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young37215
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On 19/06/2021 at 16:24, young37215 said:

Ballasting underway and cable trunking being installed at Ardlui.

Rob,

 

Who is the supplier of your cable troughing? Looks quite good.

 

Ian

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11 hours ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

Who is the supplier of your cable troughing? Looks quite good.

 

Ian

 

Bog standard Wills cable concrete trunking which is easy to lay and gets secured in place when the ballast is glued. I add trunking and point rodding because there are relatively few man made features at most of the stations. The big feature I want to add but have yet to find an acceptable solution are platform lights. The lights appear to be generic at most of the WHL stations and I hope to persuade one of the small manufacturers to do a custom run of 10 or so for me. Platform lights and trees will help create a sense of height at Ardlui which I hope will feel enclosed by the surrounding mountains and Loch Lomond by the time I am finished. 

 

The station platform has been planted and glued in place. There is still plenty of detailing required on the platform but with it installed, next I want to start cutting and gluing the polystyrene to create the surrounding mountainside. I also need to cut out a piece of baseboard at the front to create a lower level where the road and station entrance sit.

 

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26 minutes ago, young37215 said:

Bog standard Wills cable concrete trunking which is easy to lay and gets secured in place when the ballast is glued.

Rob,

 

Thanks for the info. I'd recently bought some cable troughing from Ten Commandments and Scale Model Scenery for testing & comparison purposes, so to have a third 'option' is nice to have.

 

Ian

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The running line at Ardlui is protected from the small yard by a catch point. This is an old point rather than the traditional catch point which I am attempting to replicate. I was nervous about taking a razor saw to the point but it all went rather easily and allowed the remaining trunking to be ballasted into place. I also added some signs and other detail to the platform. 

 

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Like many WHL stations, Ardlui sits on a shelf cut into the mountainside rising above Loch Lomond. Below the station is the A82 which provides access to the station via an underpass. I want to replicate a small part of this which means I need to cut out part of the flat baseboard and create a lower level for the road. I am not sure that I am happy with the depth of the lower level yet but as a first step I have cut out a piece of baseboard and created a lower level that sits about 40mm below the running line.

 

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An attempted running day was fraught with operating issues which rather spoilt things. 
 

The biggest problem was at the Fort William station throat where I recently ballasted the 750mm piece of track between the station and fiddle yard. Annoyingly I created a slope on the code 75 to code 100 transition rail which causes wheels to lift and short out on the point immediately after the transition rail. The only solution was to rip the track up and relay it. 


Despite the frustrations we still managed to get further through a day’s operations using the 1983 WTT.

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15 hours ago, young37215 said:

The biggest problem was at the Fort William station throat where I recently ballasted the 750mm piece of track between the station and fiddle yard. Annoyingly I created a slope on the code 75 to code 100 transition rail which causes wheels to lift and short out on the point immediately after the transition rail. The only solution was to rip the track up and relay it. 

Rob,

 

The problem I find with such 'vertical discrepancies' is that Kadee couplings can sometimes uncouple themselves. Really annoying, especially when it happens on a gradient. Gravity tends to win, and I need to stop both the locomotive and the opposite running portion of the rake in quick order.

 

Ian

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1 hour ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

The problem I find with such 'vertical discrepancies' is that Kadee couplings can sometimes uncouple themselves. Really annoying, especially when it happens on a gradient. Gravity tends to win, and I need to stop both the locomotive and the opposite running portion of the rake in quick order.

 

Ian

I’ve found a similar issue. It’s very rare but occasionally when my train goes ‘off scene’ after climbing the gradient out of Mallaig I can lose the Observation saloon. This is due to the slight difference in the height of the NEM socket on the Saloon where the Kadee on the coach in front lifts out of the Kadee on the saloon. A little bit of fettling of the coupler on the saloon should fix this I hope. Failing that I will have to get rid of the NEM socket and mount the Kadee directly to the bogie or chassis. I absolutely love the Kadee couplings but inconsistent NEM heights are an issue. I must add though that this is the only vehicle Ive had issues with so far. 

