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Holywell Town (OO scale BLT)


Signaller69
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The only remains of the station are the trackbed and the overbridge which are shown here (the site, particularly the headshunt end/platform area having been considerably in-filled in the years since closure).

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The pic below is looking across the road bridge, which provided access from the goods yard up to the town. The station platform was to the left where the semi circular wall stands. Part of the original zig-zag access path can be seen through the trees.

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Edited by Signaller69
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Hi Martyn

An excellent small layout and thanks for posting the photos of both your model and what's now left. I've always been rather intrigued by Hollywell Town ever since I discovered it as one of Cyril Freezer's plans of the month. I didn't know until your post that the run round was purely to get locos of goods trains to the upper end for shunting. That does make it a real life Inglenook Sidings with no using the mainline to cheat and the extra challenge of the two brake vans. Do you happen to know the real capacity of the run round and the two sidings?

 

How large is your layout of it ?

Edited by Pacific231G
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Hi Martyn

An excellent small layout and thanks for posting the photos of both your model and what's now left. I've always been rather intrigued by Hollywell Town ever since I discovered it as one of Cyril Freezer's plans of the month. I didn't know until your post that the run round was purely to get locos of goods trains to the upper end for shunting. That does make it a real life Inglenook Sidings with no using the mainline to cheat and the extra challenge of the two brake vans. Do you happen to know the real capacity of the run round and the two sidings?

 

How large is your layout of it ?

Thanks, yes the genuine "Inglenook plus run-round" concept was one of the appeals. There is a very good book which was published locally, "The Tramways & Railways to Holywell" which is a mine of information, according to which the capacity of the 2 sidings was 21 wagons total (iirc my model is 19). Trains were limited to 3 fulls or 5 empties plus brake vans; as I tried to model the track layout to scale, I can confirm 5 plus 2 short brake vans just fits, clear of the catch points at the bottom of the loop. As you may have noticed I use tension lock couplings with attendant home made clear acetate uncouplers. I have found the position of these ie clear of pointwork, along with using the longer Airfix/Dapol/Hornby LMS 20T brake vans rather than short brake vans which seem to have been used in reality, and having fixed uncouplers, 4 wagons plus brake vans is the practical limit. However now Bachmann do the short 20T Midland style Brake vans used on the prototype that may be able to be corrected (hence I'm after a couple of the new "Mill Town" partworks mentioned elsewhere as part 1 has just such a van, for just £2.99!).

 

As an aside, Crescent sidings just below St. Winefrides halt (1/4 mile from Town station) had siding space for 35 wagons in the form of a long loop on the level, mainly coal for the adjacent factories down in the Greenfield Valley, where a long chute was used to drop the coal! (Traces of this still exist.)

 

The layout is 8'4" long by 2' wide; the curved backscene at the goods yard end conceals the 2 track fiddle yard behind it; due to the scale gradient the hole in the backscene is quite well disguised.

 

A more "minimum space" version of Holywell Town could of course be produced by modelling only the area from the road bridge to the headshunt; with the sidings largely hidden in a short fiddle yard loads could be removed ready for the empties to return "down the hill".

 

Editted for extra info.

Edited by Signaller69
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  • 3 months later...

This morning "Holywell Town" was transported to Greenfield Valley Heritage Park where it will be on long term loan as part of a new exhibition opening soon, featuring local rail and tramway artefacts in the old Wool Mill adjacent to the former Holywell Town branch trackbed (now footpath). The layout will be clad with wood surrounds and I believe, a perspex cover (or behind barriers) to prevent ingress of fingers; much preparatory work is being undertaken at the Mill prior to opening.

 

The plan is that myself or other volunteers will be able to have the layout running on selected open days and for school groups etc; an auto shuttle can be used at other times where required.

 

Other items on display include a stationary steam engine (working on selected dates), a huge stationary pumping engine (immaculate but non working), a me hanical pop bottling line, an electric mine tramway loco (in need of restoration) and mine wagons, along with local tramway rails and other artefacts.

 

Updates on opening dates/times to follow.

 

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Hi Martyn

An excellent small layout and thanks for posting the photos of both your model and what's now left. I've always been rather intrigued by Hollywell Town ever since I discovered it as one of Cyril Freezer's plans of the month. I didn't know until your post that the run round was purely to get locos of goods trains to the upper end for shunting. That does make it a real life Inglenook Sidings with no using the mainline to cheat and the extra challenge of the two brake vans. Do you happen to know the real capacity of the run round and the two sidings?

 

How large is your layout of it ?

 

I didn't know about the loco downhill arrangement either. It explains the rather odd track layout at the junction end of the branch.

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  • RMweb Gold

I think that I probably have one of those old Farish OO suburban coaches somewhere which I could convert.

 

But looking at my Chester-Holyhead book, there is a much more interesting push-pull coach illustrated. Not a good view but it is more in the style of an early GW autocoach - perhaps a conversion from an LNW railmotor.

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I think that I probably have one of those old Farish OO suburban coaches somewhere which I could convert.

 

But looking at my Chester-Holyhead book, there is a much more interesting push-pull coach illustrated. Not a good view but it is more in the style of an early GW autocoach - perhaps a conversion from an LNW railmotor.

Ah yes, I suspect you may mean this one;

 

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I was told the original worked on Anglesey before ending up on the Holywell branch, I suspect it started as an LNWR Railmotor or trailer car as you say.

 

I was loaned the model at Colwyn show a couple of years ago, iirc it is a Larry Goddard ("Coachmann" on here I think - apologies if mistaken) model, and absolutely lovely.

