Jump to content

Holywell Town (OO scale BLT)


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Penlan said:

Or these, as these are post grouping, I don't know if they are LMS or later BR period running numbers etc.,  But LNWR Dia 93A Brake Vans.
 

Holywell Bk Vans.jpg

Thanks, they would seem plausible candidates. Unfortunately there are precious few photos of freight trains on the branch, but I have been passed a photo of a LMS 20T Brake which had derailed at Holywell Town during shunting (possibly on the catch points in the sidings), being assisted, presumably some time later, by an Ivatt 2-6-2T and men with crowbars; the Push & Pull coach having been left in the Goods Loop.

 

Martyn.

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Around 40 years ago, I took over a part constructed layout of Holywell Town to finish off, which I didn't, to limited in it's operation.
One of the things I had was a selonoid on the loop under the bridge that pushed a rod up to trap a wagon axle so any stock left during shunting) did not run down the gradient - There's not much you can move with that very short headshunt.
I still have the overbridge and the Yard Office from Holywell Town, now on my layout (Penlan).
I did have a mass of drawings of the Branch, but these are now either with the Welsh Railways Research Circle or back with Roger Carpenter.
Back in the 70's my youngest lad played for the County Badminton Schools team (Worcestershire), many of the inter-County matches were played at Holywell (I know, don't ask me why there), so I had plenty of time to walk the site and line - Such happens when your a parent, plenty of travelling :wacko:
Best of luck with the model.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Penlan said:

Around 40 years ago, I took over a part constructed layout of Holywell Town to finish off, which I didn't, to limited in it's operation.
One of the things I had was a selonoid on the loop under the bridge that pushed a rod up to trap a wagon axle so any stock left during shunting) did not run down the gradient - There's not much you can move with that very short headshunt.
I still have the overbridge and the Yard Office from Holywell Town, now on my layout (Penlan).
I did have a mass of drawings of the Branch, but these are now either with the Welsh Railways Research Circle or back with Roger Carpenter.
Back in the 70's my youngest lad played for the County Badminton Schools team (Worcestershire), many of the inter-County matches were played at Holywell (I know, don't ask me why there), so I had plenty of time to walk the site and line - Such happens when your a parent, plenty of travelling :wacko:
Best of luck with the model.

 

I built the layout a few years ago and it is on long term loan to the Greenfield Valley Heritage Centre, in the new Steam & Rails Museum; I am going to check it over tomorrow, as it is in a protective cabinet (a necessary precaution sadly). I use foam to bare on the axles of the lower brake van which prevents runaways (2 brake Van's per train of course, front and rear due to being propelled), but had considered a vertical rod to achieve the same ends. 

 

Goods operation is quite interesting due to running around required, but Passenger operation is quite basic as you say, a Gaugemaster Shuttle unit being sufficient when the layout is on display.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
22 hours ago, Gilbert said:

Does anyone know of a source of drawings (preferably 4mm) of the buildings on the platform?

Not that I'm aware of, although I think they were fairly standard small LNWR designs. There were several changes to the buildings over the years though; as first built, only the main Booking Office was provided and I recently learned that the Vacuum operated luggage lift was built soon after. The Booking Office was later extended (with alterations to door positions etc), probably around the time the separate Ladies Room and Gents toilets were built. The waiting shelter at the foot of the access path was added later still (1930s iirc). The lift was removed around WW2.

 

If you need more specific timescales drop me a line and I will check my books.

 

Martyn.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Thanks Martyn - I'm not modelling Holywell as such but thought the buildings would make a nice addition to a small platform I have on a mainly goods layout based in N Wales. I shall try to find some generic LNWR information. Having said that it does not look too difficult to come up with a few sketches to inform a build.

Chris

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Thanks Martyn - I'm not modelling Holywell as such but thought the buildings would make a nice addition to a small platform I have on a mainly goods layout based in N Wales. I shall try to find some generic LNWR information. Having said that it does not look too difficult to come up with a few sketches to inform a build.

Chris

Chris, if you want a very minimalist LNWR style Booking Office, Dyserth is worth a look - about the same size as the Ladies Room at Holywell Town! Photos can be found here:  

http://disused-stations.org.uk/d/dyserth/index.shtml

Dyserth, of course, is another very modellable location in an "Inglenook" style with just 3 sidings (plus a sharply curved short branch to the quarry) and no run-round facilities.

 

Martyn.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

Some of the rolling stock used on Holywell Town, which was produced by myself several years ago; a mix of RTR and kit builds, mostly repainted and relettered to represent local concerns. 

 

A couple of Slaters Kits repainted into Buckley area coal carrying wagons:

20191121_132545.jpg.020d5902f1a6b436fb14df4a1d6b4ccd.jpg

 

Old Airfix 7 plank wagons as Bagillt Bettisfield Colliery, which served Crescent Sidings and probably Holywell Town Coal Merchants; this was quite a sizable wagon fleet in reality:

20191121_132600.jpg.726adf1884f19e213349176918856c3e.jpg

 

One of two Push/Pull coaches (in BR Crimson, the other being LMS Maroon) converted from elderly Graham Farish Brake 3rd Coaches. These may be replaced with more modern versions at some point. The "roof conduit" was copied from a roof photo at Holywell, before realising it was a totally different design of coach...!

