ISW Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, young37215 said: Cleaning of coach wheels continues. It is a thankless task compounded by the fact that I never paid enough attention to this in the past which means the condition of several wheels sets are thick with rubbish that requires clearing with a blade. So far I have gone through about 50 cotton buds and half a dozen rags which have all been consigned to the bin in a filthy state and I am only half way through the fleet. Rob, If it's really bad I tend to use a 'dremel' with a nylon wire brush attachment. That gets the bulk off quite quickly. Then a quick wipe with IPA on a cotton bud. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 14, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2021 21 hours ago, ISW said: If it's really bad I tend to use a 'dremel' with a nylon wire brush attachment. An excellent idea, I have a cheap and cheerful multi tool to which I attached a fine wire brush attachment. This made short work of the crud and meant that by the end of yesterday I had cleaned all coach wheels and remarshalled the rakes. I have been working on the 1985 WTT which I intend running next; whilst the number of services does not change much there are some notable changes. First class was withdrawn and Glasgow trains all terminated at Fort William. These will remain 4 coaches with a further two rakes of 3 coaches providing Fort William to Mallaig services. The sleeper service became air conditioned Mk 3 sleeping cars and Mk2 D/E coaches with an ETHEL supplying the ETH. 27041 had a brief outing with the return of an observation salon seen arriving at Crianlarich from Oban. This will be the last train for a while because my new ESU Cab Control system arrived yesterday to replace my Guagemaster Prodigy. Having disconnected the Prodigy my initial efforts to get the Cab Control connected and working hit an obstacle meaning I am without power at present. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 15, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2021 A frustrating day attempting to get the Cab Control system to work eventually ended in failure. For some as yet unidentifiable reason the CC will not apply power to the track despite everything appearing to work as it should. All most irritating and disappointing, I was so optimistic that CC would be a step forward. Hopefully I can get some answers from ESU as to what I am doing wrong but for now it is back to the Prodigy. In the end having re-attached the Prodigy I commenced running the 1985 WTT for the first time. Only by running the timetable do I find anomalies that mean the WTT does'nt work on WHL4 such as trains that cross at Glen Douglas. I do'nt have a Glen Douglas which means one of the trains has to run late so that it crosses at Garelochead or Arrochar. Not a big deal but one that you only learn through running. 37026 with 1S07, the overnight sleeper from Euston is the first movement of the working day and is seen at Garelochead. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallaig1983 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Sorry to hear you’re having a frustrating time with the new control Rob. I noticed a very brief clip popped up on YouTube. Hopefully ESU can give you the answer and it’s only something minor. more great pics again this morning though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 16, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2021 After a day spent trying to work out what was causing the Cab Control system to short, a fellow RMWebber advised of a known issue in the US which others had solved by increasing the variable track voltage output. In a matter of seconds this solved the problem and I was able to move a loco up and down a piece of test track. Hopefully today I will get the CC running WHL4. The second train movement of the day for the 1985 WTT is the first Mallaig departure 2Y52, the 0650 to Fort William seen with 37051 and its load of 3 coaches leaving Mallaig. The crooked lamp post is determined not to stand straight, it has been glued several times but still manages to break free! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted January 16, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 07/01/2021 at 10:43, mallaig1983 said: Noted on DTV's film 'Class 37 Tribute vol1" there is a BDA sat in the siding at Mallaig station. Andy Hope that you don't mind Rob but just a quick note regarding the above mentioned DVD ....there are two sets of DVDs with this working title out there and whilst they are both good the DVT version is the one with the excellent footage taken in the 1980's BR blue era, whereas the Globe Video title is set in the late 1990's / 2000's 'multicoloured' era but does at least have some WHL footage .....by the time I get DVT's vol.2 I will have spent £50 this past week learning this lesson, I should have read Andy's post more thoroughly first time around !! Regards, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bell Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Glad you have solved your power problems. That shunting sequence you described at Mallaig would make a great wee video sequence Cheers David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallaig1983 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Agree