A database of GWR photo references

[The Fatadder]

For a long while I have been considering creating a database containing a list of all the photos suitable for my modelling period that are contained within the various books in my library.  I would like to be in a position that if I am looking for a photo of a 1947 Hall for example, I can quickly check the reference books to see if there is a suitable photo (in the same way that you can check the GWRJ archive, or search the internet.)

 

This got me thinking that it might be something which has a wider interest, and would be equally of interest to people modelling other time periods.  So before I make a start, I would like to know if anyone else is interested in contributing.

 

My plan is simple, it will consist of an Excel spreadsheet (hopefully at attached to this post) which has a common format.  as a member sends me a new book I will update it in the master database.

 

I am thinking along the lines of the following fields:
Book Title, Page no, Date, Loco Number, Class, Livery, Location, Other Details (coach details, interesting notes etc.) 

 

 

Books Covered:

 

The Great Western Railway in the 1930s Window on the Great Western.  An Album of Everyday Scenes from the 1930s &40s The Great Western Railway in the 1930s Vol 2 Great Western Steam in the West Country

 

In progress:

 

Branchlines to Newquay The Early Years of Western Region Steam: An Album of P M Alexander's Photographs The Big 4 in Colour Great Western Steam 1935 - 1949

 

 Version Linked Below (Updated 10/2/17) note: if date are not showing correctly, please format date field to "short date" while we work on a proper solution 

loco-picture-database (2).xls

[Karhedron]

I would be interested in such a resource and would be willing to help to contribute to it.

 

I feel that an excel spreadsheet might prove tricky to manage but is probably quicker and easier than setting up some sort of database. A proper database would be much more useful but would require someone with the skills and resources to set up.

[The Stationmaster]

Great idea - and I've only got a few hundred books to rake through to list photos ( )

[Stubby47]

I would add Book author, Publisher and ISBN number (if applicable).

 

You would also need to suggest standards on how the data is to be formatted  ('56xx' or 'Class 56xx', 'Truro' or 'Truro Platform 2', etc.) - this will reduce your time in adding entries to the spreadsheet.

 

As a lot of us will have the same books, perhaps a list in the OP of this thread of the books 'processed' might help too.

 

I'm also willing to get involved.

 

Stu

[Clearwater]

I've thought of similar and had made a start. I'll upload what I did later. From memory, I had loco, loco livery, book, page reference, coach stock (I'd started with the David Geen books), date

 

Stu - yes, I had a separate columns for book. I'm also using the iPhone app book crawler to catalogue what I own as it's easy to forget when browsing second hand stalls!

 

I'd also recommend excel as it's a more common programme and does 80% of what you need and is easy to manage data

 

David

[BG John]

I've had various attempts to do something similar over the years, but never got anywhere! I need references for 1905, 1885-1890, and the whole broad gauge era, while you're at it .

[The Fatadder]

I think Excel should do the job (at least initially), if it does end up too unwieldy and a database expert comes along I don't think it will be too difficult to import...

 

Glad to see that others are also interested, the more that contribute and the more books covered the more useful the resource will be!  

 

I will keep a list in the initial post of all books covered (at least to begin with, hopefully with time it will need to be a case of checking the excel to see if covered or not due to there being too many books to fit in the first post!)

 

In terms of referencing similar terms, standardising on class descriptions would be handy, but then the question is what do you use.  is a Hall a 49xx, 4900 or a Hall?  At the very least I would suggest dropping the "Class" from 49xx Class given its duplicating the columns name. 

 

I have two of the Lockett books in my suitcase while I am in Spain this week, so I will crack on with those once I get home from the office...

[Miss Prism]

When the spreadsheet has reached a minimum level of maturity, I would be happy to host it on gwr.org.uk

 

I think at this stage a standardisation on the order and titles of the fields would be useful, to facilitate the eventual welding together of contributions from different contributors.

[Clearwater]

In my spreadsheet, I'd already done the two Geen et al tomes plus I think Yarwood "Window on the Western"

 

If what I've done works, I'm happy for it to be used as a template for others. I'll post it around 8pm tonight.

 

David

[The Fatadder]

When the spreadsheet has reached a minimum level of maturity, I would be happy to host it on gwr.org.uk

 

I think at this stage a standardisation on the order and titles of the fields would be useful, to facilitate the eventual welding together of contributions from different contributors.

