding locations that I recall despatching scrap in minfits to Sheerness Steel were :- Wandsworth Road Full Load Depot, Waltham Cross (Jones), Brentford (Parry Metals), West Ham (Cohens), Silvertown (Wards), Angerstein Wharf (Thames Metal), Ashford (BR Civil Engineers), Willesden (Ferrous Fragmentisers), Queenborough (Shipbreakers), Ridham Dock (Car Fragmentation), there were many others who sent the occasional wagonload. I also remember traffic from Cox & Danks but cannot recall the forwarding point (Thorney Mill perhaps). Once the switch to high capacity air braked wagons had been completed, most scrap traffic originated from Ridham Dock (Car Fragmentation) and Willesden (Ferrous Fragmentisers). 1981 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 9139 wagons (141,906t), Forwarded 75 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 75 wagons, Forwarded 5 wagons 1982 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 6792 wagons (170,582t), Forwarded 1584 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 10 wagons, Forwarded 0 wagons 1986 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 3288 wagons (218,471t), Forwarded 1077 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 133 wagons, Forwarded 0 wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Mike Storey's excellent breakdown of traffic in the Sittingbourne / Sheerness area certainly stired a few memories. In the early 1980's traffic was still predominantly conveyed in large numbers of low capacity vacuum braked wagons, but this quickly changed over a few years to air braked services conveying fewer but much higher capacity wagons. The figures below for Sheerness, clearly demonstrate why fewer freight services and marshalling yards were needed following transfer of traffic to air braked services, and also perhaps why so many small freight facilities closed, as the traffic formerly conveyed in several wagons a day could be accommodated in a handful each week, which then made providing a service uneconomic. Revenue earning traffic figures for both Sheerness Steel and Sheerness Docks are detailed below as due to the rail layout all inbound traffic was propelled from Sheerness on Sea Station into the Steelworks Reception Sdgs, whilst outbound traffic was formed into trains and collected by BR from the Westminster Straight Sdg. Sheerness Steel's own locomotives handled all shunting within the steelworks and tripped traffic to and from Sheerness Docks as required. Due to the need for inbound trains to reverse in Sheerness on Sea Station they were limited to 34SLU's so trains were sheduled to call at Queenborough Yard to detach / attach excess wagons which were then tripped to / from Sheerness. As Mike mentioned, in the early 1980's most scrap arrived at Sheerness in minfits, they were capable of unloading around 300 per week and it was frequently necessary to institute a BYRAG (traffic only to be forwarded by arrangement) restriction on inbound scrap to prevent Sheerness, Queenborough and Hoo Junction from getting clogged up. Forwarding locations that I recall despatching scrap in minfits to Sheerness Steel were :- Wandsworth Road Full Load Depot, Waltham Cross (Jones), Brentford (Parry Metals), West Ham (Cohens), Silvertown (Wards), Angerstein Wharf (Thames Metal), Ashford (BR Civil Engineers), Willesden (Ferrous Fragmentisers), Queenborough (Shipbreakers), Ridham Dock (Car Fragmentation), there were many others who sent the occasional wagonload. I also remember traffic from Cox & Danks but cannot recall the forwarding point (Thorney Mill perhaps). Once the switch to high capacity air braked wagons had been completed, most scrap traffic originated from Ridham Dock (Car Fragmentation) and Willesden (Ferrous Fragmentisers). 1981 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 9139 wagons (141,906t), Forwarded 75 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 75 wagons, Forwarded 5 wagons 1982 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 6792 wagons (170,582t), Forwarded 1584 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 10 wagons, Forwarded 0 wagons 1986 Sheerness Steelworks (Sheerness Steel) - Received 3288 wagons (218,471t), Forwarded 1077 wagons Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 133 wagons, Forwarded 0 wagons Thanks for this - very interesting as I had not realised the change in traffic levels in the few years I was there. But the numbers for Sheerness Docks are puzzling? I don't recall anything going into the docks loaded, only loaded coming out (timber mainly but a few other trial loads were run), so I wonder what these were? Have I mis-remembered that? (False recall is a subject being discussed at length on another thread!!