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I recently acquired a second hand rake of Bachmann grain wagons in the weathered aluminium livery as an intended replacement for my old Lima grain wagon rake. Although the Lima wagons have done me proud since I respayed them over 30 years ago and re-wheeled them with Hornby replacements when I started using code 75 track about 5 years ago, the fact is the newer Bachmann model is visually superior. I was hoping to recover some of my outlay be selling the Lima wagons on Ebay.

 

Yesterday on their first outing I found that the Bachmann wagons all derailed on the 3rd radius reverse curve approaching Crianlarich. On investigation I found that the tension lock coupling is fixed in place and has very little range of movement which is why they de-rail. The fixed coupling is out of keeping with most modern wagon models being fixed in place with a screw and 2 lugs. I think if I remove the lugs the coupling should be able to pivot on the screw but whether this will resolve the derailment problem I dont know. The question is whether I am brave enough to start hacking my new wagons around in this manner. The issue is frustrating and irritating, the old Lima wagons dont have this issue although the couplings are rather large and until I find an acceptable solution with the Bachmann's I shall be keeping the Lima wagons.

 

Bachmann converted grain wagon

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Fixed tension lock coupling arrangement

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Bachmann and Lima side by side, the Lima wagon is too tall and less detailed. 

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Lima couplings are secured on a single point which has a small range of movement meaning the couplings can pivot  

1408411495_240621(12).JPG.3be46084711c263bdcceb776133f6afc.JPG

 

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4 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

Bachmann and Lima side by side, the Lima wagon is too tall and less detailed. 

1568553170_240621(11).JPG.ffdf0af2fcb1725d3aab589dcc534b3f.JPG

 

 

 

Glad that you've posted this, Rob, as I was going to ask you how you were going about this upgrade project which you mentioned a couple of weeks ago on another thread.

 

Looking at the two makes of wagons side by side and studying photos taken on the WHL and in one or two wagon books then a possible solution which may solve your running issues and give a more accurrate model of the vehicles used on the WHL would be to mount the Bachmann bodies onto the Lima chassis, although this wouldn't help recover the finances.

 

The reason I say this is that in all of the photos that I've seen of the ex-grain wagons on the WHL they all have the Pedastal suspension units as opposed to the leaf spring type but also they all have the 8 ribbed body (Bachmann) instead of the 5 ribbed (Lima) type. I've read that they were coded PAF.

 

The Lima wagon as it is looks a good representation of the Grainflow liveried wagons which did find their way onto the WHL in the late '80s. The Bachmann one is a good model of a PAV.  What I haven't found out yet is when the suspension units were changed, I need to have a look at Paul Bartlett's site.

 

The reason that I am 'so' interested is that I have a rake of the Peco N gauge wagons which are similar to the Bachmann version and have been looking for a source of suitable replacement  Pedastal suspension chassis, I can then use the old leaf spring chassis for some scratchbuilt PRAs or maybe have a crack at the PAB ex-limestone hoppers that were also used on the Alumina traffic, if you could find a 3D printed body in 00 this may be an option for you ? However I will be more than happy if someone can prove me wrong and show the leaf spring versions of the PAFs on the WHL as it will save me some work ! :mocking_mini:

 

Regards,

Ian.

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4 hours ago, young37215 said:

Yesterday on their first outing I found that the Bachmann wagons all derailed on the 3rd radius reverse curve approaching Crianlarich. On investigation I found that the tension lock coupling is fixed in place and has very little range of movement which is why they de-rail. The fixed coupling is out of keeping with most modern wagon models being fixed in place with a screw and 2 lugs. I think if I remove the lugs the coupling should be able to pivot on the screw but whether this will resolve the derailment problem I dont know. The question is whether I am brave enough to start hacking my new wagons around in this manner. The issue is frustrating and irritating, the old Lima wagons dont have this issue although the couplings are rather large and until I find an acceptable solution with the Bachmann's I shall be keeping the Lima wagons.

