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RandyWales

Darstaed Mk1 coaches for 7mm.

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Gentlemen,

 

Re coach height : I also measured two of the coaches under production, a B/G and a Maroon one. The B/G is 0.8 mm higher than the Maroon coach not only at the roof top but also at the buffers.

What I will do is make new springs for the C/W bogie that are 0.8 mm shorter so the B/G coaches are the same height as all the other coaches that have BR MK1 bogies.

Would it be possible for some one to take some measurements of the Heljan diesel locos and measure he height of the roof and height of the centre of the buffers taken from the top of the rail ? 

 

Cheers,

Andries

Hi Andries

It’s been quite some time since any comments have been posted on here ref the Mk1 coaches, in particular with regard to height above rail.

I’ve been regularly running my rake of 7 vehicles at a club layout and am completely delighted with their running qualities. They have been much admired by many folk, and really do reflect well on Darstaed.

 

However they ARE a little on the high side as has been been commented by others. I have 12 locos from JLTRT, Dapol and Heljan, and all are the same (correct) height. The coaches are higher than all the locos, so the height issue is not due to Heljan being too low in my view. You have previously mentioned that you’re looking at offering shorter springs on a complimentary basis to any folk who want to lower their vehicles, so I’m just enquiring as to progress with this modification? Lowering the vehicles will really finish off the rake nicely.

 

Look forward to hearing back.

 

Kind regards

Phil

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Hi Andries

It’s been quite some time since any comments have been posted on here ref the Mk1 coaches, in particular with regard to height above rail.

I’ve been regularly running my rake of 7 vehicles at a club layout and am completely delighted with their running qualities. They have been much admired by many folk, and really do reflect well on Darstaed.

However they ARE a little on the high side as has been been commented by others. I have 12 locos from JLTRT, Dapol and Heljan, and all are the same (correct) height. The coaches are higher than all the locos, so the height issue is not due to Heljan being too low in my view. You have previously mentioned that you’re looking at offering shorter springs on a complimentary basis to any folk who want to lower their vehicles, so I’m just enquiring as to progress with this modification? Lowering the vehicles will really finish off the rake nicely.

Look forward to hearing back.

Kind regards

Phil

Hello Andries

Happy New Year (although I know you have more New Year fireworks on Feb 5!).

 

Hopefully you saw my note directly above regarding the ride heights of the Mk1’s, so I’m just asking about any updates? Not urgent, but nice to know there’ll be a resolution this year.

 

Kind regards

Phil

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Also interested in the ride height correction.

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47 minutes ago, dmeaden said:

Do their Suburban coaches exhibit the same ride height issue?

 

From talking to a representative at Telford on Sunday I understand they are intended to be the correct height. 

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Have they not replied by the ride height issue? - I would have loved to buy some to go with Heljan diesels but if they are too high it is a non starter - if they could be lowered via the bogies that would possibly be a good start to increased sales....let hope they can communicate their ideas soon...

Edited by deltic17

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7 hours ago, deltic17 said:

Have they not replied by the ride height issue? - I would have loved to buy some to go with Heljan diesels but if they are too high it is a non starter - if they could be lowered via the bogies that would possibly be a good start to increased sales....let hope they can communicate their ideas soon...

 

Hi all,

 

Sorry, I have only just read the comments on this thread, as I have only been following the other Mk1 thread under "Traders" and then "Darstaed".

 

Re the ride height...

This is something I was made aware of when the coaches came to market.

 

Since then we have been working on a solution.

 

We have recently produced extra of the newly tooled bogies available on the Suburbans, which are fully to scale.

 

We thought this could bring the ride height down on the mainline Mk1s, but unfortunately they fowled the insides of the solebars on corners.

 

What we are currently doing is a re-run of many of the common coach types in the 5 main liveries we have so far produced.

 

Within this re-run the sole-bar will be made shallower, so that the bogies do not tap the inside when going round corners.

 

These coaches will still be a little too high, but only by 1.3mm.

 

They will also have corridor connections which move up and down (as well as side to side) so they will have no issues coupling to current Mk1 stock.

 

Why are they too high?

When these coaches were produced, there were a huge amount of features and detailing fitted between the top of the roof and top of the rails (PCB, capacitors, interior detailing, die-cast chassis etc.) which essentially resulted in a height error of 2mm.

 

It has certainly been a learning curve, and one we have implemented to the suburbans (and Thompson's when they follow) which are accurate all round, having gone back to the drawing board after the feedback received on the mainline Mk1s.

 

Of course, for some the ride height is fine and for others, it's not - which I completely respect.