That sounds perfect thanks, 

 

In my spreadsheet, I'd already done the two Geen et al tomes plus I think Yarwood "Window on the Western"

 

If what I've done works, I'm happy for it to be used as a template for others. I'll post it around 8pm tonight.

 

David

Perfect thanks, I look forward to having a look.

 

The downside of this project is that it is almost certainly result in me wanting to buy more books once I start seeing references to photos that I want to see!

[Stubby47]

That sounds perfect thanks, 

 

Perfect thanks, I look forward to having a look.

 

The downside of this project is that it is almost certainly result in me wanting to buy more books once I start seeing references to photos that I want to see!

 

I guess an RMweb lending library is not a feasible option - the cost of posting books around and risk of not getting them back would deter most members.  What are the copyright rules on copying for non-commercial / non-re-publishing (e.g. on here) uses ?

[OldSutt]

I started a similar task several years ago in Microsoft Access to catalogue the photos of GWR locos from various sources.

However I lost interest after 35 pages of A4. You are welcome to the Access file if you want it to experiment with.

[The Fatadder]

I started a similar task several years ago in Microsoft Access to catalogue the photos of GWR locos from various sources.

However I lost interest after 35 pages of A4. You are welcome to the Access file if you want it to experiment with.

Thanks, that will be really helpful. I will drop you a pm with my email.

 

The potential loss of interest is why I want to involve as many people as possible, the more people the less effort per person (and the more likely this will grow in size)

[Clearwater]

Spreadsheet I'd started a little while ago. 

• Tab 1 is called Books and contains details, though I didnt add ISBN (agreed it is a good addition)
• Tab 2 is pictures.  Fields are: Loco 1 (usually the main loco in a picture) and I've puts its number unless not given, them class, company, loco livery, other locos, location, date (where given), coach diagrams, book, then page/pic number and a notes field based on if there were anything unusual in the picture.  eg no outside steam pipes, or no fire tunnel etc
• On the question of class, I used Star, Castle etc and either 4575 or 54xx depending on the text.
• Any errors, please shout!
• In the loco livery n/c means "not clear"

It being excel you can sort / search for key terms.

 

As you can see, I ploughed through the two GWR in the 1930s books.

 

David

Loco picture database.xlsx

[jonny777]

I think there should be an online national database of all railway images; and proposed this for the Millennium.

 

My idea was that anyone would pay a small yearly fee, plus an even smaller image fee (for copyright purposes) in order to access the millions of photographs I predicted would become available, with the pre-2000 publicity.

 

I was told that the Dome would encompass all that.

[The Great Bear]

Great idea. Whether tender type would merit a separate column in such a spreadsheet and class of train? Also whether foreign interlopers on GWR metals should sully such a spreadsheet - LNER locos, WDs or USATC etc. I'm getting carried away and over-complicating things I suspect!

[The Fatadder]

Spreadsheet I'd started a little while ago. 

• Tab 1 is called Books and contains details, though I didnt add ISBN (agreed it is a good addition)
• Tab 2 is pictures.  Fields are: Loco 1 (usually the main loco in a picture) and I've puts its number unless not given, them class, company, loco livery, other locos, location, date (where given), coach diagrams, book, then page/pic number and a notes field based on if there were anything unusual in the picture.  eg no outside steam pipes, or no fire tunnel etc
• On the question of class, I used Star, Castle etc and either 4575 or 54xx depending on the text.
• Any errors, please shout!
• In the loco livery n/c means "not clear"

It being excel you can sort / search for key terms.

 

As you can see, I ploughed through the two GWR in the 1930s books.

 

David

Loco picture database.xlsx

Thanks thats really helpful, I will have a run through to standardise formats and incorporate it into the file.

 

I am half way through "Great Western Steam in the West Country", hopefully should have it and the more useful (to me!) GW steam '34 to '49 done this week.  I think I will try and take a couple of books with me each time I am away to record.  At any rate its better than sitting around my room watching rubbish TV.

[Clearwater]

Great idea. Whether tender type would merit a separate column in such a spreadsheet and class of train? Also whether foreign interlopers on GWR metals should sully such a spreadsheet - LNER locos, WDs or USATC etc. I'm getting carried away and over-complicating things I suspect!