 

Fixed tension lock coupling arrangement

1869408202_240621(6).JPG.2c42bd65aeb475804506ce7267ba209e.JPG

Rob,

 

You may be able to get away with simply enlarging the 2 side holes in the tension lock, thus allowing it to pivot a bit but limited by the lugs. Such a change would be just about reversible. At least it does not change the main body of the wagon.

 

Ian

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, 03060 said:

 

Glad that you've posted this, Rob, as I was going to ask you how you were going about this upgrade project which you mentioned a couple of weeks ago on another thread.

 

Looking at the two makes of wagons side by side and studying photos taken on the WHL and in one or two wagon books then a possible solution which may solve your running issues and give a more accurrate model of the vehicles used on the WHL would be to mount the Bachmann bodies onto the Lima chassis, although this wouldn't help recover the finances.

 

The reason I say this is that in all of the photos that I've seen of the ex-grain wagons on the WHL they all have the Pedastal suspension units as opposed to the leaf spring type but also they all have the 8 ribbed body (Bachmann) instead of the 5 ribbed (Lima) type. I've read that they were coded PAF.

 

The Lima wagon as it is looks a good representation of the Grainflow liveried wagons which did find their way onto the WHL in the late '80s. The Bachmann one is a good model of a PAV.  What I haven't found out yet is when the suspension units were changed, I need to have a look at Paul Bartlett's site.

 

The reason that I am 'so' interested is that I have a rake of the Peco N gauge wagons which are similar to the Bachmann version and have been looking for a source of suitable replacement  Pedastal suspension chassis, I can then use the old leaf spring chassis for some scratchbuilt PRAs or maybe have a crack at the PAB ex-limestone hoppers that were also used on the Alumina traffic, if you could find a 3D printed body in 00 this may be an option for you ? However I will be more than happy if someone can prove me wrong and show the leaf spring versions of the PAFs on the WHL as it will save me some work ! :mocking_mini:

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

I had a read of the Larkin article on aluminium which is of limited use to me as it misses out on my time window and the use of grain wagons.  I have added details of my continued investigations/research on the Alcan traffic thread. In my search I have only found 1 PAV/F with UIC suspension converted for alumina use on Paul Bartlett's website. Of course there may be more but, like 03060, the bulk of pictures I have seen show WHL alumina consists exclusively made up of wagons with pedestal suspension. 

 

The suggestion regarding my swapping bodies and chassis is a logical one but, even in the event it was doable, does not work for me as the old Lima chassis is rather cride by modern standards and the large couplings were one of the main drivers behind my change. I would like to have the correct chassis with pedestal suspension; is there a Bachmann wagon that could serve as a donor I wonder? I shall have a look, who knows this might be the solution to the coupling issue at the same time!

 

 

 

 

Edited by young37215
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Bachmann  Website shows 3 types of screw fitted couplings  On my old Trix Whisky wagons  I use  36025 small Coupling  on one end  and the old Mainline coupling on the other end

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On 25/06/2021 at 16:33, ISW said:

Rob,

 

You may be able to get away with simply enlarging the 2 side holes in the tension lock, thus allowing it to pivot a bit but limited by the lugs. Such a change would be just about reversible. At least it does not change the main body of the wagon.

 

Ian

 

A good idea, filing down the edge of the coupling would increase the width and allow wider pivoting.

 

19 hours ago, tonyg3 said:

Bachmann  Website shows 3 types of screw fitted couplings  On my old Trix Whisky wagons  I use  36025 small Coupling  on one end  and the old Mainline coupling on the other end

 

Looks an even better option, the Bachmann large coupling 36-009 is a possibiility. I need to find out what the dimensions are of these and which the existing couplings are. I had not considered swapping the coupling which would be the simplest way of resolving the issue although it would not address the suspension/chassis dilemna. That said I can live with the chassis if the wagons will run without derailing.  