with David above. Hope you are now able to progress with the new control system. Would be interested to hear a little more about it when you’re up and running. Yes that Mallaig movement would make a great video if you ever get the time and inclination andy 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 17, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2021 Video is a something I want to do more of but I am constrained by the lockdown because my experience is that videoing works best with two people. A driver and a seperate video person create the best outcomes, where I have tried driving with one hand and videoing with the other has not worked well. There are a number of clips from the DTV Class 37 Tribute videos that I want to recreate, most notably 37027 departing Crianlarich where the loco clearly has Legoman's drive lock and west highland thrash sound file fitted! At least I managed to get the Cab Control to run trains and I got a quarter of the way through a day of the 1985 WTT. I am on a steep learning curve and making frequent mistakes having got so used to my old Prodigy which had become second nature. The Cab Control has a few ideosyncracies but overall I am pleased with what it offers and feel confident that I will get competent with it over time. I will do piece on CC once I have got a little better knowledge and understanding of it. 37026 continued its journey north with 1S07 passing through Crianlarich. 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, young37215 said: Video is a something I want to do more of but I am constrained by the lockdown because my experience is that videoing works best with two people. A driver and a seperate video person create the best outcomes, where I have tried driving with one hand and videoing with the other has not worked well. Rob, I guess video making is easier for one person if the layout is a roundy-roundy. No chance of accidents / derailments. Maybe try making a video where the camera is static for each shot? Then you can 'stitch' each shot together to make up the whole video. No exactly professional, but we all have to start somewhere. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted January 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2021 8 hours ago, young37215 said: There are a number of clips from the DTV Class 37 Tribute videos that I want to recreate, most notably 37027 departing Crianlarich where the loco clearly has Legoman's drive lock and west highland thrash sound file fitted! Do they say what speaker it was fitted with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallaig1983 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 My guess was the EM2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 18, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) One of the most notable changes that arises from the change to Cab Control from Prodigy is the increased sensitivity to shorts. Fortunately I don't get too many and those more knowledgeable than me advise that increased sensitivty to shorts is an advance in the technology and should, in general, be a good thing as it provides greater protection for DCC chips. These cause CC track power to cut out and requires the power to be turned on again to recommence running. Turning power on or off is a simple button press but the systems sensitivity is such that with my 20 locos situated at various points around the layout, CC usually determines that there is still a short and refuses to restart power. I don't have a definitive answer but am guessing that CC determines shorts by voltage drop and the power draw of the initial start up exceeds the short parameters built into CC. Only by physically reducing the number of locos on the layout to 12 or 13 does CC allow track power to be restored. Once restarted there are no issues with having all locos on track again but having to lift several locos off and back on to the track is a pain in the rear. The solution appears to be the division of the layout in to several, independent power sections which are switched on in stages although the issue and solution remain work in progress for now. 37011 follows the sleeper north with 7Y31 0510 Mossend to Mallaig Junction Yard. Edited January 18, 2021 by young37215 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted January 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) Morning Rob (and all other thread followers,) Any idea as to what might be underneath the tarpaulins in the first 3 open wagons heading North ? I've noticed these in photographs from the 70's and 80's in both Northbound and Southbound trains, all being very regular in shape (ie boxlike) and assumed that the Southbound items may be whisky from Fort William (with hindsight not particularly theft proof !), although I think that I've also seen them in trains from Corpach. I can imagine odd machinery parts travelling Northwards and maybe some general goods but this type of square covered load does seem to have been a very regular flow. Purely a question of interest rather than one that effects any modelling outcomes. Regards, Ian. Edited January 18, 2021 by 03060 Extra info added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, young37215 said: Once restarted there are no issues with having