brossard Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The obvious place is the bogie fixing as others have mentioned. A matter of finding balance between body height and bogie clearance. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What's five and half inches between friends. So about 3mm over scale height in 7mm what ever scale height is. I don't suppose that they were that exact building them in real life. I think I can live with being 3 mm out. Hi TT, The prototypes were standardised, their main reason for being, ie built on jigs etc AFAICT. ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Thanks for the info CME. I think I can still live with the difference anyway. But there are those who worry about 3mm so the hunt for a perfect 7mm scale exactly like the real thing goes on. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Hi TT, Each to their own and no value judgements made, one mans meat etc..... Im inclined to agree, however, ride height behind a loco is an obvious thing and jars somewhat. Yet my-above-comment was more to do with the implied laisez faire attitude of BREL-relative to ride heights etc-when building MK1s. ATVB CME Edited February 18, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 As I said, good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 As I said, good luck. Hi TT, With what?? Can you clarify? Good luck with my lottery ticket? LOL! As I mentioned, my previous comments were about the real MK1s and their MO re construction. ie Little if any margin for error. I shall be wishing Darstaed good luck, with their continuous improvement. Imho putting springs on bogies in this scale aint worth the hassle, as it's an exacting science. Also, ironically real springs dont look right/scale either in 7mm imho. ATVB CME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Good luck with finding an exact 7mm scale model of the MK1. That's it, nothing else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Good luck with finding an exact 7mm scale model of the MK1. That's it, nothing else.Hi TT, LOL, Im not looking for such per se. as that is diminishing returns as nothing by human hand is 'perfect'. But Id also say to you MMP MK1. Closely followed by JLTRT, then EZ Build. In RTR to date? Peter Cowling's MK1s, you pays yer money and makes 'yer choice..... And.....perhaps, to follow on Richard Websters' RTR MK1 at £169? We need to allow Darstaed to reply and bring into play their continuous improvement for later batches. As I say, a great shame that the importers did backstop/double check these issues under TQM. TTFN, ATVB CME Edited February 18, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Makes them 12’10”, apparently should be 12’4.5” Hopefully the excess can be lost between the railhead and the floor. Best Simon A difference of less than 6 inches or 3.5mm in "O" Gauge .I can't imagine many people will notice. One for the CME now. As a matter of interest what effect would 9 tons of coal put into the tender of an A3 or A4 on it's ride height please. Regards,Del (now with a headache !!!) Edited February 18, 2018 by CUTLER2579 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2018 Good luck with finding an exact 7mm scale model of the MK1. That's it, nothing else. I’ve deliberately not got involved in this thread as these things are emotive but one thing I would say is that compared to, say, a class 47 cab (!), surely a mk1 coach is not the hardest thing in the world to capture?! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It's never been about perfection - far from it. It's about getting the basic dimensions correct which (note the date on the drawing) were exactly the same from when they were first introduced in 1951 and until they went for scrap or for preservation. Drawings using the dimensions shown below have been in the public domain thanks to the like of Keith Parkin and his Mark 1 Coaching Stock book since 1982 and yet the RTR Companies choose not to use them or verify what's being produced against them an occasionally put their own slant on them knocking everything out. And yet in 7mm kit form both DJP and JLTRT managed it?Note, that in the profile view - the main bodyside curve joins the corner curve of the roof tangentially just above the cant rail. That corner curve joins the main radius of the roof tangentially. If each of these three curves are made tangential to the next you can't fail to get the profile correct providing that you start with the main bodyside radius at the correct distance above rail level. This is what you don't see on the end view of the Darstaed Mk1's or for that matter the original Heljan Mk1's. If that doesn't work on the model or you don't see that, then one of the dimensions you've used is wrong or has been altered. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Thanks Bob. Very interesting info concerning the way the curves joins together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstaed Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Gentlemen,As it is CNY in China we have been travelling in Europe. At the moment we are in Glasgow attending SEC of Model Rail Scotland.I will reply to your observations shortly.Cheers, Andries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class27 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Hello all I have just bought a couple of these at Model Rail Scotland yesterday and am very pleased with them. I particularly like the way they handle my not very scale track layout and very tight entry/exit curve from the hidden to scenic section of my layout. This involved moving the drag boxes out 1 hole on the 3 position settings which means that the gangway ends disconnect around the tight corner, but reconnect themselves on the rest of the track I do have 1 question though The interior lighting is very bright on my 16v dcc supply what would my options be to dim these down a bit. I await the wisdom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Probably the easiest way to dim the lights is to put a resistor in series with them. I am not familiar with the Darstaedt system, but assume they are LEDs. A kilohm or so might work, but you’ll have to suck it and see for actual values. Higher = dimmer. On my JLTRT Toplights, I fitted a capacitor and diode to provide some anti-flicker as well. Details in my PD thread, link below. Best Simon Edited February 24, 2018 by Simond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstaed Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Gentlemen,,My apologies for late reply. Scotland is as beautiful as ever but the weather did not agree with my wife so she is felled by the flu. We are travelling back to the East tomorrow where the temperature will be well above the 20 degrees C.Regarding the bogies and coach height etc.The designs were made and tooling of the bogies started without taking into account the Kadee couplings that are of course larger than life. This is entirely our oversight because we were planning a link coupling initially. Therefore there was not enough clearance and the bogies had to be lowered a bit. We discussed this internally with