I thought other companies should be represented hence the column for company as I presume there's some number overlap between the big 4. In any case, I'd wanted to capture inter regional workings. Tenders - id not done a column for those but had noted 'unusual' tenders in the notes column. Also I thought if I susbequently wanted to check say stars in the 1930s, it's easy to go back to the source quickly from the search

 

David

[The Fatadder]

Great idea. Whether tender type would merit a separate column in such a spreadsheet and class of train? Also whether foreign interlopers on GWR metals should sully such a spreadsheet - LNER locos, WDs or USATC etc. I'm getting carried away and over-complicating things I suspect!

Tender type is a good idea, wish I had thought about that earlier...

 

I will go through the 1940s images again and add the detail, at some stage I will re check the rest!  The issue is the more data included the less likely for it to be filled in properly....

At least if you know the loco you want to model its easy to find the photo references and then check the tenders (and inevitably find out it differs to the base model you have purchased...)

[County of Yorkshire]

_{Count me in! I am currently browsing Great Western Pictorial No.2 'The Hubback Collection' before bed over the last few days. Date range on images is around 1925 - 1948.}

 

_{May I recommend asking Andy Y for pinned status for this thread? Also, Fatadder, are you to keep the Books Covered list up to date in the top post?} 

 

_Cheers, 

 

_CoY

[The Fatadder]

That is the plan. I will update the listing in the morning....

[kandc_au]

May I suggest that the data base have a page just for books that are done then someone will know book abc was done so not waste time with that.

That way it is all kept in the same area together.

 

khris

[Stubby47]

It's also important to say which book you are about to do.

[Miss Prism]

I have made a holding page for this database project: http://gwr.org.uk/no-photo-database.html

 

That page currently carries David's (Clearwater) spreadsheet, because it has a sensible and reasonably comprehensive structure.

 

It has a tab called 'Books': this denotes 'books done': column A (intentionally blank I have now changed this to 'Contribution date', to give visibility on when things were added), column B 'Title', column C 'Author', and I have added a column D for 'Publisher'. It will be useful if other contributors align with that tab title and column order and notation.

 

The other (main) tab is called 'Pictures'. The column order and titling is:

 

- column A: (intentionally blank)

- column B: 'Loco' 

- column C: 'Class'

- column D: 'Company' (this entry is default 'GWR', but is useful for noting others, e.g absorbed companies)

- column E: 'Loco livery' ('n/c' indicates not clear)

- column F: 'Other locos' (this is intended for the numbers of other locos in the picture)

- column G: 'Location (plus line, if desired)'

- column H: 'Date' (for specific known dates, the format is dd/mm/yyyy - for other less specific dates, the format is Excel 'general')

- column I: 'Coach diagrams' (this is a useful placeholder for noting coach diagrams in the picture)

- column J: 'Book / journal title'

- column K: 'Page / picture ref' (of the book)

- column L: 'Notes' (freeform field, useful for e.g. tender or loco details) (Maybe tender warrants its own column?)

 

Again, it will be useful if we keep to this common format for spreadsheet contributions, which will help in combining different contributions.

 

All cell text is Calibri font, 11pt, which is I think Excel default. The file type is xlsx xls. No fancy conditional formating for cells or rows, or macros, please. I suggest we should have no cell linking between tabs, because future contributors might not spot what previous contributors have done in this respect. The server spreadsheet needs to be as 'vanilla' as possible.

 

Updating of spreadsheet - two methods are possible/feasible:

 

- download, update, and send back to me (via the website, or here);

- submit a new spreadsheet (via the website, or here), with structures aligning with the above, whose cell contents I can add to the server file.

 

There will be some administrative difficulties inherent in the first updating method (if multiple parties are attempting to update the same master file, for example). I perhaps need to consider some sort of change control mechanism, and will perhaps use tabsheet 3 of the spreadsheet as a means of carrying notifications of further proposed book contributions (Stubby's point), to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort.

 

Thoughts, please, on the viability of any of the above. To save contributors having to do retrospective work, it is important at this early stage we have a collective consensus on what columns we want, and the column order and titling. (I'm not sure we need the 'intentionally blank' initial column of the Photos tabsheet.)

[martinT]

Are people aware of Richard Hall's excellent 'Loco Finder' section of his 'Grindham' site at: http://www.grindham.co.uk . The 'Grindham Loco Finder' has a database of references to more than 7500 published photographs in about 70 books, taken at more than 1100 locations. The major coverage is of GWR territory. It doesn't give the sort of detail envisaged by this thread - no livery or tender details but it does give year & location. Because it is a database system various searches can be performed - photos for a given class, wheel arrangement, or in a specific county as well as the obvious loco number or name.