all locos on track again but having to lift several locos off and back on to the track is a pain in the rear. The solution appears to be the division of the layout in to several, independent power sections which are switched on in stages although the issue and solution remain work in progress for now. Rob, I have been using an NCE PowerCab (with built in short circuit detection - SCD) without problem. Then I installed a MERG Kit #57 SCD and that kept detecting shorts as a loco traversed an electrofrog point. It was clearly more sensitive. The MERG SCD has an adjustable SCD tripping setting (in milliseconds), and adjusting it to it's lowest 6ms setting fixed the issue. I'm guessing your Cab Control is having a similar problem. Can you adjust the SCD sensitivity in the Cab Control? As for separate Power Districts, that's exactly what I did, splitting the layout into 8 Districts each with a MERG SCD. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 hours ago, young37215 said: The solution appears to be the division of the layout in to several, independent power sections which are switched on in stages Rob, If you do go down the separate Power Districts route, each with its own SCD, just make sure the SCD can react faster than your Cab Control, or else you'll achieve nothing. From what you've said so far, it looks like the Cab Control is pretty quick at detecting short circuits. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dougjuk Posted January 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi Rob, I too was an NCE power cab user with some simple short protection done with a couple of circuit boards (PSX1's) I had a couple of power districts and it worked vey well. The I bought the DR5000 and my experience was the same as your, I had to remove the PSX's because the control was quicker and very sensitive. I could have dealt with it by altering its sensitivity but in the end I went for a slightly more expensive solution. I bought a DR5033 booster, I made that the track power supply and set it to try and reset the power itself rather than cut dead on a short. I then used the power from the DR5000 for all the accessories (point motors and signals etc). So a short does not kill the points and if I remove the thing that caused the short power is back. It works just fine now but it took me a little while to settle it in. The older system was much slower with shorts. The new system is much improved however and it was worth the pain to get there. regards Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dougjuk Posted January 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, ISW said: Rob, If you do go down the separate Power Districts route, each with its own SCD, just make sure the SCD can react faster than your Cab Control, or else you'll achieve nothing. From what you've said so far, it looks like the Cab Control is pretty quick at detecting short circuits. Ian Completely agree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 19, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2021 Yesterday Cab Control performed faultlessly for about 2 hours. Whenever I had need to restart track power, CC did so instantly with the need to remove any locos. Strange but pleasing, I wonder if CC has some form of smart capability that enables it to learn about the layout on which it is working? I managed to get to about halfway through the days operations of the 1985 WTT. When run in practice the operations are noticeably different to 1981 which is good news because it creates a different set of challenges to the Operator. I am grateful to Ian and Doug for their counsel. As far as I can tell my issue is not really one of excessive shorts, fortunately these are relatively few and invariably due to operator error with incorrectly set points or derailments. Rather it is one of restarting track power where, in some circumstances, CC refuses to restart because it is sensing a non existent short. The manual is silent on what CC uses to determine a short and I am not yet registered on the ESU User forum to ask the question. I am guessing at voltage drop which happens when a short occurs. It also arises and spikes on start up as the DCC chips all grab power to wake themselves up which is why splitting the layout into separate districts with one section capable of being switched off is a potential solution. By switching off 50% of the layout so that it isolates half of the loco fleet would reduce the power spike. Switch on 5 seconds later and the power spike is effectively halved. Will this work? I have no idea until I try and until I know what CC is using to determine shorts, I am not minded to undertake the work involved. 