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11 hours ago, young37215 said:

I had not considered swapping the coupling which would be the simplest way of resolving the issue although it would not address the suspension/chassis dilemna.

Rob,

 

Have you considered using the coupling from the Lima wagons? I have a 'bag' of those surplus to requirements (all my Lima wagons retrofitted with Kadees), and your welcome to them if they are suitable.

 

Ian

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

Have you considered using the coupling from the Lima wagons? I have a 'bag' of those surplus to requirements (all my Lima wagons retrofitted with Kadees), and your welcome to them if they are suitable.

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian

 

The large Lima couplings are one of the main reasons for my 'upgrade' to Bachmann's grain wagons as I find them obtrusive so thank you but no thank you to your kind offer. I am hopeful that the larger Bachmann 36-009 couplings will not be as big and lumpy as the Lima's. I want to find a local shop with them in stock so that I can see them in the flesh before buying the 2 sets I need to complete the job.    

 

Rob

 

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One other option with the couplings, Parkside used to do the NEM housing as a separate accessory (the one the you push the adapter up into rather than the one that you just slot the fishtail straight in. Sorry for the dreadful description, they presumably have a name but I'm not sure what it is!

 

With that you will have a bit of play within the coupling and be able to use smaller ones.

 

Link below - no connection to Kernow and others probably have them, just the first one that came up in Google.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/27251/PA34-Parkside-Dundas-Mounting-Blocks-for-Bachmann-36-027

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7 hours ago, SHerr said:

One other option with the couplings, Parkside used to do the NEM housing as a separate accessory (the one the you push the adapter up into rather than the one that you just slot the fishtail straight in. Sorry for the dreadful description, they presumably have a name but I'm not sure what it is!

 

With that you will have a bit of play within the coupling and be able to use smaller ones.

 

Link below - no connection to Kernow and others probably have them, just the first one that came up in Google.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/27251/PA34-Parkside-Dundas-Mounting-Blocks-for-Bachmann-36-027

Having posted this link I then noticed something else on Google, initially a range of NEM sockets to go on the Bachmann type fixed coupling holder. The link was to an eBay page then when clicking on the sellers other items there appears to be a fascinating range of NEM adapters including for Lima plug in pins. Search mattymay05 in sellers - looks like the answers to all your needs - I will certainly be ordering a number of different ones!

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10 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

Hi Ian

 

The large Lima couplings are one of the main reasons for my 'upgrade' to Bachmann's grain wagons as I find them obtrusive so thank you but no thank you to your kind offer. I am hopeful that the larger Bachmann 36-009 couplings will not be as big and lumpy as the Lima's. I want to find a local shop with them in stock so that I can see them in the flesh before buying the 2 sets I need to complete the job.    

 

Rob

 

Rob,

 

Initially I was sure I had a 'bag' of Bachmann 36-009s as I'm always taking them off wagons to be replaced by Kadees. However, a looks through my 'spares department' didn't throw anything up. I must have chucked them out, although I kept the little springs and screws as they can be useful. 

 

Ian

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Morning Rob and all,

 

I hope you don't mind if I drag us back a few months to when we were discussing where the ballast came from that is used on the WHL and IIRC somewhere in Ayrshire was the call, well just by further way of confirmation of this I've just been looking deeper into one of the photos in Key Publishing's Modelling BR Engineers Vol.1 taken at Crianlarich in 1977 of a Trout ballast hopper (p.35) and noticed that under the large H on the side is stencilled 'Empty to B.R. Sidings Irvine'

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

BTW - Vol.2 of this publication is imminent according to a recent publicity email from Hattons.

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43 minutes ago, 03060 said:

BTW - Vol.2 of this publication is imminent according to a recent publicity email from Hattons.


It is available on the Key website now.