our gurus and decided that 3 mm max would not detract from the look of the coach that still would look right. Coming from a school that taught me that if something looks right then it is right we proceeded with the production knowing that at any future time we can supply new bogie frames to those customers who wish to replace them. Darstaed has been manufacturing coaches since 1966 and we will be manufacturing coaches for a long time to come. With this long term view in mind we will sort out the wrinkles over time.Those customers who purchased the BR(W) and BR(S) coaches should have received their brake rodding upgrade and if not please contact Ellis Clark to Bob Wyatt of Scale Link.The next upgrade will be the gangway end shield and probably an electronic component. We thank you for your continuing support and input,Cheers, Andries 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Keep up the good work Andries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class27 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Probably the easiest way to dim the lights is to put a resistor in series with them. I am not familiar with the Darstaedt system, but assume they are LEDs. A kilohm or so might work, but you’ll have to suck it and see for actual values. Higher = dimmer. On my JLTRT Toplights, I fitted a capacitor and diode to provide some anti-flicker as well. Details in my PD thread, link below. Best Simon Simon Thanks for your advice, you were not far out at all I tried a 1k resistor and it was much better, so I tried a 1.5k, and I think that is just right, dim enough not to be noticed in daylight and the right amount of light in the dark. The passengers will no longer get a suntan in the coaches!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Excellent, happy to have been able to help. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Hi Andries, Thanks for the the update - speedy recovery for your wife - with regard to the bogie/coupling/coach height issue, will this be remedied on the next batch? Apologies I couldn't glean such from your Post. By and large I agree, with the; 'if it looks right then it is right' issue, but that has to be relative to other stock and locos, loading gauges etc.... Kind regards and wishing you a safe journey, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class27 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Probably going to regret this but here are a couple of pics of Daerstead,Heljan and JLTRT to give some idea of the height thing Not very noticeable and full marks for running quality 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Thanks for those Class 27, funny how some people have knocked the Darstead MK1 details, but that Heljan BG shape is just so so flat.Any chance of some pictures of that layout on a 7mm modelling thread, it looks nice on the little snippets.Best regardsCraig Edited March 4, 2018 by muddys-blues 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airport2010 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Gentlemen,, My apologies for late reply. Scotland is as beautiful as ever but the weather did not agree with my wife so she is felled by the flu. We are travelling back to the East tomorrow where the temperature will be well above the 20 degrees C. Regarding the bogies and coach height etc. The designs were made and tooling of the bogies started without taking into account the Kadee couplings that are of course larger than life. This is entirely our oversight because we were planning a link coupling initially. Therefore there was not enough clearance and the bogies had to be lowered a bit. We discussed this internally with our gurus and decided that 3 mm max would not detract from the look of the coach that still would look right. Coming from a school that taught me that if something looks right then it is right we proceeded with the production knowing that at any future time we can supply new bogie frames to those customers who wish to replace them. Darstaed has been manufacturing coaches since 1966 and we will be manufacturing coaches for a long time to come. With this long term view in mind we will sort out the wrinkles over time. Those customers who purchased the BR(W) and BR(S) coaches should have received their brake rodding upgrade and if not please contact Ellis Clark to Bob Wyatt of Scale Link. The next upgrade will be the gangway end shield and probably an electronic component. We thank you for your continuing support and input, Cheers, Andries Hi Andries Not having had an acknowledgement of the small livery error on the blue/grey stock that I highlighted a couple of weeks ago, can you update me (and others who will have purchased the blue/grey items) with your plan to rectify the issue. To remind you, the guards compartment door on the BSK vehicles has been decorated with transfers from the blood/custard sets, therefore the wording is gold instead of white. I expect you’re currently planning to produce a batch of the correct transfers which will be sent out to all the folk with these blue/grey sets, so I’d just like you to confirm that on here please. Just touching on the vehicle height issues that others have discussed in detail, is the plan to eventually produce future coaches at the correct ride height? If so, I’m right to assume that these existing coaches (regardless of livery) will eventually be able to be lowered to match future batches to avoid having different heights in the same rake, which will look ridiculous. Is that right? To end on a positive, the riding quality is exemplary! Best regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class27 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Andries Will you update this thread when the corridor connecting end blanking plates and screw link couplings become available please thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstaed Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Gentlemen, Thank you for your comments. 1. Re coach height. Can Class 27 please measure exactly hoe much our coach is higher than he diesel loco in the picture ? As the buffers line up it would look like our body does not have the correct dimensions but all body dimensions have been taken from the Parkin book. So this is a mystery.If he coach height offends then I could simply make a new set of springs for the C/W bogies so the whole caach will come down accordingly but then he buffers will be lower too.Are we sure that Heljan got it right ?2. Regarding the decals of course we can make them, no problem. The Q is how easy is it to take the printed word "guard" off ? Also the font is different as on the B/G livery only the letter G is capital and the other letters are minusculi whereas on the earlier liveries all letters were caps. So just making a decal the same size but in white to cover the print wouldn't do as the letters wouldn't be covered.Please comment. 3. The end gangway shield tooling is being made now, shortly I will know when we have produced them. Probably April. Cheers, Andries 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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