'CHARD Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 A scheduled stop at Hobbyrail (no connection other than as satisfied customer) for ingredients on the Highland Baby Sulzer recipe, generated the unexpected but very welcome purchase of Bachmann 37-710 cattle wagon in BR bauxite. Here it is, posing in front of some of Mrs 'CHARD's delightful fresh scones: What can I say? It's delightful, I was always after three of these once they were announced and although I'm reliant on photos, having no recollection of the real thing in traffic, it seems to capture very well the attitude and rugged character of the real deal. This was the only one I could see, but I have got designs on the TMC weathered pack, that will more than make up the numbers. Apologies if I missed these on another thread, but after a search I could only see the Grafar and Dapol ones in N discussed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Prototype is preserved at NRM. see http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p58883706.html Paul York 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 There was something on the old forum when they first came out, but it's good that the second batch is here - my mate wants some of these Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Scrolling through Paul Bartlett's selection, wasn't it nice to see that when no longer required for cattle transport, one was made available for the personal conveyance of the Nottingham civil engineer. But more seriously, I have heard the story that the BR cattle wagons (which were pretty much redundant at the time of construction due to majority of the trade decamping to the road) were used for moving fruit and veg to help cope with the high peak loads of this traffic. I have seen photos of LNE and LMS cattle vans branded fruit, was this done on BR cattle wagons? Any pictures? Groping wildly here for a chance to use a couple with my other grouping prototype kitbuilds in this traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 We've certainly explored their use as barrier wagons before, but I'm also very interested to know about evidence of use in perishables or merch traffic into the latter days.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 Scrolling through Paul Bartlett's selection, wasn't it nice to see that when no longer required for cattle transport, one was made available for the personal conveyance of the Nottingham civil engineer. But more seriously, I have heard the story that the BR cattle wagons (which were pretty much redundant at the time of construction due to majority of the trade decamping to the road) were used for moving fruit and veg to help cope with the high peak loads of this traffic. I have seen photos of LNE and LMS cattle vans branded fruit, was this done on BR cattle wagons? Any pictures? Groping wildly here for a chance to use a couple with my other grouping prototype kitbuilds in this traffic. There is an old Model Rail which looked at detailing the Dapol cattle wagon, and there is a photograph around 1956/7 with a Hall running up from Cornwall with a full train of cattle wagons full of Broccoli! Not a single animal to be seen, so I think they were used for fruit and veg, if only during the 'peak' of the season. Regards, Nick 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 I love that, mate! Awesome!!! I've referred teasingly to sporadic and seasonal late sixties asparagus and pigeon traffic on Lessismore, so that fits in beautifully! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 They could also be used for beer traffic, sometimes branded ALE... Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 That brocolli traffic was also a feature of a BTP film on the delicate nature of keeping trains running across all the regions and how holes in loco requirements are filled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 ... there is a photograph around 1956/7 with a Hall running up from Cornwall with a full train of cattle wagons full of Broccoli! ... Nick, Excellent, that's all I need to have them moving East Anglian taters up to Town. Is the picture good enough to reveal whether these cattle wagons were specifically lettered, labelled or otherwise identified for this traffic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 There is an old Model Rail which looked at detailing the Dapol cattle wagon, and there is a photograph around 1956/7 with a Hall running up from Cornwall with a full train of cattle wagons full of Broccoli! Not a single animal to be seen, so I think they were used for fruit and veg, if only during the 'peak' of the season. Regards, Nick Nick.Thats a photo worth modelling ,which issue was it in ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 Nick, Excellent, that's all I need to have them moving East Anglian taters up to Town. Is the picture good enough to reveal whether these cattle wagons were specifically lettered, labelled or otherwise identified for this traffic? Niggling in the back of my mind is something about potatoes having to be loaded in vans for some reason. Mind you that would in any case have been in the times not long after the demise of most cattle wagons - and I can't find a reference anywhere in any of the Loading Guides I can easily lay hands on so it might just be a 'niggle' or have come from an evening class on terminal working back in the 1960s. Cattle wagons were apparently always regarded as 'good' for broccoli as they apparently allowed air to circulate (to some extent) round the boxes of produce thus helping to keep it looking fresh. PS The 'background' to the pic at the head of this thread looks as tempting as the wagon :icon_drool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 They were used on traffic such as lettuce from the North West to London too up to the early 1960's - I have a picture of an LMR class 4F 0-6-0 trundling through Chinley in 1959 with five 'cattle wagons' and a standard brake van in tow- but the caption makes out that they were cleaned first (!) as evidenced by the 'lime' marks appearance of some of them. The image is in 'Railways around Manchester' (Gilbert and Knight 1973) . Long out of print, but a cracking photo and a very modellable train too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I have a picture of an LMR class 4F 0-6-0 trundling through Chinley in 1959 with five 'cattle wagons' and a standard brake van in tow- but the caption makes out that they were cleaned first (!) as evidenced by the 'lime' marks appearance of some of them. <Qi Buzzer Noise> Lime wash to clean out cattle vans was banned in the 1920's I believe. Although you still see huge amounts of model cattle vans with white stains around their bases, it seems that it's a common misconeption that they continued this practise until a lot later on. There's a fair bit here: http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=246 Pix 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 Nick.Thats a photo worth modelling ,which issue was it in ? I'll have a look up in the loft for it Rob, all my old magazines go up there, but I will look this afternoon. I was planning to model the train in the future as it was something different! Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Lime might have been used in cases of food transport and washed out before it returned to normal service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 I've had a quick look upstairs Rod and I think it is about 2003/4 I'm still looking as we speak! Right found it! Model Rail numbers 53, 55, 57 and 59 a series about cattle wagons written by Steve Banks detailing and improving various models, lots of photographs. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 a series about cattle wagons written by Steve Banks detailing and improving various models, lots of photographs Perhaps you could bring the articles in to DRAG, Nick, and we could talk about detailing some Airfix/Dapol ones - I'm sure you would find that a much more gratifying exercise than removing your credit card from it's wallet at some model shop!... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 <Qi Buzzer Noise> Lime wash to clean out cattle vans was banned in the 1920's I believe. Although you still see huge amounts of model cattle vans with white stains around their bases, it seems that it's a common misconeption that they continued this practise until a lot later on. There's a fair bit here: http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=246 Pix We have been here before (on the previous incarnation of RMWeb) but I'm not sure if I could accurately date it then although I did a lot of delving. I think the use of limewash as a disinfectant for cattle vehicles was banned c.1927 but can definitely state that it was post 1923 and I'm reasonably sure that it was pre 1930. The limewash was not used to clean out cattle wagons but waqs used after cleaning to disinfect the vehicles. It was banned because it could injure animals, particularly if it was incorrectly mixed, and was replaced by the use of a liquid disinfectant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 They could also be used for beer traffic, sometimes branded ALE... Bill OMG, this is awesome (overused word of the day), yet another possible commercial user of my branch, sending its products out by rale. Sounds like a cluster of these wagons is by no means inexcusable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted March 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2010 Perhaps you could bring the articles in to DRAG, Nick, and we could talk about detailing some Airfix/Dapol ones - I'm sure you would find that a much more gratifying exercise than removing your credit card from it's wallet at some model shop!... Will do! Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The Bachmann model is a lovely little piece, just a pity that it wasn't of the LMS one, as the Airfix model stands the test of time well, and is in no real way a lesser version of the prototype than the Bachmann model. Once the hinges for the opening doors are tidied up , it is more than adequate for purpose. I bought some of the new ones with an eye to replacing the kits, but on comparing them decided that the increase quality didn't justify it. Mine date back to the early 70's and are still running with round ended Jackson wheels, but are being kept on. I still have a strategic reserve of unmade Airfix one if they need to be added to; the quality of the current Dapol plastic offerings is iffy to say the least, but there appear to be plenty Airfix ones about on E-Bay. Attached is a shot of the two versions on my layout- excuse the original hinges as these date from a time when I didn't bother about such things, and has joined the list of something to be done about one day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Can anyone confirm whether these releases are identical to those released last year, or whether they carry different running numbers? I have to agee that they were a superb model when they first appeared - the Modelzone weathered trio really do look good. I also bought the late BR and GWR versions (hence I have no idea whether the running number of the wagon showed in the OP's post is the same or different from when initially released because that was the one varient I didn't get). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggie7 Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I was looking forward to buying two or three of the new BR cattle vans from Bachmann to save me building the old Airfix kits, which would need some alterations to get rid of the door hinges, etc. A mate arrived with his new purchase of a cattle van and initial inspection was positive. When I compared it to an Airfix/Dapol one I found the Bachmann one to have an underframe length of 19ft 6in. All the info I can find on the BR wagon states that the wagons were 18ft 6in long. He has gone now so I can't double check it but I don't think that I imagined it. Have Bachmann really made the wagon one foot too long? That's a whole 4mm - looks deliberate but can't think why they would do that. Am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Hi Hoggie7 You're quite right, the Bachmann cattle van is 78mm long over the bufferbeams. If you are right and the prototypes were 18'6" long, that's a b*******! I was planning to buy several more to make up a livestock train! Now I'll have to think again. Where did you get the information that the BR wagons were 18'6" long? I measured a Coopercraft GW cattle wagon and that is 74mm long .... The BR version was derived from the GWR one. The other error that I believe it has (along with all their other fitted stock) is that the buffers are too short. I understand that the buffer shanks on unfitted wagons were 18inches long but on fitted vehicles they had to be 20 inches ... David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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