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Thanks for this - very interesting as I had not realised the change in traffic levels in the few years I was there. But the numbers for Sheerness Docks are puzzling? I don't recall anything going into the docks loaded, only loaded coming out (timber mainly but a few other trial loads were run), so I wonder what these were? Have I mis-remembered that? (False recall is a subject being discussed at length on another thread!!). Unfortunately, having looked back through my files there is not a great deal I can add, the data having been copied from FABS (BR Freight Accounting and Business System) for other purposes, I only wish I had noted more of the information available at the time but its easy to be wise long after the event. As with any computer system the information from FABS would only have been as good as what was put in, so wrong coding or CTT (consigned through TOPS) inputs, if in use at this time, could account for some inaccuracies. Anyway, I can expand slightly on the original information as follows :- 1981 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 75 wagons (665t), Forwarded 5 wagons (78t) Of the 75 wagons received, 34 (266t) were shewn as commercial vehicles ex ER, total weight works out at under 9t per wagon I wonder if it was all automotive traffic. The forwarded traffic at an average of 15.6t per wagon was perhaps a one off trial loading. 1982 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 10 wagons (134t), Forwarded 0 wagons. The 10 wagons were shewn as Miscellaneous Government Traffic, and all arrived in Period 3 1982 (June ish), presumably as a single movement. 1986 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 133 wagons (2,370t), Forwarded 0 wagons. The tonnage averages out at 17.8t per wagon, probably to heavy for automotive traffic, but perhaps more government traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Unfortunately, having looked back through my files there is not a great deal I can add, the data having been copied from FABS (BR Freight Accounting and Business System) for other purposes, I only wish I had noted more of the information available at the time but its easy to be wise long after the event. As with any computer system the information from FABS would only have been as good as what was put in, so wrong coding or CTT (consigned through TOPS) inputs, if in use at this time, could account for some inaccuracies. Anyway, I can expand slightly on the original information as follows :- 1981 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 75 wagons (665t), Forwarded 5 wagons (78t) Of the 75 wagons received, 34 (266t) were shewn as commercial vehicles ex ER, total weight works out at under 9t per wagon I wonder if it was all automotive traffic. The forwarded traffic at an average of 15.6t per wagon was perhaps a one off trial loading. 1982 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 10 wagons (134t), Forwarded 0 wagons. The 10 wagons were shewn as Miscellaneous Government Traffic, and all arrived in Period 3 1982 (June ish), presumably as a single movement. 1986 Sheerness Docks (Medway Ports Authority) - Received 133 wagons (2,370t), Forwarded 0 wagons. The tonnage averages out at 17.8t per wagon, probably to heavy for automotive traffic, but perhaps more government traffic. Could that 1981 traffic be the flow of new tractors from Doncaster to Sheerness? David Larkin's published several photos of SAA wagons, each carrying two tractors, on this flow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Could that 1981 traffic be the flow of new tractors from Doncaster to Sheerness? David Larkin's published several photos of SAA wagons, each carrying two tractors, on this flow. Yes, I believe you are absolutely correct. I have a very vague memory of tractors ex Doncaster but could not remember when or where they went. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Hi ess1uk, Sorry I totally missed your question .... Yes we've collated quite a bit more information over the past few months, sorry for the lack of updates. Hectic life and work is to blame! It is something we're still working on and collating together information from various sources. I'll get the document update asap and get the latest version posted. If anyone else has extra info to add, please do post it! Rich Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Memories from the Hull area in the mid 80s is a Freight from York arriving conveying VTG ferrywagons and the Polybulk bogied grain hoppers. This was often hauled by a pair of 20's though I did see a 25 on it once. There was a speedlink shed built along side the freightliner terminal. Here I have seen transfesa ferry vans and once several wagon loads of lorry chassis. Paul Edited February 4, 2018 by birdseyecircus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The May 1982 list of Speedlink services shows:- 6D67 04.30 York Dringhouses - Hull (06.30), (calling Goole arr 05.32) 8D21 04.32 Doncaster - Hull (07.01) (calling Stainforth 04.52) 6S92 15.11 Hull - Aberdeen, calls Goole 15.49 - 16.38 and York 18.22 - 19.02 etc cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim76 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 25/01/2018 at 02:50, w124bob said: The Chadderton goods link earlier mentions Ordsall lane serverd by 6T85, for many years the siding led to a scrap yard, Duncan Transrail built a warehouse facility on the site which received among other things Guinness from Park Royal, after leaving Ordsall lane to gain access to Trafford Park the tripper used the almost abandoned route from Fairfield round through Chorlton, Throstles Nest junc into Trafford Park. The last revenue traffic over the route was a special from Pedigree at Melton Mowbray to a brand new warehouse in the Park I'm pretty sure I worked the one and only train to go in. The Guinness traffic pattern changed around the late 80's, Duncan Transrail housed a number of industrial shunters just visible from Liverpool/North Wales trains. Hi w124bob, I was wondering what wagons the special flow from Pedigree at Melton Mowbray to Trafford Park you mentioned was and what hauled it and was this via the Fallowfield line? Cheers, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Jim76 said: Hi w124bob, I was wondering what wagons the special flow from Pedigree at Melton Mowbray to Trafford Park you mentioned was and what hauled it and was this via the Fallowfield line? Cheers, Jim The wagons were I think bogie VTG vans(very hazy memory) the loco was a 47 . Yes It was via the Fallowfield line in the final week before closure. There was also a Trafford Park to Holyhead freightliner working booked over the Fallowfield line then at Ashburys turn right past what is now City's ground and down Platting bank through Victoria . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim76 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, w124bob said: The wagons were I think bogie VTG vans(very hazy memory) the loco was a 47 . Yes It was via the Fallowfield line in the final week before closure. There was also a Trafford Park to Holyhead freightliner working booked over the Fallowfield line then at Ashburys turn right past what is now City's ground and down Platting bank through Victoria . Great thanks - any further info about any traffic on the line would be much appreciated. Sadly never saw anything run on it back in the day. Cheers, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) @Jim76 Over the years The Fallowfield Loop had many different freight flows but all were based on the Trafford Park area, there were no through flows that I can remember. Freightliner trains to/from Holyhead. (40/47) Feightliner trains to/from the Northeast (double headed 37) Steel from Irlam steel works (Peaks) Trip workings between TP Dewsnap and Ashburys (24/25/37/40/47) Fallowfield Goods yard was used for London Brick service, don't know much about this other than I can remember seeing a class 40 in the station headshunt when I was very young. light engine movements Diversionary route for Liverpool services via Warrington Central - most famously for me as the last ever trains I saw on the line during the Piccadilly remodelling in the early 1990s after which the line closed. Whilst the East Didsbury line saw new life as a Metrolink line, the Fallowfield Loop had no such reprieve as it would never compete with the buses to Manchester as it went east to west first. It's now a cycle path and manages to keep itself in the news due to the louts that sometimes prowl it. The cuttings from Gorton and Fairfield were infilled, the trackbed at Fallowfield is built over and what else remains is landscaped. it would have made a nice route for TPE services coming in via Guide Bridge to get to Piccadilly and then the Airport with neeeding to cross the Piccadilly throat, but we have the expensive but wonderful under utilised curve now instead. Edited June 30, 2019 by woodenhead 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 The only other bit of completely useless info I know is that Wilbraham Road station was renamed Chorltonville for a 1964 jazz weekend , Sister Rosetta Tharp sank "Didn't it Rain", it did. Other lengends playing were Muddy Waters and Sonny Boy Williamson, the clips on youtube of Rosetta Tharpe. Not forgetting that other legend of the area, Chorlton and the Wheelies! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim76 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 30/06/2019 at 20:48, woodenhead said: @Jim76 Over the years The Fallowfield Loop had many different freight flows but all were based on the Trafford Park area, there were no through flows that I can remember. Freightliner trains to/from Holyhead. (40/47) Feightliner trains to/from the Northeast (double headed 37) Steel from Irlam steel works (Peaks) Trip workings between TP Dewsnap and Ashburys (24/25/37/40/47) Fallowfield Goods yard was used for London Brick service, don't know much about this other than I can remember seeing a class 40 in the station headshunt when I was very young. light engine movements Diversionary route for Liverpool services via Warrington Central - most famously for me as the last ever trains I saw on the line during the Piccadilly remodelling in the early 1990s after which the line closed. Whilst the East Didsbury line saw new life as a Metrolink line, the Fallowfield Loop had no such reprieve as it would never compete with the buses to Manchester as it went east to west first. It's now a cycle path and manages to keep itself in the news due to the louts that sometimes prowl it. The cuttings from Gorton and Fairfield were infilled, the trackbed at Fallowfield is built over and what else remains is landscaped. it would have made a nice route for TPE services coming in via Guide Bridge to get to Piccadilly and then the Airport with neeeding to cross the Piccadilly throat, but we have the expensive but wonderful under utilised curve now instead. Thanks - that’s great. Also Cl37 hauled Haverton Hill to Glazebrook tanks as has been mentioned previously. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 36 minutes ago, Jim76 said: Thanks - that’s great. Also Cl37 hauled Haverton Hill to Glazebrook tanks as has been mentioned previously. Jim Now you mention it I do remember a tanks train, I think it was a morning service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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