 

Rest assured we are always reading your comments and will always strive to improve the models we release.

 

Once again, very sorry for not replying on this thread sooner - and I hope this clears up any uncertainty.

 

All the best,

Ellis.

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On 04/09/2019 at 18:38, Ellis Clark Trains said:

 

Hi all,

 

Sorry, I have only just read the comments on this thread, as I have only been following the other Mk1 thread under "Traders" and then "Darstaed".

 

Re the ride height...

This is something I was made aware of when the coaches came to market.

 

Since then we have been working on a solution.

 

We have recently produced extra of the newly tooled bogies available on the Suburbans, which are fully to scale.

 

We thought this could bring the ride height down on the mainline Mk1s, but unfortunately they fowled the insides of the solebars on corners.

 

What we are currently doing is a re-run of many of the common coach types in the 5 main liveries we have so far produced.

 

Within this re-run the sole-bar will be made shallower, so that the bogies do not tap the inside when going round corners.

 

These coaches will still be a little too high, but only by 1.3mm.

 

They will also have corridor connections which move up and down (as well as side to side) so they will have no issues coupling to current Mk1 stock.

 

Why are they too high?

When these coaches were produced, there were a huge amount of features and detailing fitted between the top of the roof and top of the rails (PCB, capacitors, interior detailing, die-cast chassis etc.) which essentially resulted in a height error of 2mm.

 

It has certainly been a learning curve, and one we have implemented to the suburbans (and Thompson's when they follow) which are accurate all round, having gone back to the drawing board after the feedback received on the mainline Mk1s.

 

Of course, for some the ride height is fine and for others, it's not - which I completely respect.

 

Rest assured we are always reading your comments and will always strive to improve the models we release.

 

Once again, very sorry for not replying on this thread sooner - and I hope this clears up any uncertainty.

 

All the best,

Ellis.

What a refreshing, open, honest, thoughtful and pragmatic reply.

 

Well done ECTs!

 

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Hi all,

 

Good news! The springs are now in stock for the CW bogies.

 

They lower the overall height of the coach by 2mm.

 

We can supply these springs free of charge for those who have already purchased the coaches, or we can fit them in house, again, free of charge.

 

If you would like some posting out, or to place an order with the new springs fitted, please feel free to email or call (01756 701451 or [email protected])

 

You can also place the order through the website with a note at checkout requesting these springs be fitted.

 

All the best,

Ellis.

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As the coaches in question have no relevance to my modelling era, I have no skin in this game, but I think the approach to addressing concerns is exemplary.  Would that all suppliers (of whatever product) were so proactive.

 

atb

Simon

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3 hours ago, Simond said:

As the coaches in question have no relevance to my modelling era, I have no skin in this game, but I think the approach to addressing concerns is exemplary.  Would that all suppliers (of whatever product) were so proactive.

 

atb

Simon

Almost similar situation, at this time and I couldn't agree more Simon, it's most refreshing, inspiring in fact.

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I have bought a buffet coach on common wealth bogies & i compared this coach beside a Heljan coach has anyone done this? & i was completely surprised to find The Darstead one  was quite a bit higher like about a scale 6in ! & they would stand out quite a bit if you mix the two ! in rake.

Darstead know about this & will supply replacement springs hen they become available , to lower the bogies slightly i have some doubt if this will work?I don't know how if the mk1 bogies are the same? a complete rake of Darsted  would probably look ok but the height difference will show up against locos & other stock say vans?

Will i make further purchases i think i will wait awhile to see what developes?

Another one to add to your list DJP.

Doug

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Friday Night is Railway Night

 

I took my 4 corridor coaches to a friends layout to give them a run. 

Turned on the lights and assembled them in the track. A Heljan 31 to start, then a Black Five. 

Everybody was impressed. I looked at the height against the 31 and have to lay on the track to spot the extra height. 

 

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D756A140-BE0B-4963-9F55-CF80CCB28D27.jpeg.c64888c1d307fefdd0358dd6416f9ce0.jpeg

 

DA5FCD0D-BC3C-4177-8734-3597D9555382.jpeg.0aab670b598f368e0c26beaaeb47c7f7.jpeg

 

5C7AF9CA-7F86-4AF7-9125-DE9004057565.jpeg.4b94e51c3deb58f017f3c1b2fdb2988b.jpeg

 

 

7E8A9886-F21F-4870-A084-2B143F6FC02B.jpeg.3ad69b70d9ac09eb851fa4b8a984942f.jpeg

 

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Hardly noticeable on the Black 5/Tender loco, and just a tad on the Class31. I suspect weathering the roofs/ends etc would help 'loose' any differences?