37022 headed the first southbound train 1T18, 0840 Fort William to Glasgow seen at Crianlarich 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 18/01/2021 at 08:53, 03060 said: Any idea as to what might be underneath the tarpaulins in the first 3 open wagons heading North ? I've noticed these in photographs from the 70's and 80's in both Northbound and Southbound trains, all being very regular in shape (ie boxlike) and assumed that the Southbound items may be whisky from Fort William (with hindsight not particularly theft proof !), although I think that I've also seen them in trains from Corpach. I can imagine odd machinery parts travelling Northwards and maybe some general goods but this type of square covered load does seem to have been a very regular flow. I think the simple answer will be wood and wood pulp. There were several major freight flows on the WHL during the early 80's but, to the best of my knowledge, no whisky! Northbound trains primarily carried: wood and wood pulp for the paper mill at Corpach China clay for the paper mill Oil for the storage terminals at Oban, Connell Ferry, Fort William and Mallaig Bulk alumina for the aluminum smelter at Fort William Coal for the distribution centres at Oban, Crianlarich and Fort William Southbound trains comprised: finished paper and paper product from Corpach Ingots from the smelter at Fort William Timber from numerous locations along the line As Ian highlights, most of the freight carried in open wagons was covered in tarpaulin and I suspect that the wood and wood pulp make up the bulk of this. I have a variety of loads to imitate these but am not totally satisfied with them and have a plan to produce some of my own on the to do list. There are a couple of old threads on the subject of WHL freight but none in my view are any more definitive than the list above. Loads were relatively light because of the steeply graded line, from memory a single class 37 was restricted to a maximum trailing load of 400 tons which translated to less than 20 wagons. Even then there are plenty of pictures around showing short freights of only a few wagons. I can manage consists of up to 10 wagons on WHL 4, 37108 is seen below at Garelochead with a typical TTA/OCA/OBA and OTA mix of wagons heading for Oban with the 1330 from Mossend. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted January 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) Thanks Rob, I had always assumed that the wood pulp transferred up to Corpach was in a loose form in OBA type wagons and then just sheeted over but on looking again at Tom Noble's Mallaig Extension book the photo of 20 114 ambling along to Corpach mill with 3x PRAs, 2x OBAs and an OCA the loads in the open wagons have a definite rectangular form to them and suggest that the pulp is being carried in cages or large crates, particularly in the twin boxlike shapes in the first OBA. To further support this comments and photos in Freight Only Vol.3 refer to wood pulp being carried in VDA/VBA type vans from Methill Docks (and a one off OEA conversion) which can only have been loaded in some form of fork liftable crate. I'd again always assumed (wrongly) that vans on the WHL in the 1980's were purely empty going Northbound and carrying paper when going Southbound. It's a shame that there isn't a Telerail type DVD available for the Corpach plant in the early 1980's similar to the one done in the 1990's. Oh, well, keeps us guessing ....and all hypothetical when it comes to copying in model form. Regards, Ian. Edited January 20, 2021 by 03060 Correction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwphillips Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I'm beginning to model WHL in N gauge with a station largely based on Bridge of Orchy. I've ordered the RM from 2005 which has Ian Futers article on the station, but it's yet to arrive. Having looked at plenty of images on Ernies archive on Flickr I'm struggling to make out the building material of the platform sides. Extremely dirty and almost impossible to tell by the mid 80s. Anyone able to comment? Keep up the great work Rob. This is a real masterpiece 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2021 Several hours of running yesterday saw me get to the end of the day for the 1985 WTT. Although the number of trains is much the same as 1981, the changes make a real difference to how things work and where trains pass. For example in 1981 the Oban trains all cross at Arrochar, by 1985 its 2 Arrochar and 1 Crianlarich. 2 of the southbound freights lay over in stations to pass 2 trains travelling north. All in all concentrating on a combination of the new controller and the change in operations meant I was knackered last night; at least I slept well. 37081 is seen at Fort William at the head of 1T34 1415 to Glasgow 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 37 178 with 7D17, 1020 Corpach to Mossend through Crianlarich. 37178 is on the lengthy list of locos I want to weather, I renumbered it from 37284 and drilled out the bolier port to model the steam heat loco that arrived in Scotland from South Wales in 1982. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold young37215 Posted January 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2021 On 20/01/2021 at 16:32, jwphillips said: I'm beginning to model WHL in N gauge with a station largely based on Bridge of Orchy. I've ordered the RM from 2005 which has Ian Futers article on the station, but it's yet to arrive. Having looked at plenty of images on Ernies archive on Flickr I'm struggling to make out the building material of the platform sides. Extremely dirty and almost impossible to tell by the mid 80s. Anyone able to comment? Search Flickr with 'Bridge of Orchy station' there are a few pictures showing the platform face 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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