20191121_132747.jpg.1125dcbb9fd1f98868baae0a9526f882.jpg

 

And a photo of the basic Goods Shed from an angle not usually seen. A good photo of the prototype has yet to surface so it is based on distant views, some which appear to show a curved roof, and some a peaked roof, along with variations in shade / colour:

20191121_132812.jpg.e3ebd5fdc33bd8305dce821d13f0e08a.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This unusual artefact was found half buried near Crescent Sidings on the Branch, believed to be a very old (LNWR?) Facing Point Lock mechanism (one was fitted here off the "Main Line"), which may have been discarded following replacement, or after the line closed.

20191121_145157.jpg.f31f11a434680f379b5f960c9fd95198.jpg20191121_145123.jpg.ce5c163e1c6fa31c59bd046c2dfa985c.jpg20191121_145247.jpg.0fcc88624743c7b06a4e2ef7d8661f1c.jpg

 

It is roughly 15" square, cast iron and extremely heavy. It is now in the care of the Rails & Steam Volunteers at Greenfield Valley Heritage Park and any definitive info would be welcomed by us. Thanks.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
On 03/05/2021 at 19:37, Sion said:

Hi there do you have any other private wagon from the old WM&CQ line many thanks 

Hi Sion,

I replied to your PM before seeing this, the only other specifically WM&CQ one is a Buckley Traders Wagon for shipping narrow gauge traders brick wagons from Buckley to Connah's Quay, converted from a Hornby 4 plank wagon.

20210504_195329.jpg.c6dd55f4f738b3a17fb6fa1c0edaa204.jpg

I need to cast some NG Traders wagons to load it with.

 

Martyn.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/05/2017 at 11:38, Joseph_Pestell said:

One of the South London clubs, Croydon or Beckenham also had a model of Holywell Town: EM I think. That would have been back in the 70s. I am fairly sure that they did not know about the special operating rule though as I recall locos running round the train in the conventional way.

 

Would make a good starter project in O. And the engine always being at the downhill end of the train makes for a simpler fiddleyard arrangement that does not need a second operator.

 

Croydon Model Railway Society did indeed build a model of Hollywell Town in EM in the late 1970s
IIRC we added an extra siding to make shunting the goods rather more interesting at exhibitions.

 

Sadly, the layout was lost, along with all the others, when the clubrooms burned down in 1989.

  • Friendly/supportive 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Phatbob said:

 

Croydon Model Railway Society did indeed build a model of Hollywell Town in EM in the late 1970s
IIRC we added an extra siding to make shunting the goods rather more interesting at exhibitions.

 

Sadly, the layout was lost, along with all the others, when the clubrooms burned down in 1989.

Thanks for that Bob, how sad regarding the club rooms and loss of layouts. 

 

Shunting with the 2 sidings (level) plus loop line (on a gradient) is broadly similar to an Inglenook design with a restricted headshunt, but longer sidings obviously, plus the need to finish up with 2 brakevans at the front and rear of the train. The passenger operations are very basic with a Push/Pull train of course.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Thanks for that Bob, how sad regarding the club rooms and loss of layouts. 

 

Shunting with the 2 sidings (level) plus loop line (on a gradient) is broadly similar to an Inglenook design with a restricted headshunt, but longer sidings obviously, plus the need to finish up with 2 brakevans at the front and rear of the train. The passenger operations are very basic with a Push/Pull train of course.


Cheers Martyn.  It was a great loss, but a phoenix rose from the ashes. ;-)
From memory, a diagram of the CMRS version would be something like this (a quick sketch I did on SCARM).
Regards,
Bob.

Holywell longer.PNG

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Phatbob said:


Cheers Martyn.  It was a great loss, but a phoenix rose from the ashes. ;-)
From memory, a diagram of the CMRS version would be something like this (a quick sketch I did on SCARM).
Regards,
Bob.

Holywell longer.PNG

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that a third siding could have been added if it was needed. Did the layout incorporate the gradient into the platform/loop? 

 

Photo from the line up from Holywell Junction, showing the grade into the platform (just beyond bridge on right side, where the gradient eased), more or less where the point into the loop was, with goods yard on the level to the left side.

20201014_123348.jpg.bb134fe39cf563bbc8dbfb1e486f62a7.jpg

(NB beyond the bridge has been substantially infilled since closure.)

 

And looking in the same direction from where the Coal Office once stood at the end of the Coal siding. The low retaining wall alongside the siding still in situ under the ivy, with the access road running down from the bridge now overgrown.

20201014_123914.jpg.7a4e42db79979fb2d061e00145efc1d8.jpg

 

I found with the platform and loop being "on the grade", the brake van at the "bottom end" needed a working handbrake, not only to keep itself in place during shunting, but to stop up to 5 wagons beyond it all rolling away through the catch point!

Pieces of foam wedged between the floor and axle did the trick, some trial and error being needed to get the right amount of friction, but work it does, without bits of wire sticking up through the track bed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

 Did the layout incorporate the gradient into the platform/loop?

 

Yes, the layout was to scale and included the appropriate gadient down to the fiddle yard etc.  I can't remember how the EM guys got around the wagons running away downhill issue, but they did have some plan of Baldrickian cunning.  It worked okay at exhibitions, that's for sure.  I did get to operate it at some point, but I wasn't one of the construction team and I just can't remember what the solution was.  It was a long time ago now!
I remember that they had a lovely steam railmotor for the passenger service, in addition to at least one push-pull set.  All the stock was scratch or kit built and the track hand-made with rail soldered to copper clad sleepers.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.