It covers the replacement of the older wagons and so may not be of direct relevance to WH4 but is interesting nontheless.

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17 hours ago, SHerr said:

Having posted this link I then noticed something else on Google, initially a range of NEM sockets to go on the Bachmann type fixed coupling holder. The link was to an eBay page then when clicking on the sellers other items there appears to be a fascinating range of NEM adapters including for Lima plug in pins. Search mattymay05 in sellers - looks like the answers to all your needs - I will certainly be ordering a number of different ones!

 

I am aware that it is possible to replace the Lima couplings and install NEM styled ones although I have no experience of doing this. A friend gave me some of the NEM replacements to try a while back but I have not got around to fitting them. The Lima grain wagons have served me well and with a little work I am sure they can be further improved, Railtec do transfers that would add detail and the couplings can be upgraded as people have identified. There is no one specific reason for my change to the Bachmann grain wagons, it was a combination of factors that led me to the decision to upgrade. The more I am thinking about it, the more I coming to the conclusion that I will run 2 rakes, 1 Lima and 1 Bachmann which will enable the running of up and down trains passing on the WHL as per the 1984 WTT. I just have to figure out if I have the siding capacity to store another 8 wagons!

 

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4 hours ago, BoD said:


It is available on the Key website now.

It covers the replacement of the older wagons and so may not be of direct relevance to WH4 but is interesting nontheless.

 

I looked in my local WHS yesterday but they didn't have any, nor is it yet in stock at Hattons.

 

The last time I pre-ordered and paid from Key I don't believe that I ever received the item, the Wagonload bookazine, as I came across a copy in Smiths a couple of months later and didn't recognise the photos in it, particularly the WHL timber photos. If it was ever delivered it either quickly found its way into one of my many piles of books and is yet to be re-discovered ....or the wife filed it in the green bin to stop me spending any more money !! :mocking_mini:

 

I must point out that I've never had any other issues when ordering from Key Publishing and strongly suspect the issue was at my end, most of all because I'd forgotten that I'd even ordered it until I rechecked my statements ! :blush_mini:

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On 29/06/2021 at 07:03, 03060 said:

Morning Rob and all,

 

I hope you don't mind if I drag us back a few months to when we were discussing where the ballast came from that is used on the WHL and IIRC somewhere in Ayrshire was the call, well just by further way of confirmation of this I've just been looking deeper into one of the photos in Key Publishing's Modelling BR Engineers Vol.1 taken at Crianlarich in 1977 of a Trout ballast hopper (p.35) and noticed that under the large H on the side is stencilled 'Empty to B.R. Sidings Irvine'

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

BTW - Vol.2 of this publication is imminent according to a recent publicity email from Hattons.

 

Most interesting, I have the excellent bookazine but had not noticed the Trout at Crianlarich. This has cheered me up no end as I have a Trout in my rake of Heljan Dogfish and had always believed that ths was out of place on the WHL. Now I know better and can justify keeping the Trout. My order for engineers wagons vol 2 direct from Key was placed at the weekend; their recent spate of publications are all first class information and the reference material is very useful.

 

I dont think the reference to Irvine on the Trout sheds any more on the orgins of the WHL ballast, I suspect this was just the depot/base for the wagon. Several years ago ModelRail did an article on WHL ballast to coincide with the ModelRail Scotland. Try as I might, I cannot find the copy of the magazine which I am fairly sure included reference to a quarry where the pink/brown ballast came from. I shall keep looking for this in my pile of old magazines.


 

 

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There are photos of 3 individual Trout wagons taken at Crianlarich in 1977 on Paul Bartlett's excellent website and I've also seen photos of (probably) the same 3 vehicles together in Irishswissernie's collection, as all 3 have different livery variations they would make a nice rake.

 

PS- I've just googled 'Paul Bartlett Crianlarich' in images and it came back with another 1977 photo but of a Salmon with cranes fitted which may also be of interest to you.

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