Edited by CME and Bottlewasher

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There's more of an issue if you mix them with other coach types, such as Maunsell or Bulleid, as was common on the Southern in steam days.

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On 05/10/2019 at 14:53, 2ManySpams said:

There's more of an issue if you mix them with other coach types, such as Maunsell or Bulleid, as was common on the Southern in steam days.

Yes I was pondering that too.

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I was looking at the Darstaedt Mk1s on a stand at Wincanton earliier.

 

The windows (WC and the others) on the sleepers are much smaller than on the other Mk1s. Is that right? Does not fit with my memories.

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My BG is just crying out for interior detail, & a decoder to control the lighting...& a Scale 7 conversion ... but I can't work out how it comes apart.

Some of the screws on the floor are hidden behind underfloor detail which does not look removable. The screws near the end come out but it looks like the floor is also glued. I don't want to bend it because I will struggle to get it straight again.

 

Has anyone taken one of these apart? If so, how?

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Send Ellis an email, he’s very helpful.

 

atb

Simon

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On 16/11/2019 at 14:36, Pete the Elaner said:

My BG is just crying out for interior detail, & a decoder to control the lighting...& a Scale 7 conversion ... but I can't work out how it comes apart.

Some of the screws on the floor are hidden behind underfloor detail which does not look removable. The screws near the end come out but it looks like the floor is also glued. I don't want to bend it because I will struggle to get it straight again.

 

Has anyone taken one of these apart? If so, how?

I spoke to someone from Ellis Clark trains at Warley about this.

The roof is held on by 2 small screws which are accessed through the hole in the coupling. This is more accessible on later Mk1s. I have not tackled mine yet, but it was mentioned they are designed to be taken apart, so I hope to do so without too much trouble.

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Posted (edited)

I attempted to fit some “no smoking” signs in my RMB.... few problems to overcome; the bogie with the power pick ups has very little slack cable to play with and doesn’t actually come off! However it does swivel enough to access the roof screws. My tip would be that once you have unscrewed the roof - temporarily fix the bogies back on to avoid damaging the underframe. The water pipes feeding the RMB are well fitted to the roof so suggest you gently slide out from the coach end brackets. Off comes the roof, but all it reveals is the circuit board for the lights which is well attached and taped to the coach sides. With no apparent slack cable to the bogie and possibility of broken wiring I decided to leave it to another day.... reassembly takes a bit of persuading, but at least got it back to original state. Anybody had a success with this? Tips welcome!! 
 

Should add - I realise the bogie with the pick ups doesn’t actually come off the coach, I meant it didn’t have enough slack wire to come off the mounting screw.

Edited by 56038
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22 hours ago, 56038 said:

I attempted to fit some “no smoking” signs in my RMB.... few problems to overcome; the bogie with the power pick ups has very little slack cable to play with and doesn’t actually come off! However it does swivel enough to access the roof screws. My tip would be that once you have unscrewed the roof - temporarily fix the bogies back on to avoid damaging the underframe. The water pipes feeding the RMB are well fitted to the roof so suggest you gently slide out from the coach end brackets. Off comes the roof, but all it reveals is the circuit board for the lights which is well attached and taped to the coach sides. With no apparent slack cable to the bogie and possibility of broken wiring I decided to leave it to another day.... reassembly takes a bit of persuading, but at least got it back to original state. Anybody had a success with this? Tips welcome!! 
 

Should add - I realise the bogie with the pick ups doesn’t actually come off the coach, I meant it didn’t have enough slack wire to come off the mounting screw.

Hi there,

 

I'm happy to help here!

 

It is a little fiddly, but once you've done it a couple of times you become a pro (and that's coming from me!).

 

Essentially, you've done all the first steps correctly.

 

What I would recomend once you have the roof off is to remove the black insulation tape (this was added to ensure no light escapes between coach sides and roof join).

 

Then, undo all the small screws holding the PCB in place (best to have a small tray to put these in!).

 

Two options from here: 1. you can unsolder the pick-up wires from the PCB (take care note to burn the disc pads off) - you can then fully remove the bogie, or 2. Leave the pick-up wires in place and move the PCB to one side - although with this method and because the pick-up wires have little slack, we find the PCB can still get in the way.

 

Any issues, feel free to call/email us.

 

All the best,

Ellis.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Ellis, I’ll give it a go soon - maybe being a bit too cautious!

 

PS.... why no SC prefixed numbers on transfer sheets? (my only complaint!)

Edited by 56038
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Success - for 2 coaches!! Is a bit fiddly, but learned a lot from my first one.

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