 

Regarding the LMS standard push/pull coach, I'm sure Bachmann announced one but little seems to have been mentioned in the press lately. The Farish one is very dated now of course, and a little short but can be made passable with work, and is a fairly cheap option.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

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  • RMweb Gold

Indeed, I think that is the one.

 

Hardly such a thing as a standard LMS push-pull coach as many were conversions. But with Bachmann now producing models of several ex-LMS locos with PP capability, it would seem like an obvious option for them to produce a suitable item of rolling stock.

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  • RMweb Gold

I was briefly involved with an S4 (I think, rather than P4) model of this station back in the 1970s.

 

I also photographed the site.

 

From the 1937 appendix :

 

Holywell Jcn - Town was worked by one engine in steam using a round, brown, staff and the "foreman" was deemed suitable to accept / deliver the staff.

 

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I was briefly involved with an S4 (I think, rather than P4) model of this station back in the 1970s. I also photographed the site. From the 1937 appendix : Holywell Jcn - Town was worked by one engine in steam using a round, brown, staff and the "foreman" was deemed suitable to accept / deliver the staff. attachicon.gif20170525_101653.jpg

Thanks for that. It would be interesting to know what the station site looked like in the 1970s, any chance you might be able to show any of the photos you took, if the site was much different then?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

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  • RMweb Gold

I was briefly involved with an S4 (I think, rather than P4) model of this station back in the 1970s.

 

 

I think I may have seen it as a lad at the Merseyside Show at the Bluecoat Chambers in Liverpool - is that the one? If so it was outstanding.

Chris

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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for that. It would be interesting to know what the station site looked like in the 1970s, any chance you might be able to show any of the photos you took, if the site was much different then?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

 

Hi Martyn,

 

Unfortunately my photos were only taken just before Tescos commenced, so fairly recently.

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  • RMweb Gold

I think I may have seen it as a lad at the Merseyside Show at the Bluecoat Chambers in Liverpool - is that the one? If so it was outstanding.

Chris

 

Thats the one - it was already built when I became involved and that was only for a short time.

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  • RMweb Gold

One of the South London clubs, Croydon or Beckenham also had a model of Holywell Town: EM I think. That would have been back in the 70s. I am fairly sure that they did not know about the special operating rule though as I recall locos running round the train in the conventional way.

 

Would make a good starter project in O. And the engine always being at the downhill end of the train makes for a simpler fiddleyard arrangement that does not need a second operator.

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I made a model of this little station after seeing Cyril Freezers artical in the Modeller. It was on show in the Stafford exhibition in 1964. I was a lone operator and with three link couplings, it was hard work. I went on to using Alex Jackson couplings after that.

I sold the layout in 1965 soon after moving house and job.

Derek

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I was loaned the model at Colwyn show a couple of years ago, iirc it is a Larry Goddard ("Coachmann" on here I think - apologies if mistaken) model, and absolutely lovely.

Yes it is one of mine, a LNWR Dia. M49. I did a range of LNW push pull open saloons between 2001 and 2005. 

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Many thanks for clarifying and for the Diagram information.

Regards,

Martyn.

 

I tried Googling it. Most unusually, no results. Gladiator have a different diagram LNW autocoach in their range but not currently available.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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I tried Googling it. Most unusually, no results. Gladiator have a different diagram LNW autocoach in their range but not currently available.

David Jenkinson published floor plans in his LNWR Coaches book along with LNWR diagram numbers, and there wasn't much more information at the time. Anyway, he came up with window frame size and so I started plotting out a D49 open saloon. Northstar Design offered to translate it all onto CAD and my first coach was duly etched. Dave Holt (of this forum) purchased one and came over with two large scale drawings he had unearthed. Armed with this information, I etched all the open saloon diagrams built from 1911 that had worked the Oldham-Delph branch plus two corridor push-pulls. I included all the info in my book on this branch and I am sure David J. would have updated the LNWR push pull chapter in his next LNWR coach book had he lived long enough.

Edited by coachmann
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I tried Googling it. Most unusually, no results. Gladiator have a different diagram LNW autocoach in their range but not currently available.

 

 

I believe that the Gladiator coach is a Dia M52, which in itself is a prior Northstar Design kit.

From what I've read (interpreted), I think these were converted from corridor stock, and I think one worked on the Delph branch as well.

 

I'm waiting for Mr Hill to let me know when it's back in production as I think they are a handsome coach. 

 

Jinty ;)

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In case it is of interest, the four LNWR Dia. M52 were built in 1913 as push pull driving trailers and were the only LNWR side corridor coaches equipped with driving compartment. I had produced scale drawings and assisted friend Adrian at Northstar Design when he decided to produce it in 7mm scale.

 

LNWR Numbers : 492, 506, 514 & 533.

1st LMS numbers: 5211-5214

1933 renumbered: 3407-3410.  

Withdrawn between February 1952 and October 1958.

 

Originally had push-pull rodding. Converted to auto vac equipment in the mid 1930;s. 3407 and 3410 worked on the Delph Branch from 1951 but at different times.

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  • 2 years later...

Been a while since I posted in this thread, but the Greenfield Valley Rails & Steam Museum is finally ready to open, with an Open Afternoon this Thursday 27th June, 1pm to 3pm, Facebook link here: https://www.facebook.com/events/412769595988580/?ti=cl 

 

I have recently sourced 2 bargain Bachmann short LMS 20T Brake Vans which appear to be the type used on the Holywell Town branch, which will replace a couple of old Airfix long versions.

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Hopefully they will be weathered ready to take their place on the layout on Thursday, all being well the layout will be running.

 

Martyn.

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Or these, as these are post grouping, I don't know if they are LMS or later BR period running numbers etc.,  But LNWR Dia 93A Brake Vans.
 

Holywell Bk Vans.jpg

